They didn't need to do this last off season though?
- MJL

They did, but they decided to give AV and this core another chance and it didn't work out, so hopefully not more of the same this off season. They have got to bite the bullet as a franchise and stop trying to patch their way to a cup IMO.

They did, but they decided to give AV and this core another chance and it didn't work out, so hopefully not more of the same this off season. They have got to bite the bullet as a franchise and stop trying to patch their way to a cup IMO.
- jd250

In your opinion the culture was changed and we were going to have a good season, maybe give your opinion a rest.

G is no longer a top player in this league, sorry to say. It doesn't mean he is still not a good player and yes if surrounded with other top players would put up big numbers, but on this team he is not close to enough. That is why the best option is to trade G at the deadline and get a bidding war going so Fletcher can maximize the return.
- jd250

Explain to me how in your eyes this situation was different last off season? Was Giroux a different player last off season? Were any of the Flyers top players, top players in the league last off season? When you touted the moves made by the GM as making all the right moves?

Here are the issues that can limit a bidding war for Giroux.

NMC
Salary cap and available cap space

He actually has some good offensive talent? He was a first round pick!
- MJL

So .... you agree with me that comparing MacEwen to Wilson is a bit of a stretch? You have a funny way of stating that.

They did, but they decided to give AV and this core another chance and it didn't work out, so hopefully not more of the same this off season. They have got to bite the bullet as a franchise and stop trying to patch their way to a cup IMO.
- jd250

So now you're completely reversing the opinion you had before this season started?

Explain to me how in your eyes this situation was different last off season? Was Giroux a different player last off season? Were any of the Flyers top players, top players in the league last off season? When you touted the moves made by the GM as making all the right moves?

Here are the issues that can limit a bidding war for Giroux.

NMC
Salary cap and available cap space
- MJL

It really just boils down to the conversation with Fletcher and G about the NMC, we can always retain or make the trade work with an expiring contract. I could see the conversation ending with an extension....unfortunately.

So .... you agree with me that comparing MacEwen to Wilson is a bit of a stretch? You have a funny way of stating that.
- jd250

No, you didn't get the intent of my reply.

It really just boils down to the conversation with Fletcher and G about the NMC, we can always retain or make the trade work with an expiring contract. I could see the conversation ending with an extension....unfortunately.
- ClaudeFather

I'm thinking more along the lines of where Giroux would waive to go to.

Explain to me how in your eyes this situation was different last off season? Was Giroux a different player last off season? Were any of the Flyers top players, top players in the league last off season? When you touted the moves made by the GM as making all the right moves?

Here are the issues that can limit a bidding war for Giroux.

NMC
Salary cap and available cap space
- MJL

I have been saying the same thing for over two years now, that the Flyers top players are not top players in the league. Nothing has changed from last off season to this off season in this regard. I liked the moves made by Fletcher last off season, I mean do you really want to rehash this again??

The Flyers will cover some salary to make any deal work, but its only for this season so no long term issues with that. They will most likely have to do the same thing with JVR if there is even a market for him at the deadline, which I am not sure there will be.

So now you're completely reversing the opinion you had before this season started?
- MJL

Coming into this season I liked this team on paper, they were still lacking top end talent, but I thought with the changes made they were a strong team that could make the playoffs and win a round or two. It didn't work out, so now you have to accept the facts for what they are and move in a different direction, and that is what I think the Flyers will do.

It really just boils down to the conversation with Fletcher and G about the NMC, we can always retain or make the trade work with an expiring contract. I could see the conversation ending with an extension....unfortunately.
- ClaudeFather

Its OK to be jaded like this as long as you and others are willing to give Fletcher credit when he doesn't extend G , or Risto, and goes in a different direction. I am already on record in stating if Fletcher doubles down, I will join you all in calling for this head!

I'm thinking more along the lines of where Giroux would waive to go to.
- MJL

Agreed but if he’s going to waive for a chance to win why in the world would you limit your options. I know he has young kids which makes things difficult, but I also think there are enough contenders in the east where we won’t have a problem. Both Florida teams, Carolina, Boston always seems to be in the mix for deadline players. Dare I even say Pitt or NYR. And if he is willing to go anywhere then that makes it even easier.

Explain to me how in your eyes this situation was different last off season? Was Giroux a different player last off season? Were any of the Flyers top players, top players in the league last off season? When you touted the moves made by the GM as making all the right moves?

Here are the issues that can limit a bidding war for Giroux.

NMC
Salary cap and available cap space
- MJL

This is beyond funny to me. CC can easily be moved (in terms of the cap only). With retention it is 100% beyond doable. From a cap perspective there is no issues at all.

