yeah i went with the later option so malkin would be back, but who even knows what the future will bring at this rate.

as a flyers fan your frustration in having to pay for that is reasonable though.
- stayinthefnnet

The other issue is you can't sell the games either when the team is this bad unless you willing to take a 50% loss. It's like buying bad stocks.

Hayes is the third line center with these injuries lol
- ClaudeFather

Why are you surprised? He hasnt been good this season.

blow it all up

The other issue is you can't sell the games either when the team is this bad unless you willing to take a 50% loss. It's like buying bad stocks.
- Briere

very true. Damn, i should have waited until the eve of april when you guys are buried haha get in on the ground floor.

I think coming into this season the team on paper was the best team in the past several seasons. Losing Ellis, Hayes and Couturier, and now all the players to Covid have had a substantial impact to this team, this is just a fact, not an opinion. I have no doubt that if this team was healthy from the start of the season, and especially the way their goalies have played and G has rebounded, they would be solidly in the playoff picture. So the answer is yes, I think Fletcher has improved not only the team, but also the prospect pool, which has unfortunately also taken a big hit due to injuries.
- jd250

I think there is a lot truth in what you said then the other truths...

it is the same old song and dance for the Franchise, not that all of that is on CF but it is hard to ask fans to understand. Then add in the depth is so thin, really missing Ellis is all that had to happen to set them back. Sure, Hayes being hurt, Coots playing hurt, all the other injuries but just look at what happen when they lost NISK, history repeated itself and the Flyers need to break that trend.

Side note-

Nisk looks like the smartest man on the planet

I don't mean to contradict myself. Yes the Flyers have not hit in later rounds with truly impact players. Look at the current Flyers roster for proof of this: Giroux, Couturier, Farabee, Sanheim, York, Frost, TK and Laughton, all 1st round picks! The only current roster player that was drafted that is not a 1st round pick is Lindblom. So clearly this shows the Flyers are not having the luck that other franchises like Tampa have got in terms of finding gems in later rounds. The fact is the chances of finding those gems in later rounds, or even outside the top 10 pick, is very low compared to the odds of finding a truly impactful player in the top 10. That is why I have come around to thinking now that the best thing to do is target the player you think has the best chance of being that player and aggressively pursuing him.


- jd250

Lindblom is not the only current roster player that is not drafted in the first round. They also traded past roster players that were not first rounders. How do they target that player?

What I think you fail to realize is its OK to have your opinions evolve over time as the reality of the current situation sinks in. Last year I would argue with PT21 that you can build a good team without drafting in the top 10 and used Farabee and York as examples, but my opinion has changed when I concluded that as good as Farabee is, he will never be more than a good complimentary player, he will not be an elite player, and teams that contend need at least one or two elite players.
- jd250

It is absolutely okay to have your opinions evolve over time. Your statement that I don't understand that is not accurate. My opinions evolve over time. Everyone's does. The issue is that you often double down on past opinions even when shown that they were wrong. For example, you still support the moves that Fletcher made this past off season when they clearly were not the right moves and clearly have damaged the team for the future. I could go on.

Why are you surprised? He hasnt been good this season.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

The lineup they're playing tonight is about trying to find some balance through the lineup and supporting young players as best as possible. Not an indictment on any one player.

I think there is a lot truth in what you said then the other truths...

it is the same old song and dance for the Franchise, not that all of that is on CF but it is hard to ask fans to understand. Then add in the depth is so thin, really missing Ellis is all that had to happen to set them back. Sure, Hayes being hurt, Coots playing hurt, all the other injuries but just look at what happen when they lost NISK, history repeated itself and the Flyers need to break that trend.

Side note-

Nisk looks like the smartest man on the planet
- wcorvette

It was obvious that this team was not that good of a team, long before Covid came into play.

Olivia Reiner
@ReinerOlivia
·
31m
Flyers lines/pairs at morning skate

Farabee-Laughton-Atkinson
Brassard-Frost-van Riemsdyk
Bunnaman-Hayes-Willman
Lindblom-Brown-MacEwen

York-Braun
Zamula-Ristolainen
Yandle-Connauton
- PLindbergh31

very true. Damn, i should have waited until the eve of april when you guys are buried haha get in on the ground floor.
- stayinthefnnet

Hahaha, very true

It is absolutely okay to have your opinions evolve over time. Your statement that I don't understand that is not accurate. My opinions evolve over time. Everyone's does. The issue is that you often double down on past opinions even when shown that they were wrong. For example, you still support the moves that Fletcher made this past off season when they clearly were not the right moves and clearly have damaged the team for the future. I could go on.
- MJL

