I think the Flyers do not have foot speed because they did not value foot speed. The Flyers IMO were behind the eight ball in terms of where the league was going and slow to change what they valued. The Flyers for too long valued size and 200 foot players over fast players with high skill. You saw it all over the place in their draft; while teams like Chicago and Tampa were not afraid to draft smaller players like DeBrincat and Point respectfully, the Flyers were drafting bigger players with different skills. Even in free agency, the Flyers sign JVR and Hayes (two slow players with size and responsible defensively) while the Rangers are signing players like Panarin. So to me it has been a flaw in organizational philosophy for an awful long time, however I have noticed changes over the past couple of drafts. We'll see if this continues ....
- jd250

I would say the flyers in the mid 2000s did not value speed, but those days are over. At least under Fletcher.

The puck moves faster than feet anyways. They just need good players.

You failed to explain what was comical in calling a team with a bunch of average guys, average. You can label it whatever you want. I consider the Flyers an average skating team. I think their issue is far more about how they play and how they fail to generate any speed in their play. They could definitely use some more speed in the lineup just like any team could. Especially on the back end.
- MJL

I am still waiting for the guys you would consider above average in speed. I wouldn't mind seeing the guys you consider below average too.

Not saying the flyers foot speed in general is terrific, but to choose Atkinson and Konecny as your examples might be a bit of a reach.

Certainly seen em both a ton in person from up high and I can promise you they both have good wheels. Cam on the pk has used it on the pk especially.

Neither are McD, but who is…

Cam and Ks speed would be the least of anyone’s worries.
- Joe Nardone

The first few times I watched TK live I was startled that he was a Flyer. He just looked so out of character.

The first few times I watched TK live I was startled that he was a Flyer. He just looked so out of character.
- PT21

Funny thought the same thing. He does something’s we are used to as a flyer but his speed was eye opening.

Also here is a little something from the archives.

https://www.bing.com/vide...5982101A877E37C57C0&q=Cam Atkinson speed&shtp=GetUrl&shid=482b748c-341c-4cdb-9afd-a47e4a2d41fc&shtk=QXRraW5zb24gc2hvd3Mgb2ZmIHNwZWVkLCBoYW5kcw%3D%3D&shdk=Q2FtIEF0a2luc29uIHNwZWVkcyBpbnRvIHRoZSB6b25lIGFuZCBtYWtlcyBhIG5pZnR5IG1vdmUgYnkgQ2FsdmluIFBpY2thcmQgdG8gc2NvcmUgaGlzIHNlY29uZCBnb2FsIG9mIHRoZSAybmQgcGVyaW9k&shhk=byIXySXDmmK%2F5RH9xfqZ3csuaWQgD%2FJ496hwYOudF94%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OVP.yD4glHzGVckrAzgkueKiPAEsCp

The hextall era totally valued 200ft players, good at a lot, not great at anything
- bradster

Fletcher said as much in his 11/30 press conference, where he sited the best PPs have highly skilled players that can score from the flanks, and admitted that the Flyers don't have those types of players. Foerster was drafted by the Flyers 2 years ago because he was noted as having the best pure shot in his draft class, this is no small coincidence and IMO clearly demonstrates an organizational shift in philosophy and admission to not having what it needed to be successful. This past draft, Tuomaala was drafted because as elite prospects puts it "Tuomaala’s game is all about speed and shooting,", also demonstrating the shift in philosophy. We all see it and we all lament over how big and slow the Flyers look out there. I mean against Colorado during the game, the Colorado players looked like speed boats while the Flyers' players looked like ocean liners, it was actually comical to watch. The good news is I see the org showing signs of changing with Fletcher, and that is why I still believe in him.

21 Scott Laughton- 14 Sean Couturier- 11 Travis Konecny
48 Morgan Frost - 28 Claude Giroux-89 Cam Atkinson
71 Max Willman - 13 Kevin Hayes- 25 James van Riemsdyk
23 Oskar Lindblom - 38 Patrick Brown - 17 Zack MacEwen


What do we think this will look like when Farabee, Brassard and Allison return?


Discuss.

They also speculate he will be re-injured by January 8th

Also NBCsports says Ellis a possible return on Jan 1st.
- MBFlyerfan

Funny thought the same thing. He does something’s we are used to as a flyer but his speed was eye opening.

