Coots is here, he's under contract, he wants to be here. Might as well keep him to soak up minutes and shield the kids a bit.

Other teams simply didn't have that luxury. Or they did (ROR, Stone) but the player didn't wanna stick around for the rebuild. Or they're like Montreal and they (frank)ed the cap up so bad they let their guy slip away (Danault).

LA has both Kopi and Danault now... is their rebuild (frank)ed?


And I dunno what's with this weird poop about mentors and mentees you keep going on about. I'm just talking about guys picking up the big minutes so the kids don't get reamed..
- Tomahawk

What kind of logic is that? Are you serious?

To establish that we are talking about the same thing, and make things precise, why don;t you tell me who exactly it is that needs such sheltering? And what the time period is of that need?

if someone is going to give you a huge haul for coots i would think you have to evaluate it, but he isnt someone i look to move just to move. if you go the rebuilding route, his contract shouldnt be overly onerous.

without speaking for PT, i know one of his reasons is to avoid the season standings points that coots will single handedly accumulate over a replacement level player. i know you and i dont see tanking exactly the same, and its impossible to view it in a complete vacuum, but what if it was somehow boiled down to coots remaining on the team being why the flyers miss out on bedard?

i do think you still need good veterans to some extent to insulate the young guys. its a tricky balance that requires a heck of a lot of luck/timing and there definitely isnt a one size fits all blueprint.
- stayinthefnnet

Yup, leave it up to the blood sucking Pens fan to make the most nuanced argument.


If the Flyers are already this directionless and hopeless, I don't think Coots is gonna severely impact their draft position on his own. Hart is probably the guy who will damage draft position the most, but goalies don't grow on trees and he's only 23... meh.

Plus, if they ever do corral a group of kids worth building around, you don't want them going all Lord of the Flies like the Hall/Yakupov era Oilers did.

What kind of logic is that? Are you serious?

To establish that we are talking about the same thing, and make things precise, why don;t you tell me who exactly it is that needs such sheltering? And what the time period is of that need?
- PT21

We're clearly not talking about the same thing.

if someone is going to give you a huge haul for coots i would think you have to evaluate it, but he isnt someone i look to move just to move. if you go the rebuilding route, his contract shouldnt be overly onerous.

without speaking for PT, i know one of his reasons is to avoid the season standings points that coots will single handedly accumulate over a replacement level player. i know you and i dont see tanking exactly the same, and its impossible to view it in a complete vacuum, but what if it was somehow boiled down to coots remaining on the team being why the flyers miss out on bedard?

i do think you still need good veterans to some extent to insulate the young guys. its a tricky balance that requires a heck of a lot of luck/timing and there definitely isnt a one size fits all blueprint.
- stayinthefnnet

Tanking is a clear definition in sports. Of course you would have to evaluate a deal. Gretky was traded. If you're given a deal that you simply can't pass up then you should make it.
I personally feel that success breeds success. Having a losing atmosphere and young players not properly supported and given too much responsibility too soon is a cesspool of player eating bacteria.
Of course not all young players are the same. If you have a generational player like Crosby, well he's a star in the league from day 1 and does not fully need that support
As far as missing out on the #1 pick. There's a draft lottery now anyways.

Yup, leave it up to the blood sucking Pens fan to make the most nuanced argument.


If the Flyers are already this directionless and hopeless, I don't think Coots is gonna severely impact their draft position on his own. Hart is probably the guy who will damage draft position the most, but goalies don't grow on trees and he's only 23... meh.

Plus, if they ever do corral a group of kids worth building around, you don't want them going all Lord of the Flies like the Hall/Yakupov era Oilers did.
- Tomahawk

hey i can be impartial. fun case study. hope they still suck and all.

Tanking is a clear definition in sports. Of course you would have to evaluate a deal. Gretky was traded. If you're given a deal that you simply can't pass up then you should make it.
I personally feel that success breeds success. Having a losing atmosphere and young players not properly supported and given too much responsibility too soon is a cesspool of player eating bacteria.
Of course not all young players are the same. If you have a generational player like Crosby, well he's a star in the league from day 1 and does not fully need that support
As far as missing out on the #1 pick. There's a draft lottery now anyways.
- MJL

yeah, exactly. which makes it tougher to say for certainty.

im also with you on success breeding success. look at jacksonville in the nfl. i understand the top talent goes to bad teams, but some organizations are just continually rotten and perpetually adrift. its not a stretch to imagine coots being a guy that can help prevent that from taking hold.

we dont need to re-litigate the tanking thing, but i dont think its always as printed up in ink as the rangers made it or as blatant as the pens.

'The point is don't complain that mcewen is crap. Complain how he is being used. As everyone has been, but don't redirect it on him. He is doing his job fine.
There's no issue with mcewen at all.
- bradster

Agree 100%! Do those who are complaining about MacEwen understand that he wouldn't be getting the extra ice time if Coots, Hayes, etc were healthy? I'm still new to posting but have been amused for years at the disdain here for 4th line players. Who do they expect we replace our current 4th liners with? I'm not a Yeo fan, but he doesn't have many options right now.

We're clearly not talking about the same thing.
- Tomahawk

So, why not tell me what it is you are talking about. I am genuinely trying to understand.

Here is a common sense query: You said you would keep Couts and Hart, and be prepared to trade everybody. That means you are prepared to lose most of our current youth, hypothetically speaking.

This means Couts will mostly mentor kids not yet on the Flyers. Some of these guys will be in the minors for a year or two. It will take a few years to even get them in the system, since you will only get 1-2 a year of kids who are ending up on the Flyers.

Why not get them in the system, then sign a 32 year old vet to take over the exact same things Couts would do at that time?