You see, this is where I just can't agree with you. The moves Fletcher made have been severely impacted by injuries, you just can't get around this fact. Would Colorado be the same without Makar or McKinnon? Would Edmonton be the same without MacDavid or Draisaitl? I know these are much better players than what the Flyers have, but the injuries to the Flyers have been to their best players, i.e. Ellis, Couturier and Hayes. Even Yandle would be much better than he is if he got to play with Braun all season. In the first few games when Ellis was playing, Yandle was doing much better than he is now, or has been since being paired with Seeler and Connauton. Sanheim and Risto have been solid, not perfect, but any mistake they make now is amplified because the Flyers do not have a true top pair with Ellis out. Jake has 1 goal this year, Cam has 13 goals, this is a huge upgrade to the offense, plus Cam kills penalties and already has contributed to 5 short handed goals this year. Patrick is done, Myers is a healthy scratch, Haag has 5 points and is -12 this year, so how can anyone say the changes made by Fletcher were not good ones?

It was obvious that this team was not that good of a team, long before Covid came into play.
- MJL

yeah Covid has zero to do with it currently, if healthy I do think they would have made the playoffs but still very flawed with very little depth

- Tomahawk

wow just wow

yeah Covid has zero to do with it currently, if healthy I do think they would have made the playoffs but still very flawed with very little depth
- wcorvette

This team wasnt making the playoffs no matter what. Who were they beating out? The only team they are remotely close to is Boston and they werent beating them out. They lost 1 player Ellis who is a good not great top pair Dman...thats it. Other teams have lost way more and found a way to win. This team with or without Ellis , who by the way was a 30 + yr old with injury history , wasnt going anywhere. They simply have no elite talent. Their very best players are 2nd line players or 2nd pair defenders on good teams

You see, this is where I just can't agree with you. The moves Fletcher made have been severely impacted by injuries, you just can't get around this fact. Would Colorado be the same without Makar or McKinnon? Would Edmonton be the same without MacDavid or Draisaitl? I know these are much better players than what the Flyers have, but the injuries to the Flyers have been to their best players, i.e. Ellis, Couturier and Hayes. Even Yandle would be much better than he is if he got to play with Braun all season. In the first few games when Ellis was playing, Yandle was doing much better than he is now, or has been since being paired with Seeler and Connauton. Sanheim and Risto have been solid, not perfect, but any mistake they make now is amplified because the Flyers do not have a true top pair with Ellis out. Jake has 1 goal this year, Cam has 13 goals, this is a huge upgrade to the offense, plus Cam kills penalties and already has contributed to 5 short handed goals this year. Patrick is done, Myers is a healthy scratch, Haag has 5 points and is -12 this year, so how can anyone say the changes made by Fletcher were not good ones?
- jd250

I just can't get around this fact? Let's look at it. First of all, in discussion, I told you trading for Ellis was a huge risk when they made it. Before they even played a game. His other big moves of Atkinson and also Ristolainen are also an issue moving forward. Atkinson far less because they traded vet for vet. Atkinson has 24 points in 33 games and Vorack has 23 points in 31 games. Atkinson is not a huge upgrade offensively and you fail to realize how much they miss Vracek's transition play. No matter how you look at it, the Ristolainen deal was an awful deal. Hopefully they're smart enough not to re-sign him and they move him and recoup what they can. Yandle is cooked as a player. He is done. Doesn't matter who he plays with. Brassard has been better than expected but still not a difference maker.
This team, even if all had gone well, is still nothing more than a bubble team.
The Flyers now are in a bad cap bind moving forward and have less youth and less draft picks. For what? LOL

With this post, you've just blown out of the water that your opinion can evolve.

You see, this is where I just can't agree with you. The moves Fletcher made have been severely impacted by injuries, you just can't get around this fact. Would Colorado be the same without Makar or McKinnon? Would Edmonton be the same without MacDavid or Draisaitl? I know these are much better players than what the Flyers have, but the injuries to the Flyers have been to their best players, i.e. Ellis, Couturier and Hayes. Even Yandle would be much better than he is if he got to play with Braun all season. In the first few games when Ellis was playing, Yandle was doing much better than he is now, or has been since being paired with Seeler and Connauton. Sanheim and Risto have been solid, not perfect, but any mistake they make now is amplified because the Flyers do not have a true top pair with Ellis out. Jake has 1 goal this year, Cam has 13 goals, this is a huge upgrade to the offense, plus Cam kills penalties and already has contributed to 5 short handed goals this year. Patrick is done, Myers is a healthy scratch, Haag has 5 points and is -12 this year, so how can anyone say the changes made by Fletcher were not good ones?
- jd250

