We were talking about the #1 D on a contending team. That's the standard I was using anyway.

Nobody was talking about Keith's glory days. He played with Gustaffson and played at a very high level for a season. Gustaffson is barely a NHL player. That's the whole point.
- PT21

Play Keith with Gustafsson on the teams that Provorov has been playing on. How old was Keith and how many years experience did he have? Provorov is 24 years old just entering his prime. Put him in a better situation with better support and I believe he can be better.

Play Keith with Gustafsson on the teams that Provorov has been playing on. How old was Keith and how many years experience did he have? Provorov is 24 years old just entering his prime. Put him in a better situation with better support and I believe he can be better.
- MJL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Nd35wh2oA

Play Keith with Gustafsson on the teams that Provorov has been playing on. How old was Keith and how many years experience did he have? Provorov is 24 years old just entering his prime. Put him in a better situation with better support and I believe he can be better.
- MJL

Guys who are the core pieces of cup winning teams don't have the following said about them: play them with x-y-z or in line x-line y-line z and they will be much better than they are now. They just don't.

That's the whole point. Our core is not really a core.

Coming to the Rangers, they are at an interesting point. They have a high achieving team, but there are a number of blue chip pieces up front not doing much. Lefraniere, Kakko, Chytil. They are also not a franchise known for patience.

I wonder if we can say prise Kakko from them.

Guys who are the core pieces of cup winning teams don't have the following said about them: play them with x-y-z or in line x-line y-line z and they will be much better than they are now. They just don't.

That's the whole point. Our core is not really a core.

Coming to the Rangers, they are at an interesting point. They have a high achieving team, but there are a number of blue chip pieces up front not doing much. Lefraniere, Kakko, Chytil. They are also not a franchise known for patience.

I wonder if we can say prise Kakko from them.
- PT21

What do you plan to give up for Kakko?

I don’t understand this fear of trying Ristolainen on the first pair with Provorov. What else do we have to lose? Even Nick Seeler has had a look.
- SuperSchennBros

Agreed, though if Risto and Sanheim are your most consistent pair, why mess with it?

What do you plan to give up for Kakko?
- hello it's me 2050

Giroux for sure.

Kakko's 2nd contract should be cheapish. He is not doing a lot. He is a big bodied kid, still very young. Bit of a gamble.

I would get him and let him play out his growing pains. The kind of high end gamble we never take.

Why is it nonsense? Provy was supposed to be the #1 D for a contending team of the future.

With such lofty aspirations, the statement of 2050:

"what is disappointing is "Provy" needs someone to carry him to make him look better. Doesn't look like he will be the one to elevate his partner."


makes sense about the disappointment part.

A #1 D of a contending team doesn't have his play descend to the levels Provy has displayed in 3 of the last 4 seasons, which are all well after he came into the league.
- PT21

At the time that Provey was drafted in 2015, he was touted by so-called draft experts as the best defenseman available in the draft, and that is over other defenseman drafted like Noah Hanifin, Zach Werenski and Thomas Chabot. We can argue as to whether or not Provey has lived up to that hype, but coming into this season he clearly did not develop into what we had hoped he would be, a dominating top pairing defenseman. But this year I am starting to see signs, see initiative, see skill, and I do agree with others on this forum that if Provey was playing the entire year with a player like Ellis, he would be a top defenseman in this league right now.

Giroux for sure.

Kakko's 2nd contract should be cheapish. He is not doing a lot. He is a big bodied kid, still very young. Bit of a gamble.

I would get him and let him play out his growing pains. The kind of high end gamble we never take.
- PT21

So you think CC on a one for one swap gets you Kakko? That is a pipedream imo

So you think CC on a one for one swap gets you Kakko? That is a pipedream imo
- hello it's me 2050

Probably. But they are an impatient franchise. They are solid contenders this very year.

Giroux on a 2nd/3rd line could be like Mogilny for the 2000 (?) Debs or Justin Williams for LA in 2014. A very good vet player feasting on lower level matchups. He might get them to the cup.

Guys who are the core pieces of cup winning teams don't have the following said about them: play them with x-y-z or in line x-line y-line z and they will be much better than they are now. They just don't.

That's the whole point. Our core is not really a core.

Coming to the Rangers, they are at an interesting point. They have a high achieving team, but there are a number of blue chip pieces up front not doing much. Lefraniere, Kakko, Chytil. They are also not a franchise known for patience.

I wonder if we can say prise Kakko from them.
- PT21

Players develop into core pieces of a cup winning team. Some do it faster than others. There is also plenty said about them before they actually become a core member of a cup team. To not acknowledge that most players would be better playing on a better team with better players is shortsighted. This is true for all but the elite.

Can Lefraniere, Kakko or Chytil develop and grow into players who are core players on a cup team

Giroux for sure.

Kakko's 2nd contract should be cheapish. He is not doing a lot. He is a big bodied kid, still very young. Bit of a gamble.

I would get him and let him play out his growing pains. The kind of high end gamble we never take.
- PT21

Don't see the Rangers doing that.

Probably. But they are an impatient franchise. They are solid contenders this very year.

Giroux on a 2nd/3rd line could be like Mogilny for the 2000 (?) Debs or Justin Williams for LA in 2014. A very good vet player feasting on lower level matchups. He might get them to the cup.
- PT21

impatient and incompetent 2 diff thing!!! Just think the Rangers could do better just based on hype draft status.

