Who was BUF's #1 coming into this yr or the Hawks' between Lankanin and Delia or AZ's this yr? ...... My point is you can find some kind of placeholder until a possible #1 emerges after you trade Fluery. As bare as the prospect cupboard is the Hawks do not have the luxury of keeping Fluery and not maximizing what return he can bring.

With that in mind I see a bit of AZ and from from first look have really liked 25 yr old Karel Vejmelka. If he's starting I watch a period or so of their game. Love his size and foundation as he hangs in there efficiently and at times fantastically staring down 45-50 shots a game behind that atrocious team. https://www.eliteprospect...yer/189829/karel-vejmelka

Would the Hawks use assets to trade for him or someone like him? Are the Hawks buyers AND sellers at the TDL???? Move 49 yr old Fluery for a 2nd and use a 3rd for a Karel Vejmelka type?
- Mr Ricochet

I get your point Ricco, but I am of the camp that the Hawks are as "torn down" as they are ever going to get. No matter what the consulting firm recommends for the Hockey Ops position, it is still the Owner who has the final say about the direction. I don't think it was Stan alone that decided the rebuild was over and signed McCabe, Fleury, T. Johnson Etc. I don't think they are going to go into next year with 3 fringe NHL goalies like they did last year.

Good to see you posting, Wiz. Hope all is well with you and yours......... Reading yesterday's blog about the Dmen in the system I see you didn't post. Would love to read your thoughts on that subject especially on guys like Phillips, Allan, Galvas, Vlasic and Kaiser.

With prospects in mind the last two blogs it's time to pull out my wet blanket.

Ended up at Elite Prospects admiring ex Steel GM Ryan Hardy's meteoric rise from the Steel straight to running TOR's prospects and GMing their ECHL and AHL squads (Steel coach Greg Moore went straight from the Steel bench to head coach of the Marlies a couple yrs back) . Clicked on TOR's page and scrolled down to "Team Staff" which is their entire organIzation's employees. Looked at it awhile then clicked the Hawk's page and it didn't take long for tears to start flowing.

Did not think it was possible for me to be more pessimistic going forward or have less respect for Rocky and his Boy but after comparing a real NHL organIzation to Rocky and his Boy's I am.

Check out the difference in the number of hockey ops people. Hawks do not have a dedicated Director of Analytics. I'm also confused by the Hawks having 174 scouts listed. Assume it's from the school of thought if you have 292 scouts you don't have 1.

I've been on board with the consulting company they hired to assess the organIzation and it's processes for hiring a hockey ops guru/GM and after seeing their organIzation as compared to TOR's I'm doubled down on hiring that firm and believe it's their only hope.... Simply said I do not think Rocky and his Boy have one single clue.

Scroll down to Team Staff.

TOR: https://www.eliteprospect...am/76/toronto-maple-leafs

CHI: https://www.eliteprospect...eam/56/chicago-blackhawks
- Mr Ricochet

When they brought in the Soccer Gurus, what instructions did Rocky give? Build me an organization that makes me more money in the next couple years? Or, build me an organization that wins Cups?

I get your point Ricco, but I am of the camp that the Hawks are as "torn down" as they are ever going to get. No matter what the consulting firm recommends for the Hockey Ops position, it is still the Owner who has the final say about the direction. I don't think it was Stan alone that decided the rebuild was over and signed McCabe, Fleury, T. Johnson Etc. I don't think they are going to go into next year with 3 fringe NHL goalies like they did last year.
- LAHawk

Excellent post, LA.

Rocky will remain the owner; he did not sell the team to the Soccer Gurus. At best, the Gurus will increase the odds that we as fans build a championship level front office. The odds of hiring someone who will bring in another Cup are kinda slim - most teams have very long droughts.

Here's an interesting question..... If the Hawks had not put themselves in a 10 game hole to start the season, but instead were playing at the pace they are under King, do you feel differently about this team moving forward? The record under King puts them at a playoff contention pace, if so are we still questioning the current and next core?.

Let's say the current core is Toews, Kane, ADB, Dach, Kubalik, Hagel, S. Jones. Adding Reichel makes them better. Adding a couple of the young defenseman probably makes them better. At that point you have a competitive team while you draft more prospects, develop the ones you have, or package some of them for other talent/prospects.
- TheTrob

They're still bad. Scoring problems outside of ADB and Kane and MAF has been playing absurdly good. There are more shots from the side then guys just walking into the middle for tap ins but I wouldn't call them a competent team defensively.

The Jones deal is turning into a poor decision.

Assuming Toews would be Toews and that Dach, Kubalik, Mitchell or the other Jones (or any of those young defenders they were hard on that haven't looked like anything other then guys) would be useful was a bit of a dumb bet.

