Not all of it, but he’s been here for how long now? 3 years. The vast majority of this poop storm is on him. He put his stamp on the team last summer and it’s been a catastrophic failure. I don’t think you can argue the last point.
To be clear, I was very much hoping for fletch to be successful. I actually thought after 2020 that we would build on success and March toward being a consistent contender. I didn’t see this downturn coming especially with the moves this summer which I thought were logical. - Hextall271
None of us saw this coming, and anyone who states now they did is a big LIAR! Coming into this season, this team looked to rebound and be a contender. They looked to have the depth and improved talent to be a contender, it just has not worked out. Injuries, Covid, the coaching change; all of these things have played a major role in the downfall of this season. I understand as fans we are frustrated and its human nature to want or even have to point the finger at someone, but I am just pointing out its not all on Fletcher, he has tried to make this team better. When Fletcher signed AV to coach this team the fan base approved; after all we had a real NHL coach instead of a college coach, a coach who had won 700 games and been to the finals with two different franchises. We were happy when we got two former head coaches as assistant coaches, finally someone was going to fix the defense and the special teams on this club! There was real trepidation when Hayes was traded for and signed, but most of us understood that this team needed a 2nd line center with Schenn traded and Patrick not playing. Most of us were happy with the 2019 season, a year where the Flyers came within 1 win of the final 4 and was the best team in the league before it shutdown. Most of us were happy that Fletcher did little in that following off season and felt the team, especially the younger players, would take the next step in 2020. Then Covid hit and the 2020 season and team fell apart. Fletcher responded by making changes for the 2021 season that filled the obvious gaps on the team, including getting a true top pairing RHS defenseman, a true 2nd pairing defenseman who actually hits people, and a shoot first mentality goal scorer, all clear needs of this team coming into 2021. Well, here we are, it didn't work out the way we hoped. AV lost the team, his assistants were not much better, the Flyers best defenseman got hurt along with other key players and the season is a wash. It sucks, I get it. But completely blaming Fletcher for this mess is irrational and hysterical. He did a good job, it just didn't work out. It happens sometimes, that's why the season is played! Look, I still believe the Flyers would benefit from another outside voice and that is what I am calling for, because it a rational response to probably the worst season I have ever lived through as a Flyers fan.
None of us saw this coming, and anyone who states now they did is a big LIAR! Coming into this season, this team looked to rebound and be a contender. They looked to have the depth and improved talent to be a contender, it just has not worked out. Injuries, Covid, the coaching change; all of these things have played a major role in the downfall of this season. I understand as fans we are frustrated and its human nature to want or even have to point the finger at someone, but I am just pointing out its not all on Fletcher, he has tried to make this team better. When Fletcher signed AV to coach this team the fan base approved; after all we had a real NHL coach instead of a college coach, a coach who had won 700 games and been to the finals with two different franchises. We were happy when we got two former head coaches as assistant coaches, finally someone was going to fix the defense and the special teams on this club! There was real trepidation when Hayes was traded for and signed, but most of us understood that this team needed a 2nd line center with Schenn traded and Patrick not playing. Most of us were happy with the 2019 season, a year where the Flyers came within 1 win of the final 4 and was the best team in the league before it shutdown. Most of us were happy that Fletcher did little in that following off season and felt the team, especially the younger players, would take the next step in 2020. Then Covid hit and the 2020 season and team fell apart. Fletcher responded by making changes for the 2021 season that filled the obvious gaps on the team, including getting a true top pairing RHS defenseman, a true 2nd pairing defenseman who actually hits people, and a shoot first mentality goal scorer, all clear needs of this team coming into 2021. Well, here we are, it didn't work out the way we hoped. AV lost the team, his assistants were not much better, the Flyers best defenseman got hurt along with other key players and the season is a wash. It sucks, I get it. But completely blaming Fletcher for this mess is irrational and hysterical. He did a good job, it just didn't work out. It happens sometimes, that's why the season is played! Look, I still believe the Flyers would benefit from another outside voice and that is what I am calling for, because it a rational response to probably the worst season I have ever lived through as a Flyers fan. - jd250
I questioned the Fletcher hire from day way based on his track record in Minnesota. I knew Ellis would never stay healthy based on his injury history, age and the Flyers having a black cloud hanging over them.
