I personally don’t care which path they take to success as long as we get there. Fletch’s moves made sense to me at the time but obviously didn’t work. I am worried that the younger core has not been able to take a step forward in order to fill the gap and that may be a bigger problem.

If they tear it down to the studs because of this and start a 5 plus year rebuild. I guess ok but say it doesn’t work and we miss on the picks? You hope for Tampa pitt scenario but it could easily be an Edmonton scenario which is an utter disaster . We talk about probabilities with lots of first overall picks and that’s nice but hockey is a late development sport so it’s a crap shoot. . Also you need to surround the stars with a proper supporting cast. Ask Edmonton if that’s easy. They’ve missed on so many other picks from 2nd round on it’s ridiculous.

Imo. The point is moot short term. I fully expect trades at the deadline to bring in some prospects and picks then we will go hard after Johnny g. They stated that they need more high end skill. There you go. Will it work? I have no idea but if the injured players we have can come back the team should be better. That’s what the plan is I’m expecting.
- Hextall271

we shoulda been in on eichel. We need elite talent, and he wouldve brought that. If his rehab doesnt work and never plays again. We wouldve been in a better position to bottom out.

I personally don’t care which path they take to success as long as we get there. Fletch’s moves made sense to me at the time but obviously didn’t work. I am worried that the younger core has not been able to take a step forward in order to fill the gap and that may be a bigger problem.

If they tear it down to the studs because of this and start a 5 plus year rebuild. I guess ok but say it doesn’t work and we miss on the picks? You hope for Tampa pitt scenario but it could easily be an Edmonton scenario which is an utter disaster . We talk about probabilities with lots of first overall picks and that’s nice but hockey is a late development sport so it’s a crap shoot. . Also you need to surround the stars with a proper supporting cast. Ask Edmonton if that’s easy. They’ve missed on so many other picks from 2nd round on it’s ridiculous.

Imo. The point is moot short term. I fully expect trades at the deadline to bring in some prospects and picks then we will go hard after Johnny g. They stated that they need more high end skill. There you go. Will it work? I have no idea but if the injured players we have can come back the team should be better. That’s what the plan is I’m expecting.
- Hextall271

I'm a little iffy about giving yet another player turning 30( I know, I know he will be 29 when the season starts, but the point still stands) a long term big money deal.

I'm a little iffy about giving yet another player turning 30( I know, I know he will be 29 when the season starts, but the point still stands) a long term big money deal.
- MBFlyerfan

You full well know they will overpay someone to take the Comcast money. Just a matter of who that player will be.

So any suggestions as to what mid level free agent the flyers will overpay for and pay like a a star?
- hello it's me 2050

I really don’t have any suggestions. I do think Johnny g will be their target but will this work? Probably not with the supporting cast. What may happen is that they look at more hockey trades such as the Atkinson for Jake but with younger players underachieving. For instance, tk has underwhelmed for two years and I cannot tell you why. Does he need a change of scenery? If so, you look at another player of his ilk and try to change up the chemistry mix as well. There’s just something terribly off with the mix here. I prefer Thai route to ufa signings which can lead to cap hell.

I'm a little iffy about giving yet another player turning 30( I know, I know he will be 29 when the season starts, but the point still stands) a long term big money deal.
- MBFlyerfan

I’m in agreement. It’s a big risk. I just feel as though that’s their plan. I wouldn’t even be shocked if they traded for him before he hits ufa so that they get a jump on negotiations. I actually expect it. I will say this. I really don’t want them throwing ANY pucks away this offseason. Compile more at the deadline.

we shoulda been in on eichel. We need elite talent, and he wouldve brought that. If his rehab doesnt work and never plays again. We wouldve been in a better position to bottom out.
- bradster

Yeah. Sometimes I look at it as well. We might as well have tanked for a rebuild this year. Wouldn’t have been worse off.

Eichel is an interesting case. I expect thy did their diligence but how would he fit cap wise?

I really don’t have any suggestions. I do think Johnny g will be their target but will this work? Probably not with the supporting cast. What may happen is that they look at more hockey trades such as the Atkinson for Jake but with younger players underachieving. For instance, tk has underwhelmed for two years and I cannot tell you why. Does he need a change of scenery? If so, you look at another player of his ilk and try to change up the chemistry mix as well. There’s just something terribly off with the mix here. I prefer Thai route to ufa signings which can lead to cap hell.
- Hextall271

The JG stuff is funny to me. There has never been any credible rumor of him wanting to come here or the flyers interest in him. At least that I recall. He will have many options. Do not see him picking the flyers as his option. Which will be good if the flyers go after him.