Without a first this year and losing out on the midround first last year, they're not 3 years away but maybe 5? 6? Assuming they get some top 3 picks in the next few years that they hit on...

It does not look good for them in the short term and it isn't like they can just blow it up like the Sox or Cubs did to return to relevancy they just have to suck for a while with a competent GM and front office that is better at evaluating Canadian and American talent then what they have now.

Not really. Let's say they split those games. The are currently the last team in, but have played more games than most of the teams that are behind them. This is basically where I expected them to be this year. I'm bullish on the D prospects, but the forward prospects are pretty much poop. No offense to the players themselves, but outside of Reichel, it's a bunch of 3rd-4th liners with maybe C. Dach as a higher option.

That current core you listed doesn't inspire much confidence for me right now.
- Chunk

Do you believe it is not a reach to compete for a playoff spot under these conditions working out well for the Blackhawks:

* Goaktending is good, not great with Laakinen and Soderblom sharing net

* Many forwards graduate- most from Rockford- and prove to be solid, hard working, gritty both responsible extensively and tough checkers. They also show modest offensive ability, not duds

* Both Mitchell and Galvas are steady, where eas Kalynuk dies not break through and Beaudin is traded

* Toews retires but Kane is still here.

I would like to also include one other condition, but it is premature and difficult to ascertain exactly the details... . Which would be draft choice(s) and or improvement ti a higher earlier selection in '22 draft by trading any ir each Fleury, Carpentar, deHahn. Won't include Murphy but wish he was traded too

I get your point Ricco, but I am of the camp that the Hawks are as "torn down" as they are ever going to get. No matter what the consulting firm recommends for the Hockey Ops position, it is still the Owner who has the final say about the direction. I don't think it was Stan alone that decided the rebuild was over and signed McCabe, Fleury, T. Johnson Etc. I don't think they are going to go into next year with 3 fringe NHL goalies like they did last year.
- LAHawk

Well, since the organIzation has not given the goof who pays 16 bucks a beer and 35 to park at a Hawks game not one single syllable as to the plan going forward, other than we have a 23 yr old interim GM, we are all left to speculate and get into one camp of school of thought or another.

And remember this consulting firm's area of expertise is to evaluate organIzational "processes" of how they operate and hire. Not so much to evaluate and hand in a list of people for a position although they say they have done that too.

The way I see it is Rocky and his Boy were handed an organIzation on the cusp of being a dynasty. They entered that game in the 8th inning of a World Series win having no idea why they won. ....... They were given a fish to eat never having been taught to fish for their next meal. My hope is this consulting firm is teaching Rocky and his Boy how to fish.

When they brought in the Soccer Gurus, what instructions did Rocky give? Build me an organization that makes me more money in the next couple years? Or, build me an organization that wins Cups?
- mohel

Mo, please do not tell me you are more cynical than I am!! ....... You know I'm watching that TOR v NYR tilt last night and am thinking this thing by two top clubs is so closely contested that the smallest error in any of the 3 zones could very well end up in the back of your net.

Then later looking at the Hawks' and TOR's organIzational charts I'm thinking how many people are involved in icing a group like I just watched that can play damn near error free hockey it's an awesome thought and in the end an incredible system wide effort to win. It ain't easy man, you ain't gonna get lucky being in the group of top clubs.

As I posted my hope is this consulting firm does not give Rocky and his Boy a fish to eat my hope is they teach them how to fish cuz I don't think they even know what a fishing pole, where to find one or where a body of water is.

Excellent post, LA.

Rocky will remain the owner; he did not sell the team to the Soccer Gurus. At best, the Gurus will increase the odds that we as fans build a championship level front office. The odds of hiring someone who will bring in another Cup are kinda slim - most teams have very long droughts.
- mohel

This, build a championship level front office.

Well, since the organIzation has not given the goof who pays 16 bucks a beer and 35 to park at a Hawks game not one single syllable as to the plan going forward, other than we have a 23 yr old interim GM, we are all left to speculate and get into one camp of school of thought or another.

And remember this consulting firm's area of expertise is to evaluate organIzational "processes" of how they operate and hire. Not so much to evaluate and hand in a list of people for a position although they say they have done that too.

The way I see it is Rocky and his Boy were handed an organIzation on the cusp of being a dynasty. They entered that game in the 8th inning of a World Series win having no idea why they won. ....... They were given a fish to eat never having been taught to fish for their next meal. My hope is this consulting firm is teaching Rocky and his Boy how to fish.
- Mr Ricochet

To be fair, in those last few years, they were starting to improve the organization. 2010 didn't magically happen overnight.

