So TK isnt fast, and one of our fastest skaters. But someone keeps saying we arent a slow team, but just play slow

Something isnt adding up here
- bradster

TK to me is an enigma, because you can see how good of a player he is when he is moving his feet and generating plays, but for some reason he is not consistent!

Let's get a 3 point night out of G so he can move into 2nd all-time in franchise history in total points.

Not bad for a supposedly horrendous captain with no leadership skills.





Agree, you don’t know what you got till it’s gone.

Anyone that says this isn’t a slow team is kidding themselves. You can argue they play slow with their approach but they also aren’t fast skaters.
- ClaudeFather

Even Torts commented on that recently on ESPN, this Flyers team lacks foot speed, and its been that way for quite a while.

If you say so. Other opinions and simple comparison of skating speeds provide a different picture. He has always looked fast to me.

https://thehockeywriters....l-draft-prospect-profile/

And you can compare his times in the skills comp (speed test) in 2020 for yourself to historical records.

EDIT: Btw, Atinson was also selected for the skating speed contest in 2019. Placed 6th I see.
- PT21

It's not difficult to watch Konecny play and come to the realization that he is not one of the top speedsters in the NHL and therefore would not be placed in the category of a fast skater in the NHL. Same with Atkinson. Certainly not slow but not in the fast category either.

I can also come to the obvious conclusion that a skills competition is not actual game situations where the player is also carrying a puck.

If you have no speedsters, a bunch of average guys, and some real slow ones, that would make you one of the slower teams in the league.
- ClaudeFather

I think if you have a bunch of average guys, that would make you well, average.

21 Scott Laughton- 14 Sean Couturier- 11 Travis Konecny
48 Morgan Frost - 28 Claude Giroux-89 Cam Atkinson
71 Max Willman - 13 Kevin Hayes- 25 James van Riemsdyk
23 Oskar Lindblom - 38 Patrick Brown - 17 Zack MacEwen


What do we think this will look like when Farabee, Brassard and Allison return?


Discuss.

Also NBCsports says Ellis a possible return on Jan 1st.
- MBFlyerfan

I’d go with
Farabee-Couts-TK
G-Frost-Allison
JVR-Hayes-Atkinson
Lindblom-Laughton-Brassard

It's not difficult to watch Konecny play and come to the realization that he is not one of the top speedsters in the NHL and therefore would not be placed in the category of a fast skater in the NHL. Same with Atkinson. Certainly not slow but not in the fast category either.

I can also come to the obvious conclusion that a skills competition is not actual game situations where the player is also carrying a puck.

- MJL

I see what you did there, you changed from being fast to one of the top speedsters in the nhl....Good job sir. you just cant be wrong or make a mistake, so i'll leave it alone now.

TK to me is an enigma, because you can see how good of a player he is when he is moving his feet and generating plays, but for some reason he is not consistent!
- jd250

My speculation is that TK has had his wings clipped in the same way Ghost did. The insistence that players not take chances robs him of being who he is at his best at the early stage of his career.

This in turn comes from a non-risk taking mentality everywhere, for the fear of ending up being a "lottery team"., and trying to keep up appearances of being a contender, which they are not.

Further, this absence of foot speed and creativity leads in turn to the game plan you see in terms of the breakouts. Teams that have slow centers will have trouble using a center breakout in transition because the defenders are so much faster now. Thus, you will see the outlet passes angle towards the boards to go around them, which is what you see with us.

Just spitballing here...

The Flyers are an average skating team.
- MJL

Incorrect. Average would put us middle of the pack. We are not. Closer to if not at the bottom of the league.

My speculation is that TK has had his wings clipped in the same way Ghost did. The insistence that players not take chances robs him of being who he is at his best at the early stage of his career.

This in turn comes from a non-risk taking mentality everywhere, for the fear of ending up being a "lottery team"., and trying to keep up appearances of being a contender, which they are not.

