Chunk, as a interim GM I'm fine with KD as the permanent head decision maker on the hockey side, no no no. If Rocky made him permanent GM with no over boss no, he's too inexperienced.......... If the new head of hockey ops decides KD is fine as GM with his mentorship, ok.

Temporarily KD is fine.

IMO he needs to be given credit for King coming up, how Crawford has taken on much of the head coaching duties and the subsequent 10-6 record and the 180 the club has done on ice. Maybe he didn't make those decisions alone he was certainly a part of them.
- Mr Ricochet

I guess this is where I don't understand. He's not good enough if Rocky, or Danny say so, but he is if a new head of Hockey ops does? He's either good enough or he isn't. He's going to be the same guy regardless no?

Or is it simply the justification that someone else made that determination and not Rocky/Danny?

I guess this is where I don't understand. He's not good enough if Rocky, or Danny say so, but he is if a new head of Hockey ops does? He's either good enough or he isn't. He's going to be the same guy regardless no?

Or is it simply the justification that someone else made that determination and not Rocky/Danny?
- Chunk

Not trying to speak for Rico, and I hope he will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Rico would trust the judgement of the new hockey ops President hired by the search firm before he would trust the judgement of a Wirtz. He (Rico) is comfortable with KD if he gets the stamp of approval from the person not yet installed.

Stop yourself! Bettman doesn't really want a Canadian team to win a Cup. You wacky Canadians will still support the league anyway. See? But Bettman can't make it look too obvious, so Matthews goes to Canada, but signs a shorter term contract. He'll be in the US to win his Cups.

I can't believe you need this spelled out.
- mohel

I think I may finally understand…. 🤪

You have a unique ability to change conspiracy theories on the fly as soon as your last one has been disproven. And all the while you depend on me to correct your illogical premise so I’m constantly on the defensive replying to your changing conspiracies.

But I’ll try … if Bettman is trying to help a Canadian team by ensuring Matthews plays for Toronto, why did he let Crosby play for an American team?
- paulr

I never said that Bettman was trying to help a Canadian team. That was something you came up with.

Not trying to speak for Rico, and I hope he will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Rico would trust the judgement of the new hockey ops President hired by the search firm before he would trust the judgement of a Wirtz. He (Rico) is comfortable with KD if he gets the stamp of approval from the person not yet installed.
- mohel

Fair.

Fair.
- Chunk

To middling

And every other sports franchise in NA has faced the same challenge. I haven't heard of others being behind on their taxes and bills. Or not having a place to play.
- scottak

One issue is the value of the club. The other is the cash flow of the club. A third issue is debt load (maybe self limited).

I guess this is where I don't understand. He's not good enough if Rocky, or Danny say so, but he is if a new head of Hockey ops does? He's either good enough or he isn't. He's going to be the same guy regardless no?

Or is it simply the justification that someone else made that determination and not Rocky/Danny?
- Chunk

Justification? Call it anything you'd like and I thought I've been pretty clear the last few weeks. I personally do not want anyone involved with the franchise who's been a decision maker the last 5 yrs while the team did not make the playoffs while emptying the prospect cupboard at the same time (complete failure) to make the call on who runs the hockey ops side. Anyone who saw fit to give the architect, StanBow, of the last 5 yrs an extension and PROMOTION this last offseason should understand they don't know jack and find someone who does.

Right or wrong I'm beyond excited Rocky and Son have the fortitude to hire a consulting firm to scrub the organIzation to make recommendations as well as talk to hockey execs/GM's/FO people they already know to hire the top hockey ops mind and get the hell outa his way.

Not trying to speak for Rico, and I hope he will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Rico would trust the judgement of the new hockey ops President hired by the search firm before he would trust the judgement of a Wirtz. He (Rico) is comfortable with KD if he gets the stamp of approval from the person not yet installed.
- mohel

Right on and I feel safe saying the vast majority would agree with that. Most every owner knows he needs to hire someone who's expertise is hockey and let him fill out the organIzation with hockey people.

Not trying to speak for Rico, and I hope he will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Rico would trust the judgement of the new hockey ops President hired by the search firm before he would trust the judgement of a Wirtz. He (Rico) is comfortable with KD if he gets the stamp of approval from the person not yet installed.
- mohel

I don’t think the search firm is responsible for hiring anyone. The Hawks will have a list of candidates and the search firm will get that list and beat the bushes and add other candidates that were not on the Hawks’ list. The entire list will be vetted and shrunk down. Management and the firm will work through the list and go through the interview process with a few finalists. The Wirtz’s ultimately select and hire their man (or woman).