And they delegated the running of the org to McD and the Bowmans and Tallon and Pulford before that.

Keith - Kane was 5 years of drafting and hitting on 4 building blocks out of 5 drafts. With enough middle picks hitting to fill out with role players. They haven't drafted that well since the 80s.

How to build a modern sports organization in a league that is still fairly antiquated is probably a good discussion to have - regardless of where that expertise lies since a lot of the basics are the same.

When they brought in the Soccer Gurus, what instructions did Rocky give? Build me an organization that makes me more money in the next couple years? Or, build me an organization that wins Cups?
- mohel

Rocky, of all people, should have learned that one begets the other

To be fair, in those last few years, they were starting to improve the organization. 2010 didn't magically happen overnight.

And they delegated the running of the org to McD and the Bowmans and Tallon and Pulford before that.

Keith - Kane was 5 years of drafting and hitting on 4 building blocks out of 5 drafts. With enough middle picks hitting to fill out with role players. They haven't drafted that well since the 80s.

How to build a modern sports organization in a league that is still fairly antiquated is probably a good discussion to have - regardless of where that expertise lies since a lot of the basics are the same.
- fattybeef

Good post, Fatty. McD, Bowman's, Tallon and Neil Smith(?) did enough, pitched in enough, to earn 3 cups and in McD's case turned the brand into a cash cow. .... In other words the planets aligned and the result was 3 cups but Rocky came in very late to that process.

Good post, Fatty. McD, Bowman's, Tallon and Neil Smith(?) did enough, pitched in enough, to earn 3 cups and in McD's case turned the brand into a cash cow. .... In other words the planets aligned and the result was 3 cups but Rocky came in very late to that process.
- Mr Ricochet

I think he was pretty involved in the org before that. Obviously the old man was involved to a certain extent even towards the end (since they weren't on TV until he died) - but I think more of that was delegated sooner then you would think.

Mo, please do not tell me you are more cynical than I am!! ....... You know I'm watching that TOR v NYR tilt last night and am thinking this thing by two top clubs is so closely contested that the smallest error in any of the 3 zones could very well end up in the back of your net.

Then later looking at the Hawks' and TOR's organIzational charts I'm thinking how many people are involved in icing a group like I just watched that can play damn near error free hockey it's an awesome thought and in the end an incredible system wide effort to win. It ain't easy man, you ain't gonna get lucky being in the group of top clubs.

As I posted my hope is this consulting firm does not give Rocky and his Boy a fish to eat my hope is they teach them how to fish cuz I don't think they even know what a fishing pole, where to find one or where a body of water is.
- Mr Ricochet

Ricco, are you really going to hold the Maple Leafs organization as a gold standard? The group that pushed Lamarello out the door for Dubas? A team that is so top heavy salary wise they cannot breath? The team that has not won a playoff series since 2004?

"...Move 49 yr old Fluery for a 2nd and use a 3rd for a Karel Vejmelka type?..."

Imagine my surprise when discovering Marc Andre Fluery has aged 12 years since I looked at the Blackhawks' roster information this morning.

Rocky, of all people, should have learned that one begets the other
- pdx2ord

Not necessarily, imo. Buying the best scouts, front office types, analytical experts, and using whatever tricks necessary to spend over the cap (LTIR), cost lotsa money. Building a team that wins a round or two every couple years could be more profitable. Also, does Rocky want to take the financial hit of a multiyear tear down? More importantly, do the fans buying tickets want to do so?

I don't know what Rocky's thoughts are in this regard. But I strongly suspect that he has thoughts in this regard, and that he didn't hire the Gurus to tell him what to think. He hired them to implement the strategy. I hope, as a fan, that the strategy is to build a front office designed to make a championship contender, regardless of cost. But, he's a Wirtz, so the the "regardless of cost" part is far from certain, imo.

@Account4hockey
Frank Seravalli says on SN650 that Kane, Toews, and Seth Jones are the only untouchables for CHI. If you want to take a run at trading for anyone else, they'll listen.

So a blockbuster with DBC included??? This surprises me as it's not really in line with a rebuilding team approach. Unless, they've already talked to all three of those players and all nixed a trade.

Not necessarily, imo. Buying the best scouts, front office types, analytical experts, and using whatever tricks necessary to spend over the cap (LTIR), cost lotsa money. Building a team that wins a round or two every couple years could be more profitable. Also, does Rocky want to take the financial hit of a multiyear tear down? More importantly, do the fans buying tickets want to do so?