Further, this absence of foot speed and creativity leads in turn to the game plan you see in terms of the breakouts. Teams that have slow centers will have trouble using a center breakout in transition because the defenders are so much faster now. Thus, you will see the outlet passes angle towards the boards to go around them, which is what you see with us.

Just spitballing here...
- PT21

How often you fall back on this phony idea that the Flyers fear being a lottery team is beyond ridiculous
What it comes down to is the previous coaches didn't trust the Flyers defenseman to move the puck up the middle of the ice. The Flyers failure to play within the structure of AV's strong side overload also led to a lack of puck support. The Flyers often are caught up in long shifts inside the defensive zone. This leads to rims and chip outs leading to more of a lack of possession.
Breakouts are about precision and puck support. You don't need fast centers to use a center breakout. Mike Richards, who was not a fast skater in his prime was really good in LA on center breakouts.
The Flyers fail to use schemes to generate speed on the attack. That combined with a lack of overall attack time, leads to less chances for a player like Konecny. The Flyers issues scoring are mostly about simply not having the puck enough and doing what it takes to enter the offensive zone with possession.

It's not difficult to watch Konecny play and come to the realization that he is not one of the top speedsters in the NHL and therefore would not be placed in the category of a fast skater in the NHL. Same with Atkinson. Certainly not slow but not in the fast category either.

I can also come to the obvious conclusion that a skills competition is not actual game situations where the player is also carrying a puck.

- MJL

How many guys in our roster would you say are above the NHL average in terms of being speedters? Who are they?

How many guys in our roster would you say are above the NHL average in terms of being speedters? Who are they?
- PT21

Three. Maybe 4.

Sanhiem Tk Atkinson and frost.

I think if you have a bunch of average guys, that would make you well, average.
- MJL

This is comical coming from you, on a linear line of teams overall speed the Flyers would fall towards the slow end. One of the slowest teams in the league. You can label it whatever you want.

Three. Maybe 4.

Sanhiem Tk Atkinson and frost.
- Peter Richards

He’s dead wrong, this team is one of the slowest teams in the league. We all watch the games and can see that.

Three. Maybe 4.

Sanhiem Tk Atkinson and frost.
- Peter Richards

might throw provy up there also

My speculation is that TK has had his wings clipped in the same way Ghost did. The insistence that players not take chances robs him of being who he is at his best at the early stage of his career.

This in turn comes from a non-risk taking mentality everywhere, for the fear of ending up being a "lottery team"., and trying to keep up appearances of being a contender, which they are not.

Further, this absence of foot speed and creativity leads in turn to the game plan you see in terms of the breakouts. Teams that have slow centers will have trouble using a center breakout in transition because the defenders are so much faster now. Thus, you will see the outlet passes angle towards the boards to go around them, which is what you see with us.

Just spitballing here...
- PT21

I think the Flyers do not have foot speed because they did not value foot speed. The Flyers IMO were behind the eight ball in terms of where the league was going and slow to change what they valued. The Flyers for too long valued size and 200 foot players over fast players with high skill. You saw it all over the place in their draft; while teams like Chicago and Tampa were not afraid to draft smaller players like DeBrincat and Point respectfully, the Flyers were drafting bigger players with different skills. Even in free agency, the Flyers sign JVR and Hayes (two slow players with size and responsible defensively) while the Rangers are signing players like Panarin. So to me it has been a flaw in organizational philosophy for an awful long time, however I have noticed changes over the past couple of drafts. We'll see if this continues ....

He’s dead wrong, this team is one of the slowest teams in the league. We all watch the games and can see that.
- ClaudeFather

Agree. Notice the back pedaling.

might throw provy up there also
- bradster

Right. The bigger question is how many average and then below average skaters we have.

Devils have an 8 game losing streak sandwiched around two curb stompings of the Flyers. Maybe try beating them tonight.
- PLindbergh31

My lord. How bad is that?

