What is Hayes suppose to rebound to? Was there ever a true belief that a one-two punch of Sean Couturier and Kevin Hayes at center is what would land us a cup?
- SuperSchennBros

not a cup but when healthy these two are good centers to build around

not a cup but when healthy these two are good centers to build around
- jd250

Couturier yes but not Hayes. He may have a few decent years left but he's on his way to being an overpaid 3rd line center.

not a cup but when healthy these two are good centers to build around
- jd250

2 soon to be 30 year old coming of injuries are not 2 centers to build around.

1 of whom is never even been a top end 2nd line center.

minshew couldn't be worse
- 2Real

I watched most of the game today and to be honest I thought your offensive coordinator looked like a rookie today. You have a guy like DaVonta Smith and a Tampa corner playing ten yards off the line, you have got to pound that all day and force Tampa to make adjustments. Instead just kept throwing screens which plays right into that defense, not smart!

Is this Hextall sthick the best that you can come up with? You're calling me embarrassing while claiming that there is no dysfunction in the organization and it's just a down year?
- MJL

I don’t think calling someone embarrassing or personal attacks is productive and one would hope all are above that. Personal attacks show cracks in ones armor when defending a position. Kinda hope we can get past that here.

I would also have zero issue with focusing on drafting for a few years (hopefully closer to 5 than 55) as opposed to free agents and big trades. I think most here would agree. However, we need to draft better and during Hexys reign his drafting was simply not good enough. Maybe the Flyers should have hired Burke to hold his hand here.

Couturier yes but not Hayes. He may have a few decent years left but he's on his way to being an overpaid 3rd line center.
- MJL

Just like ex selke is on his way to being overpaid.

So what teams would have interest in Couturier?

Couturier yes but not Hayes. He may have a few decent years left but he's on his way to being an overpaid 3rd line center.
- MJL

oh yes I think Hayes is already a 3rd line center which is Ok if he can get back his puck possession game. He'll be overpriced of course but at least you are getting something out of him, which is better than what you are getting now. The Flyers need to obtain a true number one center who is fast and a scoring threat. If they draft high enough, one option is that Finish player Lambert, who looked good in the two WJC games he played.

I would also have zero issue with focusing on drafting for a few years (hopefully closer to 5 than 55) as opposed to free agents and big trades. I think most here would agree. However, we need to draft better and during Hexys reign his drafting was simply not good enough enough. Maybe the Flyers should have hired Burke to hold his hand here.
- Joe Nardone

The big obvious miss was Patrick but otherwise, Hextall's drafting was solid. They need to continue the process but they lost patience. Now the team has been set back further with the incompetence of management.

oh yes I think Hayes is already a 3rd line center which is Ok if he can get back his puck possession game. He'll be overpriced of course but at least you are getting something out of him, which is better than what you are getting now. The Flyers need to obtain a true number one center who is fast and a scoring threat. If they draft high enough, over option is that Finish player Lambert, who looked good in the two WJC games he played.
- jd250

So if you think he is already a 3rd line center than how is he a player that you can build around?

oh yes I think Hayes is already a 3rd line center which is Ok if he can get back his puck possession game. He'll be overpriced of course but at least you are getting something out of him, which is better than what you are getting now. The Flyers need to obtain a true number one center who is fast and a scoring threat. If they draft high enough, over option is that Finish player Lambert, who looked good in the two WJC games he played.
- jd250

why would you build around a 3r d line center?

The big obvious miss was Patrick but otherwise, Hextall's drafting was solid. They need to continue the process but they lost patience. Now the team has been set back further with the incompetence of management.
- MJL

Let it go already about your dad the former GM.

We all know your opinion. Move on CLiff.

I watched most of the game today and to be honest I thought your offensive coordinator looked like a rookie today. You have a guy like DaVonta Smith and a Tampa corner playing ten yards off the line, you have got to pound that all day and force Tampa to make adjustments. Instead just kept throwing screens which plays right into that defense, not smart!
- jd250

They had simple pitch and catch plays available all game and with Smith's speed, he could break one. I don't know if it was Hurts or the play calling. Even if it is the play calling, he can audible out.

I don’t think calling someone embarrassing or personal attacks is productive and one would hope all are above that. Personal attacks show cracks in ones armor when defending a position. Kinda hope we can get past that here.

I would also have zero issue with focusing on drafting for a few years (hopefully closer to 5 than 55) as opposed to free agents and big trades. I think most here would agree. However, we need to draft better and during Hexys reign his drafting was simply not good enough. Maybe the Flyers should have hired Burke to hold his hand here.
- Joe Nardone

look, I'm as disappointed as anyone with the way this season has gone, but it's a complete overreaction to call the entire organization dysfunctional from top to bottom. It's been a rough two years but not everything is bad here, the Flyers just need to transition from the existing core to a new core and get a fresh start with a new coach and I think things can get better. I just think some on here want to paint things a lot worse then they are because they are bitter about past decisions.