On the heels of allowing 6+ goals 11 times in 56 games last year they have followed that up with this train wreck clown show. This franchise is the laughing stock of the NHL and don't let anyone tell you different.
Had that song in my head. It came out while I was married to my first wife. I'm 6'2". She's 5'1". Had a lot of fun with that. Turned out she lied about liking hockey and watching me play. Didn't like me watching either. My second wife understands.
This is a insanely hysterical reaction to a simple post that Hakstol was a better coach than many made him out to be.
Why would it be a black mark against anyone, in any profession to attempt to learn and better himself in any manner? - MJL
To me its not a black mark on Hakstol. I applaud him for embracing his next move in his career and wanting to improve. I am simply pointing out that after his tenure in Philly, he went and took a class from Babcock on how to be a head coach in the NHL. that should at least count for something when evaluating whether Hakstol was a good NHL coach when with the Flyers, right?
Expecting Scott to be fired and wanting Scott to be fired are two different things. How can you not know that.
Keeping Fletcher as President of hockey operations is not a change. It's kicking the can down the road.
As far as your comment that those calling for the changes are being insanely hysterical. Someone who had made the comments that you have made in the past, including recently that have been ridiculously wrong, has no standing to make such comment. It's a long, long list. - MJL
And there it is folks. When MJL is actually confronted with an opposing view he goes right to the personal attacks and misinformation campaign. Its typical and sad.
In the mean time, you just keep calling for Dave Scott's head and see where that gets you.
I questioned the Fletcher hire from day way based on his track record in Minnesota. I knew Ellis would never stay healthy based on his injury history, age and the Flyers having a black cloud hanging over them.
On the heels of allowing 6+ goals 11 times in 56 games last year they have followed that up with this train wreck clown show. This franchise is the laughing stock of the NHL and don't let anyone tell you different. - PLindbergh31
I think this is what you want to believe because it suits your narrative on this site. I think the franchise is going through a really rough stretch, but they are not the first franchise to go through a stretch like this and they will not be the last. I know its no fun right now to be a fan, but I guarantee you its even less fun to be a player, a coach, or an executive right now.
Had that song in my head. It came out while I was married to my first wife. I'm 6'2". She's 5'1". Had a lot of fun with that. Turned out she lied about liking hockey and watching me play. Didn't like me watching either. My second wife understands. - jaws1955
I don't have to tell you what that's about. Regardless of her stature, your first wife may have reflected to a certain extant the meaning of the song.
I think this is what you want to believe because it suits your narrative on this site. I think the franchise is going through a really rough stretch, but they are not the first franchise to go through a stretch like this and they will not be the last. I know its no fun right now to be a fan, but I guarantee you its even less fun to be a player, a coach, or an executive right now. - jd250
My narrative, and what I want to believe? They are the first team in NHL history with two 10 game losing streaks in the first 40 games of a season. This on the heels of a non competitive decade, and going on a 50 year cup drought. Give me a break it's a joke.