I just can't get around this fact? Let's look at it. First of all, in discussion, I told you trading for Ellis was a huge risk when they made it. Before they even played a game. His other big moves of Atkinson and also Ristolainen are also an issue moving forward. Atkinson far less because they traded vet for vet. Atkinson has 24 points in 33 games and Vorack has 23 points in 31 games. Atkinson is not a huge upgrade offensively and you fail to realize how much they miss Vracek's transition play. No matter how you look at it, the Ristolainen deal was an awful deal. Hopefully they're smart enough not to re-sign him and they move him and recoup what they can. Yandle is cooked as a player. He is done. Doesn't matter who he plays with. Brassard has been better than expected but still not a difference maker.
This team, even if all had gone well, is still nothing more than a bubble team.
The Flyers now are in a bad cap bind moving forward and have less youth and less draft picks. For what? LOL

With this post, you've just blown out of the water that your opinion can evolve.

trade giroux
trade Risto
trade JVR
trade Yandle

I just can't get around this fact? Let's look at it. First of all, in discussion, I told you trading for Ellis was a huge risk when they made it. Before they even played a game. His other big moves of Atkinson and also Ristolainen are also an issue moving forward. Atkinson far less because they traded vet for vet. Atkinson has 24 points in 33 games and Vorack has 23 points in 31 games. Atkinson is not a huge upgrade offensively and you fail to realize how much they miss Vracek's transition play. No matter how you look at it, the Ristolainen deal was an awful deal. Hopefully they're smart enough not to re-sign him and they move him and recoup what they can. Yandle is cooked as a player. He is done. Doesn't matter who he plays with. Brassard has been better than expected but still not a difference maker.
This team, even if all had gone well, is still nothing more than a bubble team.
The Flyers now are in a bad cap bind moving forward and have less youth and less draft picks. For what? LOL

With this post, you've just blown out of the water that your opinion can evolve.
- MJL

Did Saint Ronnie fail Ivan?

I just can't get around this fact? Let's look at it. First of all, in discussion, I told you trading for Ellis was a huge risk when they made it. Before they even played a game. His other big moves of Atkinson and also Ristolainen are also an issue moving forward. Atkinson far less because they traded vet for vet. Atkinson has 24 points in 33 games and Vorack has 23 points in 31 games. Atkinson is not a huge upgrade offensively and you fail to realize how much they miss Vracek's transition play. No matter how you look at it, the Ristolainen deal was an awful deal. Hopefully they're smart enough not to re-sign him and they move him and recoup what they can. Yandle is cooked as a player. He is done. Doesn't matter who he plays with. Brassard has been better than expected but still not a difference maker.
This team, even if all had gone well, is still nothing more than a bubble team.
The Flyers now are in a bad cap bind moving forward and have less youth and less draft picks. For what? LOL
- MJL

Last year it was clear this team needed more scorers and less play makers. Trading Jake for Cam filled this need and freed up substantial cap space. I still think the Risto trade was a good gamble, it just has not worked out because of the sited injuries and the way this season has gone, so I have evolved and agree that trading Risto at the deadline to recoup much of what was given up (basically a 1st round pick) is the right course of action. This team needed more than just Ellis on the backend, they need that physical presence which is what Risto brings. However given where this team is now, they cannot afford to keep Risto and should trade him. Players like Yandle, Brassard and Thompson were brought in on cheap money as depth pieces, nothing more. They were forced to play way more than I think they would have given the other sited injuries. These are just facts you cannot ignore.

With this post, you've just blown out of the water that your opinion can evolve.
- MJL

Could have done without this last comment!

trade giroux
trade Risto
trade JVR
trade Yandle
- 2Real

AND
trade Brassard
trade Jones
trade Braun
trade Lindblom if there is a market for him.

Last year it was clear this team needed more scorers and less play makers. Trading Jake for Cam filled this need and freed up substantial cap space. I still think the Risto trade was a good gamble, it just has not worked out because of the sited injuries and the way this season has gone, so I have evolved and agree that trading Risto at the deadline to recoup much of what was given up (basically a 1st round pick) is the right course of action. This team needed more than just Ellis on the backend, they need that physical presence which is what Risto brings. However given where this team is now, they cannot afford to keep Risto and should trade him. Players like Yandle, Brassard and Thompson were brought in on cheap money as depth pieces, nothing more. They were forced to play way more than I think they would have given the other sited injuries. These are just facts you cannot ignore.



Could have done without this last comment!
- jd250

The GM didn't address the offense in any way overall. All he focused on was the D. that was a mistake.

