They also have a very good young core and Chychrun fits in to that.
- landros 2

I have not watched a min of Arizona this season. Why are Chychrun's #s so off the charts bad?

To me, Clarke was exaggerating to make a point.

The consensus in the league was the 2 forwards followed by the 2 d-men.

The problem was there were some scouts who did like the d-men better. Some scouts also thought Patrick was more of a 2 line center and not a star to build around.

To see that Makar has a chance to score 30 goals this season...as a d-man. Man that hurts.
- Captain_Ahab

Considering he went 4th overall, the Flyers have plenty of company. The myth is that everyone but Hextall knew Makar was going to be the best player out of the 2017 draft (so far) but 2 other teams also passed on him. It is rare for everyone to agree on a single player which is why they pay someone to make a decision. What is total bull is that no one wanted Patrick or that some scouts rated him as a #2 center before the draft. That is revisionist history.

Most of this is to deflect blame and protect ego. Did Hexy pick the wrong player? Yes. Should he have known better? No. Has Fletcher totally destroyed what remained of this team? Yes. Does Clarke, who brought in and vouched for Fletcher, have a vested interest in deflecting from Fletcher's mistakes? Abso-fing-lutely.

Any player that is taken onto salary here, needs to be vetted by qualified sports medicine sorts until they haven't a test left to abuse them with.
The fragility of the team physically has been my focus. That we draft midgets who play big is not demonstrating a recognition of physics.
Sure, you might LUCK out and find one that is durable, but considering our lack of drafting success, awfully chancy.
Speed kills as long as your legs work.
How about we settle on a frame that can incorporate qualities that will last.
Injuries happen but how about we get guys who don't bump and then bruise.
Let's never sign another fading 'star', unless we need the lift for a SC challenge.
Having Yandle was cheap (NTC? WTF?) and perhaps the worse contract ever. Why did we accept this 'moral' obligation to MAKE his record he ill-deserves?
I live in Tampa Bay. Being a Philly fan makes me question my sanity.
I also think I understand the pressures Bill must be feeling. What we all discover, 'No matter how hard you FEEL, it isn't enough to make a clock tick', but enough for some muffled screaming and transient high blood pressure.
I figure one more year of this BS and that will wrap up sports as a pastime for me.

Considering he went 4th overall, the Flyers have plenty of company. The myth is that everyone but Hextall knew Makar was going to be the best player out of the 2017 draft (so far) but 2 other teams also passed on him. It is rare for everyone to agree on a single player which is why they pay someone to make a decision. What is total bull is that no one wanted Patrick or that some scouts rated him as a #2 center before the draft. That is revisionist history.

Most of this is to deflect blame and protect ego. Did Hexy pick the wrong player? Yes. Should he have known better? No. Has Fletcher totally destroyed what remained of this team? Yes. Does Clarke, who brought in and vouched for Fletcher, have a vested interest in deflecting from Fletcher's mistakes? Abso-fing-lutely.
- Flyers_01

We're on the same page here. What's funny is that there were reports that Sakic was unhappy about having to pick Makar. He wanted Heiskanen. 3 teams passed on Makar.

Not sure AV had the players to play another system…I agree though the dump and chase is not fun to watch when the other team just skates it in to your zone after you give up the puck. They just aren’t a fun team to watch. (Especially now)lol.
- landros 2

I really agree with this. The New York Rangers under AV did not just go up the boards and/or dump the puck. They had some guys who could fly: Hagelin, St. Louis, Zuccarelo. They had some playmakers: Richards, Stepan. They had a scorer in Nash. A very good guy in the transition game: McDonagh.

They did not play a perimeter game at all.

I think its the personnel that dictates both style and results far more than coaching.

Considering he went 4th overall, the Flyers have plenty of company. The myth is that everyone but Hextall knew Makar was going to be the best player out of the 2017 draft (so far) but 2 other teams also passed on him. It is rare for everyone to agree on a single player which is why they pay someone to make a decision. What is total bull is that no one wanted Patrick or that some scouts rated him as a #2 center before the draft. That is revisionist history.

