Exactly, he didn’t draft any game changers. You can’t win in this league without top end talent
- ClaudeFather

The obvious miss was with Patrick but where the Flyers were drafting during the Hextall era, they got the players that you would expect to get for the most part.

Ahh the Internet where people argue against things you didn’t say. I never said they were terrible, I said they weren’t first line talent. Do you consider Konecny and Farabee 1st line wingers? Provorov has proved he isn’t a #1 defenseman and needs a good partner to be effective as a 1st pair guy. Sanheims 2nd pair. Is Noah Cates a 1st line center? Hart is a legit starter but let’s not anoint him as the next Bernie when he hasn’t finished in the top 20 in save percentage the last 3 seasons.

It is funny you mentioned how former Flyers go on to have more success. Have you noticed they play supporting roles to the top line players on their new teams. Richards and Carter played behind future HOF Kopitar in LA. Schenn was the 2nd line center behind ROR (should of been here but for some reason the brass though he was more of a winger) on a team with Pietrangelo and Taransenko. That should show you the importance of slotting. Imagine if Provorov played behind Makar or Heiskanen.
- psuhockey

Konecny has shown to have 25 goal 60 point ability. Farabee is still developing but already has a 20 goal season. I believe on a good team, he can be a 30-30 player. Provorov is a top pairing defenseman. Do you know how difficult it is to finish with a high SV% playing on a team that is awful defensively as a team?

Its beyond a joke, Willman, Sundin, Bunnaman, Mayhew and Frost. These are the best players the Flyers currently have in their system? These players represent all the depth and young studs we have been told about since Hextall started drafting in 2014? This is what we have to show for it?? And Mayhew, a 27 year old career AHL player, is the best of the group!!
- jd250

At least Mayhew seems to have some confidence to at least try and make plays.

Sorry but the ones I mentioned all seem to fit your description. Since you think that all IP needs is a competent partner to be a 1st pair guy, it seems like you agree. I did not anoint CH but he also seems to meet your test unless it is now whether he is an HOF goalie. You may have missed this, but Carter is looking like an HOF guy and it would have been nice to have him do that here. Sort of like RBA, Williams, Forsberg. Players we had and made the wrong call on. I agree about Heisky but NP was a consensus top pick Clarkie's revisionism notwithstanding. You failed to mention our surfeit of great goalie prospects. Having 3 guys like that is a little better than just having Stolarz in your farm system, wouldn't you agree?
- iamscore2day

keep carter and Richards. Lose ex selk Jake schenn and simmonds.

Is the team any better? Your whining about trading players who win a cup elsewhere is pure entertainment.

Of the great goalie prospects which do you think will have an NHL career?

AHL’ers Willman & Mayhew have has many goals as offensive defenseman Travis Pukeheim. Just waiting to round into form. Any day now
- Fopa21

When I saw Sanheim get bullied by 5'4" Nathan Mighty Mouse Gerbe, I cashed out. He's worse than I thought he'd be.

Ahh the Internet where people argue against things you didn’t say. I never said they were terrible, I said they weren’t first line talent. Do you consider Konecny and Farabee 1st line wingers? Provorov has proved he isn’t a #1 defenseman and needs a good partner to be effective as a 1st pair guy. Sanheims 2nd pair. Is Noah Cates a 1st line center? Hart is a legit starter but let’s not anoint him as the next Bernie when he hasn’t finished in the top 20 in save percentage the last 3 seasons.

It is funny you mentioned how former Flyers go on to have more success. Have you noticed they play supporting roles to the top line players on their new teams. Richards and Carter played behind future HOF Kopitar in LA. Schenn was the 2nd line center behind ROR (should of been here but for some reason the brass though he was more of a winger) on a team with Pietrangelo and Taransenko. That should show you the importance of slotting. Imagine if Provorov played behind Makar or Heiskanen.
- psuhockey

Agree with it all….but Sanheim as a second pairing? That might be his ceiling.