CC will help any team he would go to. Yes he may be a teams missing piece.

At the time that Provey was drafted in 2015, he was touted by so-called draft experts as the best defenseman available in the draft, and that is over other defenseman drafted like Noah Hanifin, Zach Werenski and Thomas Chabot. We can argue as to whether or not Provey has lived up to that hype, but coming into this season he clearly did not develop into what we had hoped he would be, a dominating top pairing defenseman. But this year I am starting to see signs, see initiative, see skill, and I do agree with others on this forum that if Provey was playing the entire year with a player like Ellis, he would be a top defenseman in this league right now.
- jd250

No he wouldn't be a top defenseman in this league is Ellis was playing. He would be much better but not to that level in my opinion.

You haven't seen any signs from Provorov before this year?

Guys who are the core pieces of cup winning teams don't have the following said about them: play them with x-y-z or in line x-line y-line z and they will be much better than they are now. They just don't.

That's the whole point. Our core is not really a core.

Coming to the Rangers, they are at an interesting point. They have a high achieving team, but there are a number of blue chip pieces up front not doing much. Lefraniere, Kakko, Chytil. They are also not a franchise known for patience.

I wonder if we can say prise Kakko from them.
- PT21

I don't see them giving up just yet on the number 2 pick in the draft, at least not this year.

Players develop into core pieces of a cup winning team. Some do it faster than others. There is also plenty said about them before they actually become a core member of a cup team. To not acknowledge that most players would be better playing on a better team with better players is shortsighted. This is true for all but the elite.

Can Lefraniere, Kakko or Chytil develop and grow into players who are core players on a cup team
- MJL

Far more often than not, they show signs of being elite very early. Especially in this era.


Maybe, maybe not. I would take the gamble. Beggars cannot be choosers. If I were to use a book title metaphor for the Flyers future right now, if would be 50 shades of grey.

I don't see them giving up just yet on the number 2 pick in the draft, at least not this year.
- jd250

Long shot, I agree. Original question was: what could we offer to pry someone like Kakko away.

Long shot, I agree. Original question was: what could we offer to pry someone like Kakko away.
- PT21

2 turntables and a microphone

No he wouldn't be a top defenseman in this league is Ellis was playing. He would be much better but not to that level in my opinion.

You haven't seen any signs from Provorov before this year?
- MJL

Not as frequently as I have seen from him this year. He has also at times looked horrible this year defensively. By top defenseman I don't mean Hedman level, who is scoring a point per game, but a couple of levels down, a solid defenseman with good offensive production, like top 25 in defensive scoring. Right now Provey is not even in the top 50 in defensive scoring!

Far more often than not, they show signs of being elite very early. Especially in this era.


Maybe, maybe not. I would take the gamble. Beggars cannot be choosers. If I were to use a book title metaphor for the Flyers future right now, if would be 50 shades of grey.
- PT21

I think it can be clearly established and agreed upon that Provorov is not an elite player. Nor will he develop into one.

From the Flyers side, I absolutely would take that deal.

Long shot, I agree. Original question was: what could we offer to pry someone like Kakko away.
- PT21

Maybe TK and a few picks, but not sure either side would do it.

Not as frequently as I have seen from him this year. He has also at times looked horrible this year defensively. By top defenseman I don't mean Hedman level, who is scoring a point per game, but a couple of levels down, a solid defenseman with good offensive production, like top 25 in defensive scoring. Right now Provey is not even in the top 50 in defensive scoring!
- jd250

Provorov led the NHL in goals scored for defenseman in his second year in the league and put up 41 points in 17/18. He was also a plus 17. What has he done this year that compares to that?

First you talk about what you have seen from him frequently this year and then state that he's not even in the top 50 of defenseman scoring.

Maybe TK and a few picks, but not sure either side would do it.
- jd250

There is no reason to believe that TK would help them much this year's playoffs, especially after his 2020 showing.

If Blueshirts make that sort of deal, it would be because they are giving up on future for the sake of present. You would have to give them potential impact players now that they don't have to pay a whole lot in future.

I think it can be clearly established and agreed upon that Provorov is not an elite player. Nor will he develop into one.

From the Flyers side, I absolutely would take that deal.
- MJL

Giroux + Foerster? The latter is RW for RW, though lower projection ceilings ofc.

Giroux + Foerster? The latter is RW for RW, though lower projection ceilings ofc.
- PT21

Clode
+
German Rubstov
Sam Morin
JOB
Rights to orginal Gus

Guys who are the core pieces of cup winning teams don't have the following said about them: play them with x-y-z or in line x-line y-line z and they will be much better than they are now. They just don't.

That's the whole point. Our core is not really a core.

Coming to the Rangers, they are at an interesting point. They have a high achieving team, but there are a number of blue chip pieces up front not doing much. Lefraniere, Kakko, Chytil. They are also not a franchise known for patience.

I wonder if we can say prise Kakko from them.
- PT21

Not a chance they are trading Kakko...kids only 20 yrs old. Physical power forward likely develop into a Kreider type player. They would probably trade Chytil OR Krastov and a 2nd for G or their 1st and a lesser prospect