Most of this is to deflect blame and protect ego. Did Hexy pick the wrong player? Yes. Should he have known better? No. Has Fletcher totally destroyed what remained of this team? Yes. Does Clarke, who brought in and vouched for Fletcher, have a vested interest in deflecting from Fletcher's mistakes? Abso-fing-lutely.
- Flyers_01

Sir. Dunno where you came from and who you are, but please continue posting.

I really agree with this. The New York Rangers under AV did not just go up the boards and/or dump the puck. They had some guys who could fly: Hagelin, St. Louis, Zuccarelo. They had some playmakers: Richards, Stepan. They had a scorer in Nash. A very good guy in the transition game: McDonagh.

They did not play a perimeter game at all.

I think its the personnel that dictates both style and results far more than coaching.
- PT21

NHL veteran coaches normally don't vary their system. They play the same system across multiple teams.
When you look at the way the Flyers continue to play today, along with a knowledge of systems. It's pretty easy to see some changes that need to and should be made. For example, and you have commented on this, the Flyers archaic breakout strategy.

Asf saying the oilers offered a lowball draft pick for Jones and countered with a higher pick to no avail.

Asf saying the oilers offered a lowball draft pick for Jones and countered with a higher pick to no avail.
- Hextall271

Was he specific on the pick?

Considering he went 4th overall, the Flyers have plenty of company. The myth is that everyone but Hextall knew Makar was going to be the best player out of the 2017 draft (so far) but 2 other teams also passed on him. It is rare for everyone to agree on a single player which is why they pay someone to make a decision. What is total bull is that no one wanted Patrick or that some scouts rated him as a #2 center before the draft. That is revisionist history.

Most of this is to deflect blame and protect ego. Did Hexy pick the wrong player? Yes. Should he have known better? No. Has Fletcher totally destroyed what remained of this team? Yes. Does Clarke, who brought in and vouched for Fletcher, have a vested interest in deflecting from Fletcher's mistakes? Abso-fing-lutely.
- Flyers_01

Completely agree. Well said. I’d love to hear from the colorado scouts off the record. I wonder if they had him as the consensus number 1 sure fire generational talent? If they’re being honest, I bet they laugh and say nope.

Was he specific on the pick?
- MJL

No. The words were lowball draft pick offer. Flyers countered with a higher pick request which was turned down.

Edmonton must be crazy desperate but I will tel you what. I can only remember 1 or maybe 2 other games where Jones struggled on top of last night.

He has played very well imo. I like his game. Very calm in his movements and good rebound control when he’s on. He’s be an upgrade on koskinen for sure

Yes.

10 years is long enough.

Diff coaches. same result.
Diff gms. same result.
Players over-rated/over-valued.

10 years. The one constant is Corporate Comcast. No identity. No personality. Doesn't help either.


- Captain_Ahab

I agree with the Comcast identity and personality absence. But does that really have much to do with it? It might actually, I am open to persuasion, but there are a lot of single (human) owner sports franchises that contentedly wallow in mediocrity. Is there any correlation between corporate ownership and poor results? I am not aware.

Any player that is taken onto salary here, needs to be vetted by qualified sports medicine sorts until they haven't a test left to abuse them with.
The fragility of the team physically has been my focus. That we draft midgets who play big is not demonstrating a recognition of physics.
Sure, you might LUCK out and find one that is durable, but considering our lack of drafting success, awfully chancy.
Speed kills as long as your legs work.
How about we settle on a frame that can incorporate qualities that will last.
Injuries happen but how about we get guys who don't bump and then bruise.
Let's never sign another fading 'star', unless we need the lift for a SC challenge.
Having Yandle was cheap (NTC? WTF?) and perhaps the worse contract ever. Why did we accept this 'moral' obligation to MAKE his record he ill-deserves?
I live in Tampa Bay. Being a Philly fan makes me question my sanity.
I also think I understand the pressures Bill must be feeling. What we all discover, 'No matter how hard you FEEL, it isn't enough to make a clock tick', but enough for some muffled screaming and transient high blood pressure.
I figure one more year of this BS and that will wrap up sports as a pastime for me.
- Pompous

Excellent thoughts....agree 100%
Wasn't there a recent study on drugs sleeping pills etc for our team vs Pens?
Are the slow starts and complete apathy completely drug induced?
If any one out there has taken a Xanax or a sleeping pill or worse together you sure would know how cloudy your melon can be.