Konecny has shown to have 25 goal 60 point ability. Farabee is still developing but already has a 20 goal season. I believe on a good team, he can be a 30-30 player. Provorov is a top pairing defenseman. Do you know how difficult it is to finish with a high SV% playing on a team that is awful defensively as a team?
- MJL

also looks to be a complete anomaly.

Travis Sanheim stinks
- ClaudeFather

On the flyers they fit that description. Cant say they do for every NHL team.

When you trade away those players for picks you are then fielding a non competitive team at that moment are you not? Are you then not looking to get a higher pick? All semantics Cliff.
- hello it's me 2050

i love we are talking hextall and the definition of tanking again. Maybe we can do it again in a week from today.

Konecny has shown to have 25 goal 60 point ability. Farabee is still developing but already has a 20 goal season. I believe on a good team, he can be a 30-30 player. Provorov is a top pairing defenseman. Do you know how difficult it is to finish with a high SV% playing on a team that is awful defensively as a team?
- MJL

I think its time for a reality check here. I like Farabee and TK, and I am on record that I hope the Flyers will keep them. However I think one of the problems we have is we overrate our own players.

Do either of these players look like top 6 players to you?

Farabee: 11g, 7A, 18 points in 33 games
TK: 7G, 17A, 24 points in 41 games

And is this the definition of a top paring defenseman?

Provorov: 5G, 11A, 16 points -8 in 40 games

Hart I give you, he has played very well but the team in front of him is awful!

Agree with it all….but Sanheim as a second pairing? That might be his ceiling.
- landros 2

At best Sanheim is a poor man's 2nd pairing

It helps to draft a couple of elite players like Matthews and Marner. What have the Leafs won?

Most high potential players start off in the NHL. Example for the Flyers would be Provorov, Konecny, Patrick, etc. Sanheim needed a little over a season. Farabee played 5 games for the Phantoms. Frost was a different situation due to the injury and needed some more AHL time after missing a full season. So what are you talking about?




Yes, getting a top pair defenseman, a 2nd pair defenseman, 2 top 6 level forwards, a #1 NHL goalie as well as drafting a total of 10 NHL players not counting Allison who is definitely an NHL player but can't stay healthy. Outside chance that O'Brien might make it. That's good drafting. Not great but good. He obviously was not able to add an elite player.





Like most fans, you don't seem to understand what tanking is. Tanking is not trading players who aren't in your future to acquire draft picks. Tanking is purposely fielding a non-competitive team to get a higher draft pick. Trying to consciously lose. An example is back when Pittsburgh was in the running for Lemieux and the first overall pick. They sent a goaltender down to the minors who was playing well and called up an absolute stiff to play goal. Stating that they wanted to see what they had in him. They did that to purposely lose more games to try and get Lemeiux.
- MJL

I understand exactly what tanking is: trying not to win. It’s not some complex subject. Toronto tanked and got Marner and Matthews. They didn’t gut their team just played kids and moved out players who wouldn’t be good when the time came to compete. They haven’t won anything in the playoffs but wouldn’t you want to trade teams right now?

Actually I think he has moved to the Myers realm of Sucks with a capital 'S'!
- jd250

I think he’s been better this year then last, probably a reflection of having Risto over Myers, but his inconsistency really hurts when they are forced to roll him out there 22 + minutes a night.

The obvious miss was with Patrick but where the Flyers were drafting during the Hextall era, they got the players that you would expect to get for the most part.
- MJL

Sounds like you are advocating for tanking? And if not are content with perpetual mediocrity since the Flyers are getting the talent they should get where they draft.

i love we are talking hextall and the definition of tanking again. Maybe we can do it again in a week from today.
- bradster

Bottom line is we have opinions, Cliff has facts.

At best Sanheim is a poor man's 2nd pairing
- jd250

Ya on a team that’s had a 10 game and a 13 game losing streak….2nd pairing all day long.

I think its time for a reality check here. I like Farabee and TK, and I am on record that I hope the Flyers will keep them. However I think one of the problems we have is we overrate our own players.