None of us saw this coming, and anyone who states now they did is a big LIAR! Coming into this season, this team looked to rebound and be a contender. They looked to have the depth and improved talent to be a contender, it just has not worked out. Injuries, Covid, the coaching change; all of these things have played a major role in the downfall of this season. I understand as fans we are frustrated and its human nature to want or even have to point the finger at someone, but I am just pointing out its not all on Fletcher, he has tried to make this team better. When Fletcher signed AV to coach this team the fan base approved; after all we had a real NHL coach instead of a college coach, a coach who had won 700 games and been to the finals with two different franchises. We were happy when we got two former head coaches as assistant coaches, finally someone was going to fix the defense and the special teams on this club! There was real trepidation when Hayes was traded for and signed, but most of us understood that this team needed a 2nd line center with Schenn traded and Patrick not playing. Most of us were happy with the 2019 season, a year where the Flyers came within 1 win of the final 4 and was the best team in the league before it shutdown. Most of us were happy that Fletcher did little in that following off season and felt the team, especially the younger players, would take the next step in 2020. Then Covid hit and the 2020 season and team fell apart. Fletcher responded by making changes for the 2021 season that filled the obvious gaps on the team, including getting a true top pairing RHS defenseman, a true 2nd pairing defenseman who actually hits people, and a shoot first mentality goal scorer, all clear needs of this team coming into 2021. Well, here we are, it didn't work out the way we hoped. AV lost the team, his assistants were not much better, the Flyers best defenseman got hurt along with other key players and the season is a wash. It sucks, I get it. But completely blaming Fletcher for this mess is irrational and hysterical. He did a good job, it just didn't work out. It happens sometimes, that's why the season is played! Look, I still believe the Flyers would benefit from another outside voice and that is what I am calling for, because it a rational response to probably the worst season I have ever lived through as a Flyers fan. - jd250
I'll answer this on a point by point basis as best as I can.
I agree I don't think anyone saw this team being this bad, myself included. I thought they had a chance to be improved.
As far as looking to have the depth and talent to be a contender. You bought into that kool aid and I knew that they weren't going to be a contender. I knew that they were taking the wrong approach and I said so all Summer into the season.
As far as the moves. I knew and said so that something wasn't right with the Ellis deal and repeatedly posted that the deal was risky.
I told you that Ristolainen was a mediocre 2nd paid defenseman who lacked hockey sense that the Flyers drastically overpaid for. Robert Haag hits people. Should've kept him.
As far as Covid. I gave the team that excuse in the past. I was wrong. That dog don't hunt.
As far as Vigneault is concerned. I was happy when they hired him and advocated for it. I was obviously wrong about that choice. Overall he did a lousy job and Dave Hakstol, a college coach got more out of his teams than AV did.
You continue to insinuate that Fletcher is getting all the blame. Simply not the case. Fletcher hasn't done a good job. To keep saying that he has, is having blinders on. He is not fully to blame though. However suggesting keeping Fletcher is not a rational response. It is irrational.
To me its not a black mark on Hakstol. I applaud him for embracing his next move in his career and wanting to improve. I am simply pointing out that after his tenure in Philly, he went and took a class from Babcock on how to be a head coach in the NHL. that should at least count for something when evaluating whether Hakstol was a good NHL coach when with the Flyers, right? - jd250
No, it is irrelevant to whether he was a good coach or not. If a Doctor takes a class to learn to become a better Doctor, does that mean he wasn't a good Doctor?
And there it is folks. When MJL is actually confronted with an opposing view he goes right to the personal attacks and misinformation campaign. Its typical and sad.
In the mean time, you just keep calling for Dave Scott's head and see where that gets you. - jd250
There is no misinformation campaign. I responded as such due you calling other opinions hysterically insane.
Someone who has stated that the Flyers traded the problem players and changed the culture. Fletcher traded the team to contention. Ristolainen is one of the best defenseman in the NHL. You have no interest in Marner because he hasn't put up more than 60 points and hasn't played 82 games in covid shortened seasons. Claims that McEwen makes a major impact. Gets just about every coverage error incorrect in goals against, has no standing to reply in that manner. This is just off of the top of my head. The list is endless. Had you simply disagreed, I would not have responded in that manner.
As I told you previously, I am under no illusion that the Flyers are going to do what needs to be done.