I agree with the Comcast identity and personality absence. But does that really have much to do with it? It might actually, I am open to persuasion, but there are a lot of single (human) owner sports franchises that contentedly wallow in mediocrity. Is there any correlation between corporate ownership and poor results? I am not aware.
- PT21

Who cares about a correlation. As Flyers fans, we know that Ed Snider as a team owner had a huge desire to win and did everything he could to try and win. That is what Flyers fans are used to and want. I don't think current ownership cares. The hockey department does, they just don't know how. That's a different conversation.

Any player that is taken onto salary here, needs to be vetted by qualified sports medicine sorts until they haven't a test left to abuse them with.
The fragility of the team physically has been my focus. That we draft midgets who play big is not demonstrating a recognition of physics.
Sure, you might LUCK out and find one that is durable, but considering our lack of drafting success, awfully chancy.
Speed kills as long as your legs work.
How about we settle on a frame that can incorporate qualities that will last.
Injuries happen but how about we get guys who don't bump and then bruise.
Let's never sign another fading 'star', unless we need the lift for a SC challenge.
Having Yandle was cheap (NTC? WTF?) and perhaps the worse contract ever. Why did we accept this 'moral' obligation to MAKE his record he ill-deserves?
I live in Tampa Bay. Being a Philly fan makes me question my sanity.
I also think I understand the pressures Bill must be feeling. What we all discover, 'No matter how hard you FEEL, it isn't enough to make a clock tick', but enough for some muffled screaming and transient high blood pressure.
I figure one more year of this BS and that will wrap up sports as a pastime for me.
- Pompous

Oh BTW
Midgets ins't the proper nomenclature. Tiny Americans "dude"

I had a horrible thought...I wonder if the deal Nashville made sending Ellis here was payback for the offer sheet on Weber and there was medical information that was held back or clouded...Missing the whole friggin season essentially... Either that or he and/or his wife hate it here and trying to force a way out...and he will magically become his relatively healthy old self once somewhere else....

And as everyone else has danced around.. perhaps the reason for the core injuries to Hayes and perhaps others is the result of specific "training and strengthening drills in practice by AV's staff" -my words, not game related.....

I had a horrible thought...I wonder if the deal Nashville made sending Ellis here was payback for the offer sheet on Weber and there was medical information that was held back or clouded...Missing the whole friggin season essentially... Either that or he and/or his wife hate it here and trying to force a way out...and he will magically become his relatively healthy old self once somewhere else....


- RajaAmpat

To your first point, a team caught doing that would face significant consequences. As to your second point, who would trade for Ellis now? Ellis surely knows that.

Who cares about a correlation. As Flyers fans, we know that Ed Snider as a team owner had a huge desire to win and did everything he could to try and win. That is what Flyers fans are used to and want. I don't think current ownership cares. The hockey department does, they just don't know how. That's a different conversation.
- MJL

Mr Snider was a man with a vision and put together money to get this franchise.
He is unlike today's Billionaires who may not quite share Mr Snider's vision, wants or desires.
I lived in LA with one of the first So called Billionaires Bruce Mcnall bought the kings,
He was a big hockey fan and he did buy Gretzky.
I would hope there is a Billionaire out there that would share in Mr Snider's vision of a Franchise, i'd even settle for Mcnall's effort.

I had a horrible thought...I wonder if the deal Nashville made sending Ellis here was payback for the offer sheet on Weber and there was medical information that was held back or clouded...Missing the whole friggin season essentially... Either that or he and/or his wife hate it here and trying to force a way out...and he will magically become his relatively healthy old self once somewhere else....