I can get behind a hockey trade as you suggest. The thing is will the GM trade a TK for someone similar or will he acquire someone older?

They cant bring back CC as they really need to turn the page. It is long overdue.

I really don’t have any suggestions. I do think Johnny g will be their target but will this work? Probably not with the supporting cast. What may happen is that they look at more hockey trades such as the Atkinson for Jake but with younger players underachieving. For instance, tk has underwhelmed for two years and I cannot tell you why. Does he need a change of scenery? If so, you look at another player of his ilk and try to change up the chemistry mix as well. There’s just something terribly off with the mix here. I prefer Thai route to ufa signings which can lead to cap hell.
- Hextall271

In my opinion, hockey trades, youth for youth, UFA's and trying to move up in the draft is all going to be on the table. In other words, other than just making moves, they have no real plan. No long term vision. We'll just wing it year after year.

Yeah. Sometimes I look at it as well. We might as well have tanked for a rebuild this year. Wouldn’t have been worse off.

Eichel is an interesting case. I expect thy did their diligence but how would he fit cap wise?
- Hextall271

Just htink if they traded ex selke last deadline for a very nice package. Then acquire Eichel. All hypothetical of course....

Would they have be better off going forward?

In my opinion, hockey trades, youth for youth, UFA's and trying to move up in the draft is all going to be on the table. In other words, other than just making moves, they have no real plan. No long term vision. We'll just wing it year after year.
- MJL

Cliff you need to accept the fact they will not be rebuilding or tearing it down (yes they will still draft and develop like they always have). So that being said what would be your plan going forward for next year/next couple years?

1. What free agents would you pursue?
2. Who would you look to trade and what would you expect back as the return?
3. Who would you look to hire as a coach?
4. If Chuck steps down who would you like as the next GM.

Let’s hear your actual solutions. Thanks and have a blessed day.

Cliff you need to accept the fact they will not be rebuilding or tearing it down (yes they will still draft and develop like they always have). So that being said what would be your plan going forward for next year/next couple years?

1. What free agents would you pursue?
2. Who would you look to trade and what would you expect back as the return?
3. Who would you look to hire as a coach?
4. If Chuck steps down who would you like as the next GM.

Let’s hear your actual solutions. Thanks and have a blessed day.
- hello it's me 2050

I would also like to hear your answers to these questions.

I personally don’t care which path they take to success as long as we get there. Fletch’s moves made sense to me at the time but obviously didn’t work. I am worried that the younger core has not been able to take a step forward in order to fill the gap and that may be a bigger problem.

If they tear it down to the studs because of this and start a 5 plus year rebuild. I guess ok but say it doesn’t work and we miss on the picks? You hope for Tampa pitt scenario but it could easily be an Edmonton scenario which is an utter disaster . We talk about probabilities with lots of first overall picks and that’s nice but hockey is a late development sport so it’s a crap shoot. . Also you need to surround the stars with a proper supporting cast. Ask Edmonton if that’s easy. They’ve missed on so many other picks from 2nd round on it’s ridiculous.

Imo. The point is moot short term. I fully expect trades at the deadline to bring in some prospects and picks then we will go hard after Johnny g. They stated that they need more high end skill. There you go. Will it work? I have no idea but if the injured players we have can come back the team should be better. That’s what the plan is I’m expecting.
- Hextall271

I agree that there are multiple paths to building a contending team, but over the years we have data and examples that should indicate to us which path is the best option. Of course it depends on the starting state of the team you are working with. I also applauded the moves Fletcher made in the off season mainly because they were an attempt to fill obvious holes this team had coming out of the 2020 season, i.e. top paring defenseman, need for more shoot first forwards, become tougher to play against with more physical players, better depth and a much improved penalty kill. As you stated it didn't work out, and part of the reason was the head coach lost the team, Covid and injuries. The other part of the equation is our younger players have been slow to develop and some of the veteran pieces brought in for depth have not worked out. The one glaring hole I still thought was left unaddressed was the need for top end talent, but I hoped that the sum of the parts might overcome this deficiency. But as you can see, it really can't. You need players on the team that can make an individual play that propels your team to a victory on a night where maybe the team overall is flat. Yes you can count of your goalies, but if you can't score, the best goalie in the world is not going to get you the win.

