In some deals an expiring contract is more valuable then one with term. Some teams specifically want a guy on expiring contract. They can sort of “date” the player rather then entering a “marriage”. G is a perfect Rental for a team like the Rangers or Bruins…if it works out then you can sign him. It was like the Foligno to TO deal. It didn’t really work so Foligno signed in Boston…TO was happy I’m sure he didn’t have term.
- landros 2

100%, I’m with you. I think we will get a solid return for G. There will be teams calling, we aren’t going to be left with a low ball offer like some are thinking. I just know we are not getting a franchise center out of it lol. Maybe we make a great selection with the pick we receive.

What deal that includes futures would not help the Flyers? I get that you wouldn't want a 4th straight up for Giroux. However, if you are moving on you are moving on. Get something.

For the record, a first and some sort of prospect seems very realistic for G with 50% retained. I do not envision a scenario where they would need to settle for a terrible return. This assumes G is willing to waive his NMC to complete a trade.
- mickel25

For maybe a lesser player you may ask for a 2nd …and take a 3rd. But not for a captain, and former franchise cornerstone, that could put a team over the top for a Stanley Cup. You set your price and go from there…for guys saying we should take “what ever we can get”. Perhaps they can give an example of when that’s ever happened?… sure sometimes teams don’t get exactly what they want but in a trade but that’s a far cry from taking what ever they can get. That’s all I’m saying. Your not a very good GM if that’s your idea of competence.

For maybe a lesser player you may ask for a 2nd …and take a 3rd. But not for a captain, and former franchise cornerstone, that could put a team over the top for a Stanley Cup. You set your price and go from there…for guys saying we should take “what ever we can get”. Perhaps they can give an example of when that’s ever happened?… sure sometimes teams don’t get exactly what they want but in a trade but that’s a far cry from taking what ever they can get. That’s all I’m saying. Your not a very good GM if that’s your idea of competence.
- landros 2

1 minute before the deadline ends. Best offer is a 3rd rd pick. what do you do?

100%, I’m with you. I think we will get a solid return for G. There will be teams calling, we aren’t going to be left with a low ball offer like some are thinking. I just know we are not getting a franchise center out of it lol. Maybe we make a great selection with the pick we receive.
- ClaudeFather

I agree 100% with that…we are not getting a franchise player back for a former franchise Center…what we might get is a couple of lottery tickets (draft picks) to draft some guys or a guy that maybe is redundant to an organization but might help us.

I am glad it made sense to you. I meant, ofc, the density of games across that time, not the density of days across that time as I wrote (the latter being immutably fixed by God, not Bettman).
- PT21

lol - honestly as soon as I read your second sentence I realized how silly was my question.

The total length of season is # of days between start to finish (inclusive).
- PT21

1 minute before the deadline ends. Best offer is a 3rd rd pick. what do you do?
- hello it's me 2050

I hang up the phone or ask the other GM if he really wants a player that might help him win the Stanley cup…then hang up.

100%, I’m with you. I think we will get a solid return for G. There will be teams calling, we aren’t going to be left with a low ball offer like some are thinking. I just know we are not getting a franchise center out of it lol. Maybe we make a great selection with the pick we receive.
- ClaudeFather

Not a franchise center, but could get a prospect that turns into a solid #2, with a little luck maybe a lower end #1. Id much rather get a prospect than a draft pick in the 30s

I think it’s asinine to take what you can get. It sets a very bad precedent. I don’t think a late round pick is an over ask at all. There are a few team that G could really fill a need. If the deal doesn’t help the Flyers…then you don’t make the deal.
- landros 2

and thats basically what i was getting at. if the most that ever is on the table is a first in the late 20s and a third, you would be more inclined to simply let him walk or engage in postseason extension talks than recouping that. Im not trying to criticize here. its all relative. Just curious to see where individual lines are.

there is something to be said for the precedent of maybe teams in the future thinking they can wait you out and out leverage here, but i dont see how a first and third doesnt help the flyers.

1 minute before the deadline ends. Best offer is a 3rd rd pick. what do you do?
- hello it's me 2050

I don't take it. G stays on the team for the rest of the year.

Yes, getting rid of Jeff Carter and Bob was very smart of him. We are quite fortunate.
- iamscore2day

Jeff Carter for Voracek and the 8th overall pick that they used on Couturier was an incredible return.

For maybe a lesser player you may ask for a 2nd …and take a 3rd. But not for a captain, and former franchise cornerstone, that could put a team over the top for a Stanley Cup. You set your price and go from there…for guys saying we should take “what ever we can get”. Perhaps they can give an example of when that’s ever happened?… sure sometimes teams don’t get exactly what they want but in a trade but that’s a far cry from taking what ever they can get. That’s all I’m saying. Your not a very good GM if that’s your idea of competence.
- landros 2

oh make no mistake, i think your floor is a first. and i dont think that is crazy. thats just business this time of year and lesser players have fetched that. teams can work the cap angle. it may lessen the market a bit but it wont be overly prohibitive to me. I just dont see a team packaging a top flight A prospect in addition for a rental (albeit a very good one).

Zedna Chara at 45 fought and beat our most physical player. And not one of our name players will ever instigate a fight, even the so called more physical ones. That says a lot to me re attitude of team.
- biggbear77

Chara is the biggest guy in the league. He wouldn't lose to anyone.

lol - honestly as soon as I read your second sentence I realized how silly was my question.
- Scoob

Gotcha.