Also here is a little something from the archives.

https://www.bing.com/vide...5982101A877E37C57C0&q=Cam Atkinson speed&shtp=GetUrl&shid=482b748c-341c-4cdb-9afd-a47e4a2d41fc&shtk=QXRraW5zb24gc2hvd3Mgb2ZmIHNwZWVkLCBoYW5kcw%3D%3D&shdk=Q2FtIEF0a2luc29uIHNwZWVkcyBpbnRvIHRoZSB6b25lIGFuZCBtYWtlcyBhIG5pZnR5IG1vdmUgYnkgQ2FsdmluIFBpY2thcmQgdG8gc2NvcmUgaGlzIHNlY29uZCBnb2FsIG9mIHRoZSAybmQgcGVyaW9k&shhk=byIXySXDmmK%2F5RH9xfqZ3csuaWQgD%2FJ496hwYOudF94%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OVP.yD4glHzGVckrAzgkueKiPAEsCp
- Joe Nardone

Nice.

It helps that the guy "defending" him is one Robert Hagg though.

21 Scott Laughton- 14 Sean Couturier- 11 Travis Konecny
48 Morgan Frost - 28 Claude Giroux-89 Cam Atkinson
71 Max Willman - 13 Kevin Hayes- 25 James van Riemsdyk
23 Oskar Lindblom - 38 Patrick Brown - 17 Zack MacEwen


What do we think this will look like when Farabee, Brassard and Allison return?


Discuss.

Also NBCsports says Ellis a possible return on Jan 1st.
- MBFlyerfan

Did they say January 2022 or 2023? He is the Flyers Andrew Bynum

Fletcher said as much in his 11/30 press conference, where he sited the best PPs have highly skilled players that can score from the flanks, and admitted that the Flyers don't have those types of players. Foerster was drafted by the Flyers 2 years ago because he was noted as having the best pure shot in his draft class, this is no small coincidence and IMO clearly demonstrates an organizational shift in philosophy and admission to not having what it needed to be successful. This past draft, Tuomaala was drafted because as elite prospects puts it "Tuomaala’s game is all about speed and shooting,", also demonstrating the shift in philosophy. We all see it and we all lament over how big and slow the Flyers look out there. I mean against Colorado during the game, the Colorado players looked like speed boats while the Flyers' players looked like ocean liners, it was actually comical to watch. Well, I see the org showing signs of changing with Fletcher, and that is why I still believe in him.
- jd250

Its weird to see because usually slower teams are pretty physical. Now we are much more physical than last year, but still behind many of the physical teams. Last year was uncanny how passive we were. Chuck addressed that part of it

The first few times I watched TK live I was startled that he was a Flyer. He just looked so out of character.
- PT21

I hate watching Konency play. I don’t at all respect talking poop to much bigger players as the refs protect him. The perfect example is when he gave that sucker punch to Foote. Like grow up man.

The fear of being a lottery team is the Flyers worst nightmare. It shows in the way they so very hastily righted ship after the 06 season, signing a bunch of ill fitting FA/trade parts. It shows in the moves they made this past season in response to what happened last season. It shows why they would never even entertain trading very good players like Giroux/Couturier in their primes, even if it better positions them to make a run years later, because of what that current hole would mean (chance of a debacle of a season).

You pulled Richards out of your butt. He played mostly checking line center in LA. They played a heavy, possession game with arguable the greatest defender in recent years in terms of ability to make that first pass in Doughty. That style of play, btw, is rapidly going out of vogue.

You cannot enter the offensive zone with possession if you neither have the speed, nor the acceleration, nor the threat of lateral shiftiness (I exempt Hayes from the last part when he is in peak form). What are the defenders who are waiting for you gonna do? Just let you blow by them? No: they will be totally unscared, and come right up and take away your space and call your bluff.

That's the way I see it, anyway.
- PT21

I agree with this point, zone entries are a lot easier when the opposing defense fears the forwards coming at them. There is really no one on the Flyers for opposing players to fear in terms of getting burned.

I hate watching Konency play. I don’t at all respect talking poop to much bigger players as the refs protect him. The perfect example is when he gave that sucker punch to Foote. Like grow up man.
- SuperSchennBros

He seems very confused who he wants to be. High skill, smallish players are usually not agitators, unless you are talking Brad Marchand.

I’d rather have Macewen in than Lindblom
- ClaudeFather

Unfortunately true. I will always cheer for Lindblom because I have a lot of respect for a fighter like him. But he hasn't been good this season. I'm not opposed to putting him on a line with more talent to try and get him going. If that doesn't work, might be time to sit him.

He seems very confused who he wants to be. High skill, smallish players are usually not agitators, unless you are talking Brad Marchand.
- PT21

Garland is the same way, TK is at his best when he’s physically and emotionally involved in the game.