Do either of these players look like top 6 players to you?

Farabee: 11g, 7A, 18 points in 33 games
TK: 7G, 17A, 24 points in 41 games

And is this the definition of a top paring defenseman?

Provorov: 5G, 11A, 16 points -8 in 40 games

Hart I give you, he has played very well but the team in front of him is awful!
- jd250

The mistake fans make is not considering the situation that they play in. If Provorov was moved to a good team, fans would be complaining why wasn't he that good here. This team is poorly coached and the organization is dysfunctional.

I understand exactly what tanking is: trying not to win. It’s not some complex subject. Toronto tanked and got Marner and Matthews. They didn’t gut their team just played kids and moved out players who wouldn’t be good when the time came to compete. They haven’t won anything in the playoffs but wouldn’t you want to trade teams right now?
- psuhockey

Add in Morgan Reilly and William Nylander….the leafs have done a very good job adding “elite” talent…I would take their core over Philly’s any day.

keep carter and Richards. Lose ex selk Jake schenn and simmonds.

Is the team any better? Your whining about trading players who win a cup elsewhere is pure entertainment.

Of the great goalie prospects which do you think will have an NHL career?
- hello it's me 2050

It is only pure entertainment if you like things that embitter fans. As for goalie prospects, time will tell. Fedotov and Ersson seem to have really high ceilings. Both have put up great numbers in the leagues where they played. Sandstrom seems more like a serviceable starter but who knows. Hart is kind of a wild card. He is a little peaks and valleys but I really like him and think the compete level is very high. With the train wreck of a team that has glaring defensive lapses on a routine basis, it can be hard to figure out what is his fault and what is not (at least sometimes). He is not someone I would bet against.

Frost was disappointing last night, but so was the rest of team to be honest. Only 17 shots on goal, over 12 minutes without a shot in the 3rd period. It should be noted the only Flyer that seemed to want to play hockey last night was Gary Mayhew, and it should be noted that Mayhew is apparently the only player on the squad currently that can take a puck, make a move, take a shot and score top shelf. Apparently, no other Flyer player can do this, so we should thank our lucky stars Mayday Mayhew is keeping this thing together! This is beyond sad and comical at the same time!
- jd250

Okay, up until this post, reading this thread has been terrible - same stuff from the same people that we read every day. That right there made me chuckle.

I understand exactly what tanking is: trying not to win. It’s not some complex subject. Toronto tanked and got Marner and Matthews. They didn’t gut their team just played kids and moved out players who wouldn’t be good when the time came to compete. They haven’t won anything in the playoffs but wouldn’t you want to trade teams right now?
- psuhockey

Explain to me specifically how Toronto tried not to win?

Ya on a team that’s had a 10 game and a 13 game losing streak….2nd pairing all day long.
- landros 2

My problem with Sanheim is what is he good at? He can't defend. He can't win puck battles. He can't outmuscle players. And for a player that can skate like he can, he generates very little offense and can't even get out there on the 2nd PP unit on a piss poor team like the Flyers. These are just the facts. I wish they were not true, but they are. Again, people tend to overrate their own players.

Sounds like you are advocating for tanking? And if not are content with perpetual mediocrity since the Flyers are getting the talent they should get where they draft.
- psuhockey

Ahh the Internet where people argue against things you didn’t say

He's lucky if he can figure out how to get to the bottom of a gallon of milk.
- MJL

\


And there's another one - lol!

The obvious miss was with Patrick but where the Flyers were drafting during the Hextall era, they got the players that you would expect to get for the most part.
- MJL

Then what was his plan, he signs a guy like JVR, that’s taking a step forward and making any further drafting worse based on position. He hadn’t drafted any impact players, where were they coming from? Was he going to wait 5 years to find out that Morgan Frost stinks. He had plenty of opportunity to draft good players, he wasn’t able to. The blunder at #2 will never be forgotten. The re-build on the fly was a horrible idea and it proved to be in reality as well.