I don't know what Rocky's thoughts are in this regard. But I strongly suspect that he has thoughts in this regard, and that he didn't hire the Gurus to tell him what to think. He hired them to implement the strategy. I hope, as a fan, that the strategy is to build a front office designed to make a championship contender, regardless of cost. But, he's a Wirtz, so the the "regardless of cost" part is far from certain, imo.
- mohel

Maybe Rocky is just busy taking care of the Business that really drives the families wealth

https://www.breakthrubev....hru-acquires-major-brands


https://www.breakthrubev....akthru%20Beverage%20Group.

@Account4hockey
Frank Seravalli says on SN650 that Kane, Toews, and Seth Jones are the only untouchables for CHI. If you want to take a run at trading for anyone else, they'll listen.

So a blockbuster with DBC included??? This surprises me as it's not really in line with a rebuilding team approach. Unless, they've already talked to all three of those players and all nixed a trade.
- pdx2ord

I think Jones could be traded this season without his consent (10 team list he can't be traded to).

What this means, imo, is that those in charge don't want to part with him. If he, Kane and Toews are the untouchables, it smells to me like they're still trying to put perfume on this pig and sell it as a contender soon.

Hey T, respectfully I can't take anything from Elite Prospects with a grain of salt. A very respected organIzation that is the go to for stats on players from youth hockey all the way to the Bigs used by NHL people and fans.

I'd concede they may not be 100% as far as NHL organIzational employees but close enough to make me even more concerned about Rocky and his Boy's abilities than I already had.
- Mr Ricochet

I'm not disputing the validity of Elite Prospects. It's a great source of info. My point was more that you can't necessarily draw conclusions based on a listing of personnel. Yes, the Hawks have a bunch of scouts listed, the Leafs don't, take that for whatever you want. I see plenty of teams like the Bruins, Penguins and others that list just as many scouts if not more.

@Account4hockey
Frank Seravalli says on SN650 that Kane, Toews, and Seth Jones are the only untouchables for CHI. If you want to take a run at trading for anyone else, they'll listen.

So a blockbuster with DBC included??? This surprises me as it's not really in line with a rebuilding team approach. Unless, they've already talked to all three of those players and all nixed a trade.
- pdx2ord

Don't know if anyone ever responded last blog but is ADB really a core building block?


To me he is Sharp like but without the two way play (yes Sharp was a good two way player in his prime). ADB has gotten better on the defensive side of things but if he isn't scoring goals he has little value.

I think his is a piece you add to your core to get you to the next level. A goal scorer that fills out your top 6.

Hawks are 3-5 years away from being contenders, if everything goes accordingly.

If you get a package that blows you away trade ADB.

I think Jones could be traded this season without his consent (10 team list he can't be traded to).

What this means, imo, is that those in charge don't want to part with him. If he, Kane and Toews are the untouchables, it smells to me like they're still trying to put perfume on this pig and sell it as a contender soon.
- mohel

Could also mean there has been a discussion that we don't know about and both Kane and Toews said they don't want to be traded and want to retire as Blackhawks. I could see Jones being traded not very many teams he could go to but Ottawa could be a fit.

I think Jones could be traded this season without his consent (10 team list he can't be traded to).

What this means, imo, is that those in charge don't want to part with him. If he, Kane and Toews are the untouchables, it smells to me like they're still trying to put perfume on this pig and sell it as a contender soon.
- mohel

My concern too. Toews is not a top 10 #1 center anymore. Trying to build around those 3 is a foul's errand. You also don't have a Seabrook type to stay at home and permit Jones to roam around and flourish as a top pairing guy.

I actaully think we might be underating ryder rolston. I think he ends up top 3-4 of forwards we have in our system. he has solid size and a very good skater and a good shoot. barrett does not have any NHL skills other then he is hard worker. AA has 2 goals in 22 games this year in the AHL.

I think he was pretty involved in the org before that. Obviously the old man was involved to a certain extent even towards the end (since they weren't on TV until he died) - but I think more of that was delegated sooner then you would think.
- fattybeef

Interesting article regarding the succession process after Bill Wirtz passed away in 2007. Sounds as if Rocky wasn't involved with the team much until after his father passed away. Rocky's younger brother Peter was a team VP for several years and seemed destined to run the team, but Rocky moved in and took over.

https://www.chicagomag.co...ember-2008/The-Breakaway/

@Account4hockey
Frank Seravalli says on SN650 that Kane, Toews, and Seth Jones are the only untouchables for CHI. If you want to take a run at trading for anyone else, they'll listen.

So a blockbuster with DBC included??? This surprises me as it's not really in line with a rebuilding team approach. Unless, they've already talked to all three of those players and all nixed a trade.
- pdx2ord

So maybe discussions have taken place with Fleury and he has agreed to be moved?