Not to say they don’t have issues with zone entries, they do. When they have possession and pass around and no one but G shoots, it is really problematic. Screening the goalie feels like the first step to me and when you skip that nothing looks right. Maybe the shot openings aren’t their for the shooter. Havoc is not happening to put defenders out of position, etc.
- NC Flyers Fan

Again, what good does screening the goalie do if one, you can't establish the puck with possession in the offensive zone. Or don't create shooting or passing lanes with puck and player movement? You're right, havoc is not happening to move defenders out of position and take advantage of the man power. Net front is not the issue.

What’s the issue with using JVR at the bumper then (on a regular basis)? If it isn’t as important who is screening the goalie. Not to mention the handedness issue on tips.
- NC Flyers Fan

The bumper player is normally in the high slot area, not tight to the net. JVR has traditionally been a net front player. Not a bumper player.

What’s the issue with using JVR at the bumper then (on a regular basis)? If it isn’t as important who is screening the goalie. Not to mention the handedness issue on tips.
- NC Flyers Fan

I dunno. Thats above my hockey IQ grade, honestly. But just thinking out loud, JVR always had the hands, but he is not quick with his body. His bumper play is very different than say, Point's bumper play. You are not going to get the puck at your stick anymore, unless you have really good play at the top of your pp, which we don't have. You might get it in your vicinity, and you will have a split second to contort, twist, fall, adjust etc to get the puck towards the net and aim it while doing so.

Again, what good does screening the goalie do if one, you can't establish the puck with possession in the offensive zone. Or don't create shooting or passing lanes with puck and player movement? You're right, havoc is not happening to move defenders out of position and take advantage of the man power. Net front is not the issue.
- MJL

Exactement!

Again, what good does screening the goalie do if one, you can't establish the puck with possession in the offensive zone. Or don't create shooting or passing lanes with puck and player movement? You're right, havoc is not happening to move defenders out of position and take advantage of the man power. Net front is not the issue.
- MJL

If bumper is the issue, then steal that net front guy JVR and put him there.

Here is the statement that you made and it is a incorrect one in my opinion.
"
And teams that do well with "team play" rather than individual talent often end up getting stifled during playoffs."

The Flyers have players who have been and are still capable of high production on the PP.



The all time leading PP goal scorer in the league has arguably the most over exposed tendency in league history on the PP. If there weren't legitimate threats on the PP away from that player, then a team could slant their coverage and take him away. However when you have a team of effective PP players and many options and threats, they can't do that. Even with a known tendency, when you execute. move the puck well and create options. You create opportunities for players. You've inadvertently without even realizing it, argued against yourself and your previous statement that team play gets stifled.
- MJL

Well, look at pp of teams like Blues and Nashville, for example, in regular season and then see how they fare in post-season. I have casually noticed this trait for a while.


And no I didn't. You just got hopelessly confused about what I was saying, as usual.

The bumper player is normally in the high slot area, not tight to the net. JVR has traditionally been a net front player. Not a bumper player.
- MJL

Yes, but can the Flyers use him there?

Well, look at pp of teams like Blues and Nashville, for example, in regular season and then see how they fare in post-season. I have casually noticed this trait for a while.


And no I didn't. You just got hopelessly confused about what I was saying, as usual.
- PT21

It also happens a great deal the opposite way and you know this. In terms of regular season versus playoffs, what are you missing?

Yes you did. As I pointed out in detail why your point is simply wrong.

Bumper cars or bumper boats?

Yes, but can the Flyers use him there?
- NC Flyers Fan

Use him where? At the bumper spot? Sure they can but it's not his best spot in my opinion. Watching the Flyers PP, how many times do you see the Flyers pass the puck to a player who is not in a threatening posture? See a pass to a player in the slot that is not in a shooting position and is not even facing the net? This is coaching. It's similar to basketball and how offensively, you want a player in a triple threat position. To drive, pass or shoot. PK pressure is predicated on a read and react situation. If a player is not a threat, then you don't have to be as concerned or if he can't shoot or pass to beat you. It's an invitation to attack and pressure and take away time and space.

IMO the trigger man at the top has plagued this team for some time. Whether it was Pronger, Kimmo, streit, it was good. Ghost obviously had a couple great years then he could never find the net with his shot. Provy is just not cut out to be that guy and Yandle is cooked. Not the only issue but a major one.
- ClaudeFather

Totally agree that this is the main problem with the flyers pp right now. Provy is just ok. Yandle is a mistake waiting to happen.

Totally agree that this is the main problem with the flyers pp right now. Provy is just ok. Yandle is a mistake waiting to happen.
- Dkos

If they ever get Ellis back, he can help. He's pretty good moving the puck and getting the puck to the net.

If they ever get Ellis back, he can help. He's pretty good moving the puck and getting the puck to the net.
- MJL

Definitely. When Giroux is great at the pp is when he’s got that guy at the point to play off of.