And as everyone else has danced around.. perhaps the reason for the core injuries to Hayes and perhaps others is the result of specific "training and strengthening drills in practice by AV's staff" -my words, not game related.....
- RajaAmpat

Yes I know other teams have core issues before i say this, but I don't follow other teams.
I have thought it is our ice surfaces that we play and practice on. We seem to have more core surgeries per capita since like forever.

Yes again I know its a core sport.
I just feel the scale is tipped unfavorably for some reason.

To your first point, a team caught doing that would face significant consequences. As to your second point, who would trade for Ellis now? Ellis surely knows that.
- MJL

If he could just play in a few games, maybe just maybe someone sees him as a last piece of depth needed for a deeper run.
On can dream.

I had a horrible thought...I wonder if the deal Nashville made sending Ellis here was payback for the offer sheet on Weber and there was medical information that was held back or clouded...Missing the whole friggin season essentially... Either that or he and/or his wife hate it here and trying to force a way out...and he will magically become his relatively healthy old self once somewhere else....

And as everyone else has danced around.. perhaps the reason for the core injuries to Hayes and perhaps others is the result of specific "training and strengthening drills in practice by AV's staff" -my words, not game related.....
- RajaAmpat

You are an imaginative guy, with the sly "planned tank" comment of a few days ago, that I feel in retrospect I was a little too hasty in dismissing out of hand.

I think the comment made by Black Francis the other day (from his source) makes the most sense to me. Flyers knew they were getting a potential #1D with a potentially significant injury risk.

They understood that is why the price was so low, and because they were in a desperate situation (needing not one but *two* RHD in the top 4 of line up to desperately salvage the accumulation of poor decisions over the past decade, including those made by Hextall), they took the risk.

It went belly up, but no one was fleeced, no one was surprised, and no one engaged in subterfuge. Or payback.

To your first point, a team caught doing that would face significant consequences. As to your second point, who would trade for Ellis now? Ellis surely knows that.
- MJL

I cannot take this at face value...sorry... Someone screwed the pooch with this deal at the medical level... and if it is a "core injury" there is a lot of smoke going on... I have zero trust for the medical and training staff

Ellis will get a payoff from insurance on his contract if he is medically unfit...maybe the best they can do is trade his contract to someone to get to the cap floor and he goes on permanent LTIR.... I wouldnt trust him to pick up a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk based on how brittle he appears to be

I have not watched a min of Arizona this season. Why are Chychrun's #s so off the charts bad?
- PT21

AZ is a horrendous team. Take Flyers and double the ineptitude and you have AZ

You are an imaginative guy, with the sly "planned tank" comment of a few days ago, that I feel in retrospect I was a little too hasty in dismissing out of hand.

I think the comment made by Black Francis the other day (from his source) makes the most sense to me. Flyers knew they were getting a potential #1D with a potentially significant injury risk.

They understood that is why the price was so low, and because they were in a desperate situation (needing not one but *two* RHD in the top 4 of line up to desperately salvage the accumulation of poor decisions over the past decade, including those made by Hextall), they took the risk.

It went belly up, but no one was fleeced, no one was surprised, and no one engaged in subterfuge. Or payback.
- PT21

No, the Flyers were definitely fleeced. Common sense alone should have moved them off of that deal. I agree completely though that they were desperate. That's what happens when you trade from that possiton.

I cannot take this at face value...sorry... Someone screwed the pooch with this deal at the medical level... and if it is a "core injury" there is a lot of smoke going on... I have zero trust for the medical and training staff

Ellis will get a payoff from insurance on his contract if he is medically unfit...maybe the best they can do is trade his contract to someone to get to the cap floor and he goes on permanent LTIR.... I wouldnt trust him to pick up a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk based on how brittle he appears to be
- RajaAmpat

Did the Flyers medical staff make the wrong recommendation? Possibly. However that is quite different from a team hiding medical issues from another team.

Ellis doesn't need to collect insurance. He is due his pay injured or not. The Flyers would be the party who might get payoff from insurance should he be out permanently.