Do not want ex selke mentoring anyone. He is part of this losing environment. This acceptance of losing.
- hello it's me 2050

Definitely does not resemble my penis.
- PT21

But does it resemble your headless chicken?

This seems to be a thing with him.
- Tomahawk

Routinely.

yeah, exactly. which makes it tougher to say for certainty.

im also with you on success breeding success. look at jacksonville in the nfl. i understand the top talent goes to bad teams, but some organizations are just continually rotten and perpetually adrift. its not a stretch to imagine coots being a guy that can help prevent that from taking hold.

we dont need to re-litigate the tanking thing, but i dont think its always as printed up in ink as the rangers made it or as blatant as the pens.
- stayinthefnnet

I don't think the Rangers tanked in any way.

But does it resemble your headless chicken?
- Bendecko

Only when it goes over my head, such as now.

I don't think the Rangers tanked in any way.
- MJL

i know, and it just doesnt really add up to me. no worries though.

i know, and it just doesnt really add up to me. no worries though.
- stayinthefnnet

actually, the signing of panarin does cut the other way. but are we operating under the assumption that was a sure thing to occur when they began their sell off? ill admit my timeline isnt concrete there.

Agree 100%! Do those who are complaining about MacEwen understand that he wouldn't be getting the extra ice time if Coots, Hayes, etc were healthy? I'm still new to posting but have been amused for years at the disdain here for 4th line players. Who do they expect we replace our current 4th liners with? I'm not a Yeo fan, but he doesn't have many options right now.
- Don Nachbaur

The coach had other options than to play McEwen that much. With those options, any coach playing McEwen that much with the Flyers in the situation they are in, is a bad coach. However it's a symptom of the overall disease of the franchise. I don't think people have disdain for 4th line players. They have disdain for what they believe are poor 4th line players. How about the Flyers had kept Aube-Kubel instead of the waiver claim players they picked up for starters.

Speaking of Skinner. Say we move Giroux, JVR, Risto ect. What would it take for you to take Skinner off Buffalo's hands? Sure we could get quite the return to take on such a bad contract.

So, why not tell me what it is you are talking about. I am genuinely trying to understand.

Here is a common sense query: You said you would keep Couts and Hart, and be prepared to trade everybody. That means you are prepared to lose most of our current youth, hypothetically speaking.

This means Couts will mostly mentor kids not yet on the Flyers. Some of these guys will be in the minors for a year or two. It will take a few years to even get them in the system, since you will only get 1-2 a year of kids who are ending up on the Flyers.

Why not get them in the system, then sign a 32 year old vet to take over the exact same things Couts would do at that time?
- PT21

So you're suggesting a hypothetical where ALL of the young players on the team are traded? Here is a common sense query. Who would they be traded for? Or would they just be given away? Clearly Tomahawk was not suggested that the entire young roster of players would be traded. He is suggesting who is on his no trade list and who he would be willing to deal.

Good luck finding a #1 32 year old center who do what Couturier can do.

Only when it goes over my head, such as now.
- PT21

You could have used that unique head of yours to bother reading the captions.

EDIT: Or bothered taking a quick look at the wiki link

i know, and it just doesnt really add up to me. no worries though.
- stayinthefnnet

Well, they had a bedrock level of inelastic financial support they could count on. That allowed them to take the risk from a $ perspective.

Since 2015, almost everyone they signed was <25. Almost everyone they let go was >25. The correlation with age is quite striking once you look at the total list of guys departing and coming in during the Gorton era.

With salary cap freed up, they signed a few stars and took on a few prospects.

They got lucky.

The last however is not a passive thing. They were looking for luck. They sold their house to start that venture that panned out.

I think their infamous letter often clouds perspective. That letter pertains to Kakko and Alex L. They expected their rebuild to last longer. They did not expect the first few steps to yield results so soon.

Speaking of Skinner. Say we move Giroux, JVR, Risto ect. What would it take for you to take Skinner off Buffalo's hands? Sure we could get quite the return to take on such a bad contract.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Don't trust Fletch doing this.

Speaking of Skinner. Say we move Giroux, JVR, Risto ect. What would it take for you to take Skinner off Buffalo's hands? Sure we could get quite the return to take on such a bad contract.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

That's not the kind of deal you take on. He has 5 more years left at 9M.

You could have used that unique head of yours to bother reading the captions.

EDIT: Or bothered taking a quick look at the wiki link
- Bendecko

How exactly does a headless poulet use its head?

Just found out that Farabee is now out for a month. Are all these guys made of glass? I was listening to the NHL Network on Sirius/XM this afternoon and they were talking about how much of a rudderless ship the Flyers are. They also mentioned that the hapless Flyers have won 7 out of their last 30 games. I knew it has been bad, but I had no idea it has been that bad. WTF!!! They very well may be the worst team in the league as currently constructed.

Well, they had a bedrock level of inelastic financial support they could count on. That allowed them to take the risk from a $ perspective.

Since 2015, almost everyone they signed was <25. Almost everyone they let go was >25. The correlation with age is quite striking once you look at the total list of guys departing and coming in during the Gorton era.

With salary cap freed up, they signed a few stars and took on a few prospects.

They got lucky.

The last however is not a passive thing. They were looking for luck. They sold their house to start that venture that panned out.

I think their infamous letter often clouds perspective. That letter pertains to Kakko and Alex L. They expected their rebuild to last longer. They did not expect the first few steps to yield results so soon.
- PT21

i agree with this. they had a lot of the economic resources you touched on and definitely lucked out. which is why i dont think they are a great comparable when people are like oh just do it and rebuild already.

but to me, they conducted their business where winning in the here and now was a clear backseat to the future. im not speaking to the players out there/the coaches trying etc, but organizationally, the main objective at that moment in time is for the future with winning games a secondary priority.