Thus I was encouraged that Fletcher has now twice acknowledged that he does not have elite talent on this team, and in his latest presser acknowledged that the best path forward is to draft and develop such talent. Now is he going to actually do this? If so the best way is to lose a lot of games and draft in the top 5. Thus going after a player like Johnny G would be the exact wrong thing to do! Johnny G is small, has not performed well in the playoffs, and has had only two seasons where he has scored more than 1 point/gm. Is this the best use of the Flyers available cap space? Is Johnny G truly an elite talent? Is he on par with Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Nathan McKinnon or Steven Stamkos? Sure right now Johnny G is scoring at a good pace, and it just so happens to be a contract year. But is he going to push this team over the top? I think not. I therefore hope Fletcher is smart, gathers as many assets as he can at the deadline, the team tanks and Fletcher builds through the draft primarily. If there is a hockey trade to be made or a solid FA that can fill a need I definitely want Fletcher to go for it, but to gain elite talent we must draft and develop much better than we have so far. York is a nice piece, and we surely hope Foerster and Tuomaala can play at some point, but we need more.

we shoulda been in on eichel. We need elite talent, and he wouldve brought that. If his rehab doesnt work and never plays again. We wouldve been in a better position to bottom out.
- bradster

When guys like him and Laine become available a team that lacks that elite talent should move heaven and earth to acquire them. I laugh when I hear, oh I don’t want that guy because he has this issue or that issue. Then in the next breath they talk about drafting high up in the draft to take a guy just like them. Yes they should have been in on Eichel for sure.

In my opinion, hockey trades, youth for youth, UFA's and trying to move up in the draft is all going to be on the table. In other words, other than just making moves, they have no real plan. No long term vision. We'll just wing it year after year.
- MJL

This is a completely unfair assessment of Fletcher and his staff.

When guys like him and Laine become available a team that lacks that elite talent should move heaven and earth to acquire them. I laugh when I hear, oh I don’t want that guy because he has this issue or that issue. Then in the next breath they talk about drafting high up in the draft to take a guy just like them. Yes they should have been in on Eichel for sure.
- landros 2

Is Eichel going to be the same player he was in Buffalo? Are you willing to trade heaven and earth to find out? And about Laine, he is currently 6th on his team in scoring, behind a defenseman and someone called Boone Jenner. Is he the type of player that I move heaven and earth for? I am all for getting elite talent, but I am not putting all my chips in the middle unless I am fairly sure I am going to win the pot.

I would also like to hear your answers to these questions.
- MBFlyerfan

Let Cliff answer. Then we can circle back.

Is Eichel going to be the same player he was in Buffalo? Are you willing to trade heaven and earth to find out? And about Laine, he is currently 6th on his team in scoring, behind a defenseman and someone called Boone Jenner. Is he the type of player that I move heaven and earth for? I am all for getting elite talent, but I am not putting all my chips in the middle unless I am fairly sure I am going to win the pot.
- jd250

Granted Laine has only played 24 games whereas the players above him have all played 41-43 games.

Granted Laine has only played 24 games whereas the players above him have all played 41-43 games.
- MBFlyerfan

So Laine is an elite talent that can't stay on the ice ... hmmm .. come to think of it, he is a perfect Flyer :-)

I agree that there are multiple paths to building a contending team, but over the years we have data and examples that should indicate to us which path is the best option. Of course it depends on the starting state of the team you are working with. I also applauded the moves Fletcher made in the off season mainly because they were an attempt to fill obvious holes this team had coming out of the 2020 season, i.e. top paring defenseman, need for more shoot first forwards, become tougher to play against with more physical players, better depth and a much improved penalty kill. As you stated it didn't work out, and part of the reason was the head coach lost the team, Covid and injuries. The other part of the equation is our younger players have been slow to develop and some of the veteran pieces brought in for depth have not worked out. The one glaring hole I still thought was left unaddressed was the need for top end talent, but I hoped that the sum of the parts might overcome this deficiency. But as you can see, it really can't. You need players on the team that can make an individual play that propels your team to a victory on a night where maybe the team overall is flat. Yes you can count of your goalies, but if you can't score, the best goalie in the world is not going to get you the win.