This is comical coming from you, on a linear line of teams overall speed the Flyers would fall towards the slow end. One of the slowest teams in the league. You can label it whatever you want.
- ClaudeFather

You failed to explain what was comical in calling a team with a bunch of average guys, average. You can label it whatever you want. I consider the Flyers an average skating team. I think their issue is far more about how they play and how they fail to generate any speed in their play. They could definitely use some more speed in the lineup just like any team could. Especially on the back end.

Right. The bigger question is how many average and then below average skaters we have.
- Peter Richards

A couple swap outs and we arent that slow. Frost won fastest skater at AHL all star game. Allison is pretty quick..N. Cates and Lacyznski arent slow...Forrestor was improving his speed...Destroyer moves well.

We will get there...we just had some development bumps with injuries to Allisson, Tanner and Forrestor. Then I doubt Flyer leadership expected N. Cates was going to stay in school for another year.

Not saying the flyers foot speed in general is terrific, but to choose Atkinson and Konecny as your examples might be a bit of a reach.

Certainly seen em both a ton in person from up high and I can promise you they both have good wheels. Cam on the pk has used it on the pk especially.

Neither are McD, but who is…

Cam and Ks speed would be the least of anyone’s worries.

How often you fall back on this phony idea that the Flyers fear being a lottery team is beyond ridiculous
What it comes down to is the previous coaches didn't trust the Flyers defenseman to move the puck up the middle of the ice. The Flyers failure to play within the structure of AV's strong side overload also led to a lack of puck support. The Flyers often are caught up in long shifts inside the defensive zone. This leads to rims and chip outs leading to more of a lack of possession.
Breakouts are about precision and puck support. You don't need fast centers to use a center breakout. Mike Richards, who was not a fast skater in his prime was really good in LA on center breakouts.
The Flyers fail to use schemes to generate speed on the attack. That combined with a lack of overall attack time, leads to less chances for a player like Konecny. The Flyers issues scoring are mostly about simply not having the puck enough and doing what it takes to enter the offensive zone with possession.
- MJL

The fear of being a lottery team is the Flyers worst nightmare. It shows in the way they so very hastily righted ship after the 06 season, signing a bunch of ill fitting FA/trade parts. It shows in the moves they made this past season in response to what happened last season. It shows why they would never even entertain trading very good players like Giroux/Couturier in their primes, even if it better positions them to make a run years later, because of what that current hole would mean (chance of a debacle of a season).

You pulled Richards out of your butt. He played mostly checking line center in LA. They played a heavy, possession game with arguable the greatest defender in recent years in terms of ability to make that first pass in Doughty. That style of play, btw, is rapidly going out of vogue.

You cannot enter the offensive zone with possession if you neither have the speed, nor the acceleration, nor the threat of lateral shiftiness (I exempt Hayes from the last part when he is in peak form). What are the defenders who are waiting for you gonna do? Just let you blow by them? No: they will be totally unscared, and come right up and take away your space and call your bluff.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

I think the Flyers do not have foot speed because they did not value foot speed. The Flyers IMO were behind the eight ball in terms of where the league was going and slow to change what they valued. The Flyers for too long valued size and 200 foot players over fast players with high skill. You saw it all over the place in their draft; while teams like Chicago and Tampa were not afraid to draft smaller players like DeBrincat and Point respectfully, the Flyers were drafting bigger players with different skills. Even in free agency, the Flyers sign JVR and Hayes (two slow players with size and responsible defensively) while the Rangers are signing players like Panarin. So to me it has been a flaw in organizational philosophy for an awful long time, however I have noticed changes over the past couple of drafts. We'll see if this continues ....
- jd250

The hextall era totally valued 200ft players, good at a lot, not great at anything

You failed to explain what was comical in calling a team with a bunch of average guys, average. You can label it whatever you want. I consider the Flyers an average skating team. I think their issue is far more about how they play and how they fail to generate any speed in their play. They could definitely use some more speed in the lineup just like any team could. Especially on the back end.
- MJL

In comparison to the rest of the league they are slow, what are you not understanding? I absolutely agree that they do themselves no favors the way they play but to sit here and say they are an average skating team is just false. They are a slow team compared to the rest of the league.