The 3 depth pieces you mention were brought in for more than depth. All 3 were/have been/ and will be in the lineup everyday. 2 of those signings were/are an absolute joke..

Also just think the GM could have hired Gallant or BB. Nah he stood by AV like a dope only to being forced fire him.

The current GM is a total fialure up until this point.

Here is the deal. It is obvious that this organization is dysfunctional. It has had not had any real success in how long? Hextall was completely correct to become controlling and to try and change how the team acts across the board. 100%. The old guard wouldn't allow it. They need that change. It's a real shame that they interrupted it and didn't have the insight that it needed to happen. It's just more of the same now and the results are appropriate.





Hextall doesn't hold any culpability. He drafted solid talent, cleaned up the salary cap and built the prospect base up. There should always be more than one guy in the hockey ops department. It was a huge mistake to give Fletcher the whole ball of wax. A huge mistake.

You fail to realize that Holmgren does not have to be in the day to day hockey operations to still have his influence present. He clearly influenced Scott and their mandate to become relevant and go back to trying to win now, is still clearly present. This organization needs an enema from top to bottom.
- MJL

How many years did you want to give him?

What did he already have 4 or 5?
It was clear many of the prospects he sourced were just not at the level he thought. Both gms have been snakebitten from an injury perspective.

I’m envisioning Hextall hypothetically being asked how many more years he needs to turn things around by Scott and then Hextall saying, “I don’t know.” Cause I’ll tell ya he didn’t. Eventually you gotta do one of two things:

Win playoff series or show when you can win playoff series. Hockey is still a biz.

So with that said, how many more years did Hexy need?

The guy severely overrated his d crop and it cost him. It’s not all his fault cause many smarter people than us loved their young d. They just did not turn out.

Hopefully York, Zamula (be happy to give Hexy credit if he pans out), Attard, Andrae work out here to kinda compliment the last crop.

The GM didn't address the offense in any way overall. All he focused on was the D. that was a mistake.

The 3 depth pieces you mention were brought in for more than depth. All 3 were/have been/ and will be in the lineup everyday. 2 of those signings were/are an absolute joke..

Also just think the GM could have hired Gallant or BB. Nah he stood by AV like a dope only to being forced fire him.

The current GM is a total fialure up until this point.
- hello it's me 2050

I don't think it was a mistake. The Flyers were the worst defensive team in the league last year, something needed to be done with personnel and structure and Fletcher addressed it. I like Gallant but lets look at his track record. Booted out of Florida even though the team was doing well. Booted out of Vegas even though the team went to the finals. Let's see how long he lasts with the Rangers. There are serious red flags when you have a coach that has been fired while his teams are very successful. Perhaps he is very difficult to work with? Whatever the reason, AV deserved another chance after last year's Covid debacle. There was no justification to fire a coach like AV who turned it around in 2019 in his first year and was one win from the final 4 just because of one bad year with Covid hanging over everyone. This year it had to be done given the team had yet another 10 game losing streak. But are they much better now under Yeo? Would they be better under Gallant? I seriously doubt it. Its about lack of talent, not coaching IMO.

The GM didn't address the offense in any way overall. All he focused on was the D. that was a mistake.

The 3 depth pieces you mention were brought in for more than depth. All 3 were/have been/ and will be in the lineup everyday. 2 of those signings were/are an absolute joke..

Also just think the GM could have hired Gallant or BB. Nah he stood by AV like a dope only to being forced fire him.

The current GM is a total fialure up until this point.
- hello it's me 2050

Don’t disagree w a lot of this, but Ellis is also an upgrade for offense. Yandle could have been or at least should have been (Easy to say now, but we all would have preferred dangelo) and Atkinson prob is a better fit for the flyers up front. He did make moves to improve the offense. Just have not all panned out.

Still trying to figure out why Gallant was fired in Vegas. Not surprised he is going well.

On a semi related note, can we get a reporter in this town to investigate what is going on with injuries in this org? Instead of just saying well all teams cover up injuries, can we get a reporter that at least openly questions the way the flyers handle injuries especially lower body..?

Olivia Reiner
@ReinerOlivia
·
31m
Flyers lines/pairs at morning skate

Farabee-Laughton-Atkinson
Brassard-Frost-van Riemsdyk
Bunnaman-Hayes-Willman
Lindblom-Brown-MacEwen

York-Braun
Zamula-Ristolainen
Yandle-Connauton
- PLindbergh31

Leadership must just hate Lindblom. He's finally getting his legs when playing with more offensively minded players and now they bury him on the 4th???

just sooo utterly stupid