The thing about the cap space if I understand correctly is that it it is essentially Cap ceiling less Cap hit plus the weird banking of cap space that can occur during the season, where you can send players down to minors and accrue the daily savings (and there is a pretty low max on that savings too. The max you can accumulate this season per player per day, irrespective of how high their AAV is (1,150,000/200)=5750. So, for example, if you send JVR down for x days to the minors, say during the original Olympic break, for 20 days, your cap space goes up by 5750*20=115000).

Injury space is not bankable though. If your guy was down for a while, the amount of the salary on roster that did not show up on ice is not bankable across span of injury unlike the minors example above. If part of your cap space is injury related, and you use it to bring someone in at TDL, then the injured guy better be out for rest of regular season.

The amount of your LTIR space created by placing a guy on LTIR = (Cap hit - Cap Ceiling) + that player's AAV. You want that negative term within the parentheses to be as small as possible, which is why to get full value of LTIR, you want to be as close to Cap ceiling as possible.

That is pretty much all I understand about cap. MJL, please correct as needed.

The best thing for the flyers would be if a team loses a player like Backstrom to injury, then G would be very appealing. A team couple play him at wing, or center. He would be very valuable. I could totally see him going to the pens. But not sure they have anyone i would want. Maybe Friedman.
- bradster

there are no current players that would really work, and not much in the pipeline.

im not saying giroux wouldnt help, but even squinting i see a hard time working one there.

oh make no mistake, i think your floor is a first. and i dont think that is crazy. thats just business this time of year and lesser players have fetched that. teams can work the cap angle. it may lessen the market a bit but it wont be overly prohibitive to me. I just dont see a team packaging a top flight A prospect in addition for a rental (albeit a very good one).
- stayinthefnnet

The only way the Flyers get a top flight A prospect is if two or more teams are willing to over pay for him and G is willing to go to both. I don’t see that happening but we are still a ways away to know what kind of return can be expected. I think it starts with a 1rst and goes from there. Watching TDL days for the last 20 + odd years nothing would shock me, especially if G keeps his play at a high level of production that he’s at to start the season.

I agree with this. You don’t take any offer. You set your price regardless of the # teams involved. If there’s more then one team involved that meets the price you may privately go to the player and ask his preference…he’s earned that.
- landros 2

Absolutely. I don’t know what Giroux will get us in return. I doubt he’ll be a first line center on a contending team but he’ll definitely be a second line player on a team looking to put themselves over the top, and that’s still valuable at a high price. The returns Richards and Carter brought back were great returns. I’d argue Giroux is as good, if not better today than Carter and Richards were when we traded them. Both of which took a backseat to Anzi Kopitar, Justin Williams and Dustin Brown. Just depends on how bad a team wants to win or what they believe Giroux will add. I think we’ve all seen crazier things.

Jeff Carter for Voracek and the 8th overall pick that they used on Couturier was an incredible return.
- Feanor

That day when Homer traded Carter and Richards for Jake, Coots, Schenn and Simmer was probably the single greatest day for a Flyers GM ever.

The rest of his tenure was... mixed... to put it nicely.

there are no current players that would really work, and not much in the pipeline.

im not saying giroux wouldnt help, but even squinting i see a hard time working one there.
- stayinthefnnet

they would trade zucker for CC imo....then add the required picks/prospects.

That day when Homer traded Carter and Richards for Jake, Coots, Schenn and Simmer was probably the single greatest day for a Flyers GM ever.

The rest of his tenure was... mixed... to put it nicely.
- Tomahawk

Hands down

That day when Homer traded Carter and Richards for Jake, Coots, Schenn and Simmer was probably the single greatest day for a Flyers GM ever.

The rest of his tenure was... mixed... to put it nicely.
- Tomahawk

Those players are why I am skeptical that Flyers lack development mojo for their youth.

Schenn went on to be 1C in a cup team
Couts went on to win Selke
Simmer became a legit 1st line power forward.

Looking around, Farabee and TK are likely going to be top 6 forwards, possible top line, in most teams. Provorov is legit 1st pairing. Sanheim, York are going to be average if not better top 4. Lindblom and Ghost have already beaten expectations.

Other than NP, I don't really see much evidence that Flyers under perform in development relative to trend expectations for where they draft. Every team has misses.

Its not the polish that is lacking. It is the quality of the gem.

they would trade zucker for CC imo....then add the required picks/prospects.
- hello it's me 2050

from a pens perspective sure that makes sense. but why would the flyers want zucker?

from a pens perspective sure that makes sense. but why would the flyers want zucker?
- stayinthefnnet

Depends what else is coming back with zucker. That is just an example of a contract that has to come back.


CC + Jones (both at 50%) for Zucker + Desmith + picks/prospects. Can see that happening

if the most on the table is a late first and B prospect, would anyone here simply not make that deal? (i understand the jumps of cap hit/waiving/etc, but for a moment say that is squared away)
- stayinthefnnet

If that's the best, then yes take it.

You're not letting him go for nothing at the end of the season and resigning him makes zero sense anymore.

That day when Homer traded Carter and Richards for Jake, Coots, Schenn and Simmer was probably the single greatest day for a Flyers GM ever.

The rest of his tenure was... mixed... to put it nicely.
- Tomahawk

You didn't like the Luke Schenn trade? What about the Pavel Kubina trade? What about the 3 year contract to Jody Shelley on the first day of free agency?

You didn't like the Luke Schenn trade? What about the Pavel Kubina trade? What about the 3 year contract to Jody Shelley on the first day of free agency?
- PLindbergh31

I so would trade JvR for Luke Schenn straight up right now…