You mention the cap and cap space yet say ex selke can easily be moved. Still waiting for those team he can easily be moved to cliff that you mention.

I have been saying the same thing for over two years now, that the Flyers top players are not top players in the league. Nothing has changed from last off season to this off season in this regard. I liked the moves made by Fletcher last off season, I mean do you really want to rehash this again??

The Flyers will cover some salary to make any deal work, but its only for this season so no long term issues with that. They will most likely have to do the same thing with JVR if there is even a market for him at the deadline, which I am not sure there will be.
- jd250

Rehash it? Why would we need to do that? One of us was right and one of us was wrong. That has long since been settled. You haven't been saying the same thing for two years now.

Coming into this season I liked this team on paper, they were still lacking top end talent, but I thought with the changes made they were a strong team that could make the playoffs and win a round or two. It didn't work out, so now you have to accept the facts for what they are and move in a different direction, and that is what I think the Flyers will do.
- jd250

No, you labeled the team a contender and one of the top teams in the league. The list of what you got incorrect, whether about individual players or the team is too long to list. What is the definition of a different direction in your view?

Agreed but if he’s going to waive for a chance to win why in the world would you limit your options. I know he has young kids which makes things difficult, but I also think there are enough contenders in the east where we won’t have a problem. Both Florida teams, Carolina, Boston always seems to be in the mix for deadline players. Dare I even say Pitt or NYR. And if he is willing to go anywhere then that makes it even easier.
- ClaudeFather

He's not going to waive to go anywhere so like I stated, that would limit the number of teams bidding. There are also going to likely be a number of other quality players available. So that could also be an issue. Many teams are not going to have much cap space barring a major injury.

Its OK to be jaded like this as long as you and others are willing to give Fletcher credit when he doesn't extend G , or Risto, and goes in a different direction. I am already on record in stating if Fletcher doubles down, I will join you all in calling for this head!
- jd250

Why give out credit for making a painfully obvious decision? Anyone on here knows that should happen. The question is what is done after that? Flyers are going to sit on the cap space and not use it? Tell me what gives you confidence that Fletcher or upper management will make the right decisions in that regard?

He's not going to waive to go anywhere so like I stated, that would limit the number of teams bidding. There are also going to likely be a number of other quality players available. So that could also be an issue. Many teams are not going to have much cap space barring a major injury.
- MJL

He tell you this? All you need is 2 teams.

What other quality players available the caliber of CC?

Cap space will not be an issue. So stop bringing it up.

what teams can ex selke be moved to easily?

Why give out credit for making a painfully obvious decision? Anyone on here knows that should happen. The question is what is done after that? Flyers are going to sit on the cap space and not use it? Tell me what gives you confidence that Fletcher or upper management will make the right decisions in that regard?
- MJL

Disagree , I don’t think it will be an issue. Enough teams in the East to get it done. If they can get him they will make it happen.
Obviously replied to wrong post

Disagree , I don’t think it will be an issue. Enough teams in the East to get it done. If they can get him they will make it happen.
- ClaudeFather

I think you replied to the wrong point. I haven't stated that a trade will not get done. I've stated that the situation overall is going to limit the number of teams in the bidding.

I think you replied to the wrong point. I haven't stated that a trade will not get done. I've stated that the situation overall is going to limit the number of teams in the bidding.
- MJL

It might be the case, I think he will be highly sought after if he were to waive, even if it was just to east coast teams. We shall see. Extension incoming !

It might be the case, I think he will be highly sought after if he were to waive, even if it was just to east coast teams. We shall see. Extension incoming !
- ClaudeFather

If CC wants to be moved it can and will be easily done. Cap will not be an issue in any way.

So now you're completely reversing the opinion you had before this season started?
- MJL

I think a lot of people are reversing on what they thought before the season started.

It might be the case, I think he will be highly sought after if he were to waive, even if it was just to east coast teams. We shall see. Extension incoming !
- ClaudeFather

In my opinion, every single team would love to add Giroux for a playoff run. However issues such as the NMC, cap space and teams having other bigger needs and with a number of good vet players being available, will limit the actual market for Giroux. If the Flyers want to move him, I think a deal will get done.

In my opinion, every single team would love to add Giroux for a playoff run. However issues such as the NMC, cap space and teams having other bigger needs and with a number of good vet players being available, will limit the actual market for Giroux. If the Flyers want to move him, I think a deal will get done.
- MJL

Not an issue. why cant you accept this? what will his cap hit be come around the deadline? surely there is a cap person on the boards that can answer this question.

Who are the good number of vets available that are of CC's caliber?