Use him where? At the bumper spot? Sure they can but it's not his best spot in my opinion. Watching the Flyers PP, how many times do you see the Flyers pass the puck to a player who is not in a threatening posture? See a pass to a player in the slot that is not in a shooting position and is not even facing the net? This is coaching. It's similar to basketball and how offensively, you want a player in a triple threat position. To drive, pass or shoot. PK pressure is predicated on a read and react situation. If a player is not a threat, then you don't have to be as concerned or if he can't shoot or pass to beat you. It's an invitation to attack and pressure and take away time and space.
- MJL

Yes, for sure coaching. Maybe I am wrong to question the usage as well. The handedness issue makes G shoot less from his office. This PP issue has gone through several coaches and remained sporadic and mostly dysfunctional. They keep changing players in those roles especially the bumper and net front. It rarely makes sense or works and as soon as it does work, they change up the personnel. It’s infuriating.

Totally agree that this is the main problem with the flyers pp right now. Provy is just ok. Yandle is a mistake waiting to happen.
- Dkos

Likewise, as soon as Yandle was actually clicking with G, he was taken off that unit earlier this season.

Then get someone because Allison is not available. This has gone on far too long.
- NC Flyers Fan

If he was would be interesting to see him in the high slot with jvr net front. Would try Farabee there with his shot. But yeah the p p is the issue. Too much standing still. Need to move to create the gaps. Find the soft spots. Not too many can cover the front like simmonds used too. Make the adjustment.

It also happens a great deal the opposite way and you know this. In terms of regular season versus playoffs, what are you missing?

- MJL

It happens much more one way than the other. Probabilities.

It is counter-intuitive. Why should pp performance, which is much more structured, be so correlated with ES performance, which is much more free-flowing? Why don't we see more of the pp specialist type forwards we used to?

My take is this: the ability to "create your own shot", and to play a quick, short passing game, where you skate towards open areas often in anticipation of another player sending the pass that way, is the same quality that produces points in ES and in pp. Its the top of the cycle dynamic, not the net front dynamic.

We don't have those players for ES, which is why we don't have a more effective pp, which in turn is why we have so few pp goals. I don't think this is the age of Pronger anymore. His shots will no longer get to the net as much as they used to (and he was a maestro at that).

Back to this…I think the net front might be the only PP personnel issue. They had used Patrick there to some success. I know you say it’s the least of their structure issues, but I think it’s important. Who do they have for that role?
- NC Flyers Fan

One guy literally standing in front of the other team’s goalie is the issue?

RIP Betty

It happens much more one way than the other. Probabilities.

It is counter-intuitive. Why should pp performance, which is much more structured, be so correlated with ES performance, which is much more free-flowing? Why don't we see more of the pp specialist type forwards we used to?

My take is this: the ability to "create your own shot", and to play a quick, short passing game, where you skate towards open areas often in anticipation of another player sending the pass that way, is the same quality that produces points in ES and in pp. Its the top of the cycle dynamic, not the net front dynamic.

We don't have those players for ES, which is why we don't have a more effective pp, which in turn is why we have so few pp goals. I don't think this is the age of Pronger anymore. His shots will no longer get to the net as much as they used to (and he was a maestro at that).
- PT21

Provide the information that it happens much more one way than the other. We'll start there. Based on how often you get facts wrong. Nobody should take your word for it.

You didn't address what you're missing and hence why that is a factor in probabilities.

There s very little difference in terms of how structured the PP and ES play are. Every facet of ES play in the NHL is structured.

The team got into their hotel 4-430 am local time yesterday before the game.

The goaltending is stealing points and frankly 3 out of 4 points on the first 2 games in a different time zone is a small miracle with the decimated line up

Couterier
Laughton
Brassard
Ellis
Hart
Lacsynki
Thompson

Wishing Yandle was on the damned IR list...
If there was a defenseman more to despise than the old whipping boys of Andy McDonald and Robert Haag....

The team got into their hotel 4-430 am local time yesterday before the game.

The goaltending is stealing points and frankly 3 out of 4 points on the first 2 games in a different time zone is a small miracle with the decimated line up

Couterier
Laughton
Brassard
Ellis
Hart
Lacsynki
Thompson



Wishing Yandle was on the damned IR list...
If there was a defenseman more to despise than the old whipping boys of Andy McDonald and Robert Haag....
- RajaAmpat

I'd take Haag back as our 6th D in a NewYork minute.

RIP Betty
- Bendecko

I agree. A great actress.

The thing is that Yeo even called a timeout so everyone should have been able to get on the same page. Also the personnel for most of the 5 on 3 was JVR, Farabee, G, Provy and Atkinson. When you say not having the “right” players, I don’t agree. I think it is not using players on the team effectively. They clearly didn’t know their roles either because G was talking to them all and pointing a lot.
- NC Flyers Fan

said it last night, Yeo owns that one, he chose the wrong group, then called time and put out the wrong group again

If they ever get Ellis back, he can help. He's pretty good moving the puck and getting the puck to the net.
- MJL

agree and the problem for this team, missing Ellis is something they can't overcome.