The big obvious miss was Patrick but otherwise, Hextall's drafting was solid. They need to continue the process but they lost patience. Now the team has been set back further with the incompetence of management.
- MJL

so maybe this is a good thing because you might get your wish and they become patient again. But it's a lot more than just Patrick, don't fool yourself to think otherwise. Consistently solid drafting would have compensated for missing on Patrick!

look, I'm as disappointed as anyone with the way this season has gone, but it's a complete overreaction to call the entire organization dysfunctional from to to bottom. It's been a rough two years but not everything is bad here, the Flyers just need to transition from the existing core to a new core and get a fresh start with a new coach and I think things can get better. I just think some on here want to paint things a lot worse then they are because they are bitter about past decisions.
- jd250

It is 100% completely justified. Only a blind fool would think otherwise.

Flyers right now have 3 players that you can are positives imo. Hart and in a very small sample York. CC from a stats standpoint would be a positive. That is it. Braun is fine though not sure how one classifies him. Rest disappointing or underwhelming.

1st question. Who is the existing core they need to move on from?

So if you think he is already a 3rd line center than how is he a player that you can build around?
- MJL

build around at center. when healthy Hayes is still a solid center and any team needs strong depth down the middle.

why would you build around a 3r d line center?
- hello it's me 2050

your totally missing my point. I think Couts should be the 2nd line center and Hayes the 3rd line center, and as stated the Flyers need to develop a new top line center, because it will be next to impossible to trade for one. The key is you need three good centers to be a contending team and I think Hayes can be part of that depth.

look, I'm as disappointed as anyone with the way this season has gone, but it's a complete overreaction to call the entire organization dysfunctional from to to bottom. It's been a rough two years but not everything is bad here, the Flyers just need to transition from the existing core to a new core and get a fresh start with a new coach and I think things can get better. I just think some on here want to paint things a lot worse then they are because they are bitter about past decisions.
- jd250

Thinking it's a complete overreaction to state that the entire organization is dysfunctional from top to bottom is naïve. It hasn't been just two rough years. What makes you think that the hockey department is capable of making a complete transition to a new core? Sometimes I wonder if you actually read what you post before hitting enter. Bitter about the past decisions? I think you're completely unaware of what the situation is.

build around at center. when healthy Hayes is still a solid center and any team needs strong depth down the middle.
- jd250

You don't build a team around a 3rd line center.

They had simple pitch and catch plays available all game and with Smith's speed, he could break one. I don't know if it was Hurts or the play calling. Even if it is the play calling, he can audible out.
- MJL

The Pats looked so bad last night I forced myself to watch Brady today to remember what a good team looks like.

so maybe this is a good thing because you might get your wish and they become patient again. But it's a lot more than just Patrick, don't fool yourself to think otherwise. Consistently solid drafting would have compensated for missing on Patrick!
- jd250

Here is another statement that you didn't think through. Consistent drafting cannot make up for a miss on a 2nd overall pick where you were hoping to get a #1 NHL center. Hextall drafted some good players but no star level players. I seriously doubt that this team adopts a patient approach.

Thinking it's a complete overreaction to state that the entire organization is dysfunctional from top to bottom is naïve. It hasn't been just two rough years. What makes you think that the hockey department is capable of making a complete transition to a new core? Sometimes I wonder if you actually read what you post before hitting enter. Bitter about the past decisions? I think you're completely unaware of what the situation is.
- MJL

well I still like Fletcher and I think Flahr is a good drafter, so I still believe they can turn this around

your totally missing my point. I think Couts should be the 2nd line center and Hayes the 3rd line center, and as stated the Flyers need to develop a new top line center, because it will be next to impossible to trade for one. The key is you need three good centers to be a contending team and I think Hayes can be part of that depth.
- jd250

How long do you think it will take to develop a #1 center? do the flyers have one in the system?

You don't build a team around a 3rd line center.
- MJL

you build a contending team around a strong goalie, solid top defenseman and depth down the middle. You are stuck with Hayes at this point, so the best you can hope for is he helps you with depth down the middle which I think when healthy he can.

your totally missing my point. I think Couts should be the 2nd line center and Hayes the 3rd line center, and as stated the Flyers need to develop a new top line center, because it will be next to impossible to trade for one. The key is you need three good centers to be a contending team and I think Hayes can be part of that depth.
- jd250

So they have a 2C and 3C who are aging, getting injured, signed to long term contracts with NTCs (ditto with a 1st D pairing guy who might as well have a NTC) , they need a new coach, need to transition to a new core (all your words and public facts) and they could be on the right track? 😭