Right on and I feel safe saying the vast majority would agree with that. Most every owner knows he needs to hire someone who's expertise is hockey and let him fill out the organIzation with hockey people.
- Mr Ricochet

Let me add this is the kind of topic a critical thinker like Sage would be of great help. Would love to hear his thoughts on that link ThedrumonMadison posted. Awesome listen with tons of info rarely discussed. https://open.spotify.com/...JR-okVSSmMx6d9_tjUNg&nd=1

In fact would like to hear anyone's thoughts on that podcast, "Reorganizing your organIzation".

Let me add this is the kind of topic a critical thinker like Sage would be of great help. Would love to hear his thoughts on that link ThedrumonMadison posted. Awesome listen with tons of info rarely discussed. https://open.spotify.com/...JR-okVSSmMx6d9_tjUNg&nd=1

In fact would like to hear anyone's thoughts on that podcast, "Reorganizing your organIzation".
- Mr Ricochet

Sage is on a HB mandated time out for a few months. Because there are some here with extremely thin skins and axes to grind.

If you believe that Evander Kane is reinventing himself into a quality teammate, would you trade Kubalik for him?
- Dieselhead

via GIPHY

Right on and I feel safe saying the vast majority would agree with that. Most every owner knows he needs to hire someone who's expertise is hockey and let him fill out the organIzation with hockey people.
- Mr Ricochet

Imo, you should feel safe if few agreed with you - your position is well thought out and reasonable. I happen to be a bit skeptical of hiring the soccer/basketball guy, but that's the way it goes.

Imo, you should feel safe if few agreed with you - your position is well thought out and reasonable. I happen to be a bit skeptical of hiring the soccer/basketball guy, but that's the way it goes.
- mohel

I‘ve seen cross promotion at the corporation level of a world known company I worked at for 35 years. When I first started they moved a manager from sales into the IT department I worked in. We couldn’t figure out what they we’re thinking but this manager worked out extremely well because a Manager isn’t there to understand or run the day to day activities, but instead to direct the department for the future. I’m not certain a non hockey person can’t be capable or running a hockey team. While not perfect McDonough is an example. Ideally whoever is hired has an extensive hockey background but I think a non hockey person can work.

Right on and I feel safe saying the vast majority would agree with that. Most every owner knows he needs to hire someone who's expertise is hockey and let him fill out the organIzation with hockey people.
- Mr Ricochet

Ultimately, it will come to Wirtz liquid assets being spent, again, to bring the Blackhawks back into Cup contention. And Rocky did that the first time when he took over after Bill. And I would bet a lot of my few liquid assets he will do it again. Case in point, his hiring the consultant some time ago now who is/will report/advise to the Blackhawks.
And I would love for it to happen with Kane and Toews still there, albeit now as elder skatesmen.

I‘ve seen cross promotion at the corporation level of a world known company I worked at for 35 years. When I first started they moved a manager from sales into the IT department I worked in. We couldn’t figure out what they we’re thinking but this manager worked out extremely well because a Manager isn’t there to understand or run the day to day activities, but instead to direct the department for the future. I’m not certain a non hockey person can’t be capable or running a hockey team. While not perfect McDonough is an example. Ideally whoever is hired has an extensive hockey background but I think a non hockey person can work.
- paulr

Agreed. To me, the Hawks are going to hire a hockey ops President, who will hire a hockey GM, who will hire scouts, etc. If not a hockey ops person at the head, that person still needs to hire a hockey GM. As Rico has pointed out, Wirtz has hired help to identify the top line hockey person. That is the key hire affecting the future prospects of the team. I am not sure how the soccer/basketball guy will be able to identify that person. I'm sure the consultant can help design the org chart, but knowing the right hockey person to hire at the top seems iffy to me. They can have a purdy org chart, but they're effed if they hire the wrong person.

I think the Sportsology hire is more of partner / sounding board to help Wirtz make the right decision & avoid making a mistake versus a search firm who provides a list and helps make a pick.

Additional investment and time looks to be the course vs the quick reaction/action like Vancouver.

Unfortunately going to take some time. Hopefully that means the future is up versus spinning wheels like the Bears.

Because it's the 10th biggest metropolitan area in the USA. Bigger than Boston, Detroit, MSP, SEA/TAC & Denver. And it's growing.

The problem hasn't been the location, it's been the team's ownership and management. Vegas seems to be doing quite nicely in a desert not too far north of Phoenix.
- scottak

The problem is that the arena is in Glendale, and the potential season ticket base is a million miles away in Scottsdale and Arcadia. It works fine for 8 Sunday afternoons, but it's a disaster for 41 random nights.

I do believe that if there was never a Coyotes team there, then there would be no Auston Matthews getting picked first in the draft, so it's not a total loss for the game. He would have focused on baseball or golf or tennis instead, given that's what the best athletes in the Valley usually focus on.

I think the Sportsology hire is more of partner / sounding board to help Wirtz make the right decision & avoid making a mistake versus a search firm who provides a list and helps make a pick.

Additional investment and time looks to be the course vs the quick reaction/action like Vancouver.