Had that song in my head. It came out while I was married to my first wife. I'm 6'2". She's 5'1". Had a lot of fun with that. Turned out she lied about liking hockey and watching me play. Didn't like me watching either. My second wife understands. - jaws1955
I think this is what you want to believe because it suits your narrative on this site. I think the franchise is going through a really rough stretch, but they are not the first franchise to go through a stretch like this and they will not be the last. I know its no fun right now to be a fan, but I guarantee you its even less fun to be a player, a coach, or an executive right now. - jd250
is there a single person on this board who would not trade their profession to be any one of those things? serious question
None of us saw this coming, and anyone who states now they did is a big LIAR! Coming into this season, this team looked to rebound and be a contender. They looked to have the depth and improved talent to be a contender, it just has not worked out. Injuries, Covid, the coaching change; all of these things have played a major role in the downfall of this season. I understand as fans we are frustrated and its human nature to want or even have to point the finger at someone, but I am just pointing out its not all on Fletcher, he has tried to make this team better. When Fletcher signed AV to coach this team the fan base approved; after all we had a real NHL coach instead of a college coach, a coach who had won 700 games and been to the finals with two different franchises. We were happy when we got two former head coaches as assistant coaches, finally someone was going to fix the defense and the special teams on this club! There was real trepidation when Hayes was traded for and signed, but most of us understood that this team needed a 2nd line center with Schenn traded and Patrick not playing. Most of us were happy with the 2019 season, a year where the Flyers came within 1 win of the final 4 and was the best team in the league before it shutdown. Most of us were happy that Fletcher did little in that following off season and felt the team, especially the younger players, would take the next step in 2020. Then Covid hit and the 2020 season and team fell apart. Fletcher responded by making changes for the 2021 season that filled the obvious gaps on the team, including getting a true top pairing RHS defenseman, a true 2nd pairing defenseman who actually hits people, and a shoot first mentality goal scorer, all clear needs of this team coming into 2021. Well, here we are, it didn't work out the way we hoped. AV lost the team, his assistants were not much better, the Flyers best defenseman got hurt along with other key players and the season is a wash. It sucks, I get it. But completely blaming Fletcher for this mess is irrational and hysterical. He did a good job, it just didn't work out. It happens sometimes, that's why the season is played! Look, I still believe the Flyers would benefit from another outside voice and that is what I am calling for, because it a rational response to probably the worst season I have ever lived through as a Flyers fan. - jd250
There is something to what you say. It should remembered that their 1RHD has been out for almost the entirety. Their 1C and 2C have played hurt or been out. These are huge body blows.
Having said that, it should also be noted those guys, if present, AT BEST, would have lifted this team to a bubble team. You can see how bad the talent level is. We are daily getting out-talented by pretty much every team in the NHL.
Under those circumstances, which it is the GM's responsibility to discern, the moves like Hayes and Risto and so were indefensible.
There is something to what you say. It should remembered that their 1RHD has been out for almost the entirety. Their 1C and 2C have played hurt or been out. These are huge body blows.
Having said that, it should also be noted those guys, if present, AT BEST, would have lifted this team to a bubble team. You can see how bad the talent level is. We are daily getting out-talented by pretty much every team in the NHL.
Under those circumstances, which it is the GM's responsibility to discern, the moves like Hayes and Risto and so were indefensible. - PT21
This is not just about a talent disparity. Coaching is also a major factor. They don't play with any continuity or synchronization. It also is a major confidence issue. They aren't confident in themselves because they've known for a long time that they can't play the system.
i dont keep a rolling roladex on personal information like you tend to haha but from what i recall you are an educator of some sort? i wont venture about what you make as its not my place and the realm of education has a potentially enormous variance where its virtually impossible to just simply guess with any accuracy. but it is fair to say your not wanting to trade is rooted in some sort of vocational calling you have for the role that isnt boiled down to only money?
you are very fortunate if so as i dont think it is a stretch to assume in today's america most people dont have that, or at least anywhere close to the extent that they wouldnt jump at the chance to do something infinitely cooler like actually be a GM or a professional athlete. (and thats not even taking the financials into consideration, which again, without judging anyone on this board, i dont think is unfair to say most of us dont come close to)