Its weird to see because usually slower teams are pretty physical. Now we are much more physical than last year, but still behind many of the physical teams. Last year was uncanny how passive we were. Chuck addressed that part of it
- bradster

Fletcher certainly tried to with acquiring Risto, signing Thompson and picking up MacEwen off waivers. I think he also hoped Morin would be playing as the 7th defenseman.

He seems very confused who he wants to be. High skill, smallish players are usually not agitators, unless you are talking Brad Marchand.
- PT21

Yes, the thing with Marchand is he is such a strong player, very balanced and low to the ice, and is very strong on the puck. TK has better speed than Marchand and is on par with skill and vision, but he lacks the balance and strength on the puck that Marchand has, and thus does now win as many battles and keep puck possession.

Yes, the thing with Marchand is he is such a strong player, very balanced and low to the ice, and is very strong on the puck. TK has better speed than Marchand and is on par with skill and vision, but he lacks the balance and strength on the puck that Marchand has, and thus does now win as many battles and keep puck possession.
- jd250

Marchand is light years ahead of TK, Marchand brings it every single night, TK is an inconsistent player

I agree with this point, zone entries are a lot easier when the opposing defense fears the forwards coming at them. There is really no one on the Flyers for opposing players to fear in terms of getting burned.
- jd250

Travis needs to do this more, he has started doing it a bit, and looks pretty effective coming in with speed, but then he doesnt know what to do with it after gaining the zone....or hes shocked it worked lol

Garland is the same way, TK is at his best when he’s physically and emotionally involved in the game.
- ClaudeFather

I was referring to the taunting stuff. The mocking of a guy's teeth and so on. Not rugged play.

TK's play actually is not that rugged. He can be knocked around pretty easily. He loses most board battles.

Its not the size either. Point is a guy who is pretty small, but rarely loses board battles. TK just doesn't have that lower body strength and is not the strong on his skates.

Marchand is light years ahead of TK, Marchand brings it every single night, TK is an inconsistent player
- ClaudeFather

100%

I was referring to the taunting stuff. The mocking of a guy's teeth and so on. Not rugged play.

TK's play actually is not that rugged. He can be knocked around pretty easily. He loses most board battles.

Its not the size either. Point is a guy who is pretty small, but rarely loses board battles. TK just doesn't have that lower body strength and is not the strong on his skates.
- PT21

That extra nonsense is what some guys thrive off of though. TK certainly gets his nose dirty as well

Yes, the thing with Marchand is he is such a strong player, very balanced and low to the ice, and is very strong on the puck. TK has better speed than Marchand and is on par with skill and vision, but he lacks the balance and strength on the puck that Marchand has, and thus does now win as many battles and keep puck possession.
- jd250

Eh man. I disagree. Marchand has elite hands in tight, and elite ability to read plays. I haven't seen either from TK.

That extra nonsense is what some guys thrive off of though. TK certainly gets his nose dirty as well
- ClaudeFather

Well, he did a lot of that in 2020 playoffs, and was arguably our worst forward.

Well, he did a lot of that in 2020 playoffs, and was arguably our worst forward.
- PT21

Ok

The fear of being a lottery team is the Flyers worst nightmare. It shows in the way they so very hastily righted ship after the 06 season, signing a bunch of ill fitting FA/trade parts. It shows in the moves they made this past season in response to what happened last season. It shows why they would never even entertain trading very good players like Giroux/Couturier in their primes, even if it better positions them to make a run years later, because of what that current hole would mean (chance of a debacle of a season).



You pulled Richards out of your butt. He played mostly checking line center in LA. They played a heavy, possession game with arguable the greatest defender in recent years in terms of ability to make that first pass in Doughty. That style of play, btw, is rapidly going out of vogue.

You cannot enter the offensive zone with possession if you neither have the speed, nor the acceleration, nor the threat of lateral shiftiness (I exempt Hayes from the last part when he is in peak form). What are the defenders who are waiting for you gonna do? Just let you blow by them? No: they will be totally unscared, and come right up and take away your space and call your bluff.

That's the way I see it, anyway.
- PT21

This is just your fantasy premise. It's misguided. The Flyers have always been a franchise that goes for it and tries to win. They don't tank. They had cap space and went after Timonen and Hartnell. It's not fear of being a lottery team. It's the philosophy of always trying to win.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...erGame&page=0&pageSize=50

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...erGame&page=0&pageSize=50

You have to generate speed with your systems and schemes. The Flyers don't do that well.