- Bendecko

StepfordSam, a hansom' lad.

Presumably, his ailments were not dire enough to sit him or risk aggravation by playing him, but dire enough to slow him. He is being paid to do a job, and if he can do it better than the alternative, most teams would do what we did (play him).

I don't why this is so heinous on the part of the Flyers.
- PT21

If that was true, then why are the sitting him now due to those injuries. If they're worse enough to give him the designation of week to week, then they certainly were when they first occurred also. Now if this is something new, then there is no issue.

Ristolainen at net front is a gimmick. They should give Ristolainen some time on the point. He has a good shot.
- MJL

Agreed. Boston used Chara as a net front. We used Pronger as a net front. By doing this, both teams took away from both hall of famer’s strengths. Two of the hardest point shots maybe ever!

Openings have to be created. You create that with puck movement and offensive threats from all sides. In order to free up a slot shot, you have to make the PK players move and challenge from all angles. There is no conscious plan to go away from using the slot shot. What does having no plan tell you?
- MJL

Absolutely correct. The problem is not personal or systems it is strictly lack of puck movement. PP’s with lesser talent operate more efficiently because they move the puck. Why doesn’t our PP work? Our “guy/PP quarterback” hangs onto the puck wayyyy to long every PP killing any momentum allowing the PK’ers the ability to stand still. Easy to defend

StepfordSam, a hansom' lad.
- PT21

It's Brent Rambo. Now the Engineering Director, AR / VR at Facebook:
https://www.unilad.co.uk/...if-now-works-at-facebook/

Depends if opinion is predicated on watching games and using ones hockey IQ, experience and overall feel of the game. Also helps to see these players in person at least once in a while.

I will say this site has alotta guys (not thinking of anyone in particular) that start out a post with, “I did not see the game last night.” It’s totally cool if you did not see the game and want to chat about it still, but some will do that and then argue with you in circular fashion about a player because of an analytic that was completely irrelevant on that night.

I’m thinking, well I watched the game from my seats and sometimes even watched the replay and I gotta guy arguing with me about a player and the guy did not even watch the damn game. Why bother..
- Joe Nardone

I agree that seeing a game provides insight that stats often may miss. For example, MBFF said the other day that off the play, Risto goes anging for a hit and gets out of position. 10-12 years back, there was a dude called BradleyC4 here. He said that Dnny Briere starts to edge up ice not just before we got possession in our zone, but even in anticipation. Next few games, I watchd Danny for that, and he did. Totally disinterested and lolling around in defensive coverage and then, right when the puck even becomes a 50-50 play, would suddenly become more energeized than Galvani's frog and start to move towards center ice. Would look funny a few times when we did not end up getting possession. Like our center is not among the 8 players closest to puck.

Stats are only accurate over a large sample. SIngle game HD chances foe example, or +/-, are not particularly informative without context. They may be totally skwed because of something unrelated to the player or random. Corsi however, given it is drawn over 20-30 odd shifts, would be more informative. It is useful because you may get caught up in the game, or you may not notice these things because they aggregate so much info across the entire game. We remember highlights, not accumulations.

Over time though, even things like what MBFF and BradleyC4 suggested would start to show up.

I guess what I am saying is, viewing and stats are complementary, not competitors.

I disagree with Fletcher. It should not be a personnel excuse. You can only make that excuse if the opposing goalie is making save after save. Flyers have the personnel—like JVR in the bumper. They don’t even try some things like Risto at net front. At most times they don’t use the personnel effectively.
- NC Flyers Fan

Well, there is a high correlation between skill of forwards and effective pp. Look at Edmonton. Boston. Tampa. Not 1:1 but high.

And teams that do well with "team play" rather than individual talent often end up getting stifled during playoffs. Like Blues, for example.

I could be a tad off with these comments. Not too much though.

Coots getting hurt is the best thing to happen to this team long term. Pack it up and sell
- Just5

Indeed. Morbid but true.