Unfortunately going to take some time. Hopefully that means the future is up versus spinning wheels like the Bears.
- TheDrumonMadison

I agree. This is a huge hire that they need to get right. So, I personally don't care about the time it takes. It is disconcerting to me that Rocky doesn't keep a continuous list of Hockey Ops President candidates and GM candidates. That's the main, perhaps only, hockey related function he has.

Agreed. To me, the Hawks are going to hire a hockey ops President, who will hire a hockey GM, who will hire scouts, etc. If not a hockey ops person at the head, that person still needs to hire a hockey GM. As Rico has pointed out, Wirtz has hired help to identify the top line hockey person. That is the key hire affecting the future prospects of the team. I am not sure how the soccer/basketball guy will be able to identify that person. I'm sure the consultant can help design the org chart, but knowing the right hockey person to hire at the top seems iffy to me. They can have a purdy org chart, but they're effed if they hire the wrong person.
- mohel

Lots of room for error everywhere regardless of who is hired. While a hockey guy in the Hockey Ops or President’s role makes lots of sense, one area concerns me. The guy is probably from the “old boys club” and he starts hiring his buddies. Someone without the hockey background can also hire a consultant(s) to help him find a GM. Once the GM is in place create a plan with certain milestones that must be achieved for the GM to keep his job. It then becomes in everyone’s interest to build a team to be competitive.

Agreed. To me, the Hawks are going to hire a hockey ops President, who will hire a hockey GM, who will hire scouts, etc. If not a hockey ops person at the head, that person still needs to hire a hockey GM. As Rico has pointed out, Wirtz has hired help to identify the top line hockey person. That is the key hire affecting the future prospects of the team. I am not sure how the soccer/basketball guy will be able to identify that person. I'm sure the consultant can help design the org chart, but knowing the right hockey person to hire at the top seems iffy to me. They can have a purdy org chart, but they're effed if they hire the wrong person.
- mohel

As I understood the podcast and Forde, the consultant, himself he will not make recommendations on who to hire as the hockey ops prez or GM per say but show the processes needed to do so. He analyzes an organIzation to identify weaknesses and teach the processes to fix them. Forde seemed to say he's very big on process and communication in an organIzation as top priorities.

He won't say, as I understood it, "Rocky we recommend John, Bob or Bill" he will teach the processes to identify John, Bob or Bill as qualified to fill a position. .......... As Paul posted, if I understand him correctly, that's a corporate structure kinda thing that has crossover success and isn't necessarily industry specific. Forde went on to say just hiring the #2 exec of the championship team doesn't mean it will translate.

But no, I don't think Rocky and Danny will hire a hockey ops prez that isn't a hockey guy.

I agree. This is a huge hire that they need to get right. So, I personally don't care about the time it takes. It is disconcerting to me that Rocky doesn't keep a continuous list of Hockey Ops President candidates and GM candidates. That's the main, perhaps only, hockey related function he has.
- mohel

Interesting you mention this. Forde said one of the processes of an owner is to have lists of sports side prez' and GM's for 2 yrs, 4 yrs and 6 yrs down the line. Always identifying talent that is developed, developing and keep a list of those people for future hires.

Again, Forde teaches the processes of running an organIzation not necessarily making recommendations on who to specifically to hire. Kinda like teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish to eat.

Interesting you mention this. Forde said one of the processes of an owner is to have lists of sports side prez' and GM's for 2 yrs, 4 yrs and 6 yrs down the line. Always identifying talent that is developed, developing and keep a list of those people for future hires.

Again, Forde teaches the processes of running an organIzation not necessarily making recommendations on who to specifically to hire. Kinda like teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish to eat.
- Mr Ricochet

I should have used "if" Rocky didn't keep such lists....

But, man, if he didn't..... That is Management 101. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mccaskey's didn't keep such lists, but I would be surprised if Rocky didn't.

I just hope they end up with a top notch front office.

Justification? Call it anything you'd like and I thought I've been pretty clear the last few weeks. I personally do not want anyone involved with the franchise who's been a decision maker the last 5 yrs while the team did not make the playoffs while emptying the prospect cupboard at the same time (complete failure) to make the call on who runs the hockey ops side. Anyone who saw fit to give the architect, StanBow, of the last 5 yrs an extension and PROMOTION this last offseason should understand they don't know jack and find someone who does.

Right or wrong I'm beyond excited Rocky and Son have the fortitude to hire a consulting firm to scrub the organIzation to make recommendations as well as talk to hockey execs/GM's/FO people they already know to hire the top hockey ops mind and get the hell outa his way.
- Mr Ricochet

No harm meant. I used justification in that it would be someone with a keener eye than the current management making the decision.

I get what you are saying. The scary thing is, if not for the Beach scenario, IMO Stan would still be the GM. I'm sure JC would be gone by now, but I think he would still be calling the shots.