It's Brent Rambo. Now the Engineering Director, AR / VR at Facebook:
https://www.unilad.co.uk/...if-now-works-at-facebook/
- Bendecko

Probably a loser, and a racist piece of trash.

F|_|ck him!

And teams that do well with "team play" rather than individual talent often end up getting stifled during playoffs. Like Blues, for example.


- PT21

It's actually the opposite. Team play always trumps individual talent. If what you state was the case, Edmonton would be winning Cups. The one exception is goaltending.

If that was true, then why are the sitting him now due to those injuries. If they're worse enough to give him the designation of week to week, then they certainly were when they first occurred also. Now if this is something new, then there is no issue.
- MJL

How about a more harmless possubility: his ailments were not dire enough to sit him. They tried him out. Either he was more ineffective than they thought he would be, or the injuries did not heal/worsened more than they were expectd to.

Just spitballing here. I just don't see why this is such a smoking gun for the Flyers (dis)organization.

It's actually the opposite. Team play always trumps individual talent. If what you state was the case, Edmonton would be winning Cups. The one exception is goaltending.
- MJL

PP! We are talking about effectiveness of PP!

These weird lapses of inability to follow logical arguments is why I hold you in lower esteem than many other guys do here.

How about a more harmless possubility: his ailments were not dire enough to sit him. They tried him out. Either he was more ineffective than they thought he would be, or the injuries did not heal/worsened more than they were expectd to.

Just spitballing here. I just don't see why this is such a smoking gun for the Flyers (dis)organization.
- PT21

Again, if it's the same ailment that is keeping him out now, then they obviously made the wrong decision. If they had sat him when they first occurred. He may have been past it by now. Also if it's deemed that a player can't make it worse by playing, and that's why he continued to play. If it was in fact made worse, then that's another bad decision.

Well, there is a high correlation between skill of forwards and effective pp. Look at Edmonton. Boston. Tampa. Not 1:1 but high.

And teams that do well with "team play" rather than individual talent often end up getting stifled during playoffs. Like Blues, for example.

I could be a tad off with these comments. Not too much though.
- PT21

It is a “tad” off. My basic point is that the Flyers do have PP skill that is currently not showing because of poor usage, planning and it remains to be seen if they could then execute.

PP! We are talking about effectiveness of PP!

These weird lapses of inability to follow logical arguments is why I hold you in lower esteem than many other guys do here.
- PT21

Doesn't matter what man power the situation is. Your point is still incorrect in my opinion. It applies across the board. You don't set the parameters for conversation.

I don't care what esteem you hold me at.

It is a “tad” off. My basic point is that the Flyers do have PP skill that is currently not showing because of poor usage, planning and it remains to be seen if they could then execute.
- NC Flyers Fan

I agree. The perfect example is with Giroux. He has been a fantastic PP forward in his career. All of a sudden he doesn't know what to do with the puck? Think back to when the Flyers PP was tops in the league and all the options they had. How do you explain that the Caps PP with the all time NHL PP goal scorer sits in the bottom of the league in PP% with Ovechkin. If it was just about individual talent.

So I'm watching the Sharks cycle last night. My question is, how do other teams know to cut everything we do off along the wall but we're not picking up on it and letting other teams have their way with us?

The rope JvR gets is so tiny. Obviously not a perfect player. Obviously not a speedster. The guy just came off a two goal game and working hard and all that. By the third period of this game, JvR is removed from the Giroux line to play with Willman and Hayes.

The 5 on 3 PP in the third was so sad to watch. One thing coaching has gotten away from since Peter Laviolette is positioning, working the time the strength of a players ability and "handedness". I'll explain. Peter Laviolette installed the umbrella PP formate for us. On a ream that had Danny Briere and Jagr on it, Lavy put those guys aside and strictly went with Giroux, Timonen, Voracek, Hartnell and Simmonds. Where each man was positioned and what hand they were was important. It seems like these new coaches, just throw guys out there without a plan and expect things to fall into place.

Has Atkinson and Giroux done anything together in OT that would tell any of us they're awesome together? I'm also pretty sure a Ghost stole the puck from Sanheim after a Giroux faceoff win in the offensive zone.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree with your #3 paragraph regarding the PP.

In OT, was it Couture that pressured Sanheim? Anyway, he didn’t steal it. Sanheim made a mistake. He should have kept puck possession and skated deeper into the offensive zone and look for opportunities, G was covering the middle.

I agree. The perfect example is with Giroux. He has been a fantastic PP forward in his career. All of a sudden he doesn't know what to do with the puck? Think back to when the Flyers PP was tops in the league and all the options they had. How do you explain that the Caps PP with the all time NHL PP goal scorer sits in the bottom of the league in PP% with Ovechkin. If it was just about individual talent.
- MJL

Yes, and obviously JVR isn’t a bad option in the bumper as evidenced by the goal vs the Kraken. They need to put the whole unit together with better thought.

Again, if it's the same ailment that is keeping him out now, then they obviously made the wrong decision. If they had sat him when they first occurred. He may have been past it by now. Also if it's deemed that a player can't make it worse by playing, and that's why he continued to play. If it was in fact made worse, then that's another bad decision.
- MJL

Well, we judge the effectiveness of decisions not from outcomes (which are tainted by the unexpected/randomness) but by whether the thought process behind it was rational.

Maybe they believed, correctly, that there was a 20% chance of reinjury/aggravation. Maybe that 20% chance happened.

I am not saying they were right or wrong. I am just saying: how do we know which it is?

Well, we judge the effectiveness of decisions not from outcomes (which are tainted by the unexpected/randomness) but by whether the thought process behind it was rational.

Maybe they believed, correctly, that there was a 20% chance of reinjury/aggravation. Maybe that 20% chance happened.

I am not saying they were right or wrong. I am just saying: how do we know which it is?
- PT21

Judging the effectiveness of decisions without considering the outcome is illogical and certainly not rational. The only caveat there is here is that we don't know if this is a new issue or involving the original issue or issues.

I agree with your #3 paragraph regarding the PP.

In OT, was it Couture that pressured Sanheim? Anyway, he didn’t steal it. Sanheim made a mistake. He should have kept puck possession and skated deeper into the offensive zone and look for opportunities, G was covering the middle.
- NC Flyers Fan

I didn’t say Couture stole the puck from Sanheim. I said a Ghost did.

It is a “tad” off. My basic point is that the Flyers do have PP skill that is currently not showing because of poor usage, planning and it remains to be seen if they could then execute.
- NC Flyers Fan

I just looked at some stats.

Take a look at top 5 teams past 5 years (those filters arbitrarily chosen) in pp

Regular season:



Post season:



Look at the degree of skilled personnel on those teams. You have to admit, the correlation is pretty strong, no?

Yes, and obviously JVR isn’t a bad option in the bumper as evidenced by the goal vs the Kraken. They need to put the whole unit together with better thought.
- NC Flyers Fan

I think about just before Simmonds was traded. A career net front presence and the best in the business at it. Pushed to the slot position for JvR to play the crease. Hakstol and his staff never caught on but Simmonds would have had a better fighting chance if things went the opposite way and our coaching staff had a clue. It’s about handedness, structure and working towards strength. The Flyers PP hasn’t had a structure in years. They just put. Whomever on the ice. In what world should Travis Konency act as a net front presence or play in the slot/bumper position? Konency is a half wall player. He’s good with the puck, he needs to be apart of moving it around.

I didn’t say Couture stole the puck from Sanheim. I said a Ghost did.
- SuperSchennBros

Ohhh 😮

I just looked at some stats.

Take a look at top 5 teams past 5 years (those filters arbitrarily chosen) in pp

Regular season:



Post season:



Look at the degree of skilled personnel on those teams. You have to admit, the correlation is pretty strong, no?
- PT21

You are totally missed my point and want to go off in another direction. No thanks.