Thus I was encouraged that Fletcher has now twice acknowledged that he does not have elite talent on this team, and in his latest presser acknowledged that the best path forward is to draft and develop such talent. Now is he going to actually do this? If so the best way is to lose a lot of games and draft in the top 5. Thus going after a player like Johnny G would be the exact wrong thing to do! Johnny G is small, has not performed well in the playoffs, and has had only two seasons where he has scored more than 1 point/gm. Is this the best use of the Flyers available cap space? Is Johnny G truly an elite talent? Is he on par with Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Nathan McKinnon or Steven Stamkos? Sure right now Johnny G is scoring at a good pace, and it just so happens to be a contract year. But is he going to push this team over the top? I think not. I therefore hope Fletcher is smart, gathers as many assets as he can at the deadline, the team tanks and Fletcher builds through the draft primarily. If there is a hockey trade to be made or a solid FA that can fill a need I definitely want Fletcher to go for it, but to gain elite talent we must draft and develop much better than we have so far. York is a nice piece, and we surely hope Foerster and Tuomaala can play at some point, but we need more.
- jd250

What do you believe that Fletcher is actually going to do next off season? Is he going to sit back and rely on drafting or is he going to be aggressive and try for a quck fix? If it's the latter than how can you be encouraged by Fletcher saying they need more elite players? If you don't believe Gaudreau fits that bill. How about Kadri? Just like all of us, you heard Scott, a few moves and we're right back in it. There was really nothing in my view to be encouraged about from that press conference.

This is a completely unfair assessment of Fletcher and his staff.
- jd250

In what manner?

I agree that there are multiple paths to building a contending team, but over the years we have data and examples that should indicate to us which path is the best option. Of course it depends on the starting state of the team you are working with. I also applauded the moves Fletcher made in the off season mainly because they were an attempt to fill obvious holes this team had coming out of the 2020 season, i.e. top paring defenseman, need for more shoot first forwards, become tougher to play against with more physical players, better depth and a much improved penalty kill. As you stated it didn't work out, and part of the reason was the head coach lost the team, Covid and injuries. The other part of the equation is our younger players have been slow to develop and some of the veteran pieces brought in for depth have not worked out. The one glaring hole I still thought was left unaddressed was the need for top end talent, but I hoped that the sum of the parts might overcome this deficiency. But as you can see, it really can't. You need players on the team that can make an individual play that propels your team to a victory on a night where maybe the team overall is flat. Yes you can count of your goalies, but if you can't score, the best goalie in the world is not going to get you the win.

Thus I was encouraged that Fletcher has now twice acknowledged that he does not have elite talent on this team, and in his latest presser acknowledged that the best path forward is to draft and develop such talent. Now is he going to actually do this? If so the best way is to lose a lot of games and draft in the top 5. Thus going after a player like Johnny G would be the exact wrong thing to do! Johnny G is small, has not performed well in the playoffs, and has had only two seasons where he has scored more than 1 point/gm. Is this the best use of the Flyers available cap space? Is Johnny G truly an elite talent? Is he on par with Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Nathan McKinnon or Steven Stamkos? Sure right now Johnny G is scoring at a good pace, and it just so happens to be a contract year. But is he going to push this team over the top? I think not. I therefore hope Fletcher is smart, gathers as many assets as he can at the deadline, the team tanks and Fletcher builds through the draft primarily. If there is a hockey trade to be made or a solid FA that can fill a need I definitely want Fletcher to go for it, but to gain elite talent we must draft and develop much better than we have so far. York is a nice piece, and we surely hope Foerster and Tuomaala can play at some point, but we need more.
- jd250

Man the GM failed big time. As for the coach part he lost the team last season. How the fn GM didn't see this is mind boggling.

Wow he acknowledged something, big deal. He has done jack schitt to address it though is all that matters.

The GM isn't here to build through the draft per say. He does not have a long shelf life if they struggle next season. He will double down and go the same route he went last summer. Will those moves be better than last summer? Better hope so.

Tumo has had what appears ot be well a not so good season so far.

So Laine is an elite talent that can't stay on the ice ... hmmm .. come to think of it, he is a perfect Flyer :-)
- jd250

I don't want the Flyers to pursue Laine but he is scoring at about a 35 goal 70 point pace.

I agree that there are multiple paths to building a contending team, but over the years we have data and examples that should indicate to us which path is the best option. Of course it depends on the starting state of the team you are working with. I also applauded the moves Fletcher made in the off season mainly because they were an attempt to fill obvious holes this team had coming out of the 2020 season, i.e. top paring defenseman, need for more shoot first forwards, become tougher to play against with more physical players, better depth and a much improved penalty kill. As you stated it didn't work out, and part of the reason was the head coach lost the team, Covid and injuries. The other part of the equation is our younger players have been slow to develop and some of the veteran pieces brought in for depth have not worked out. The one glaring hole I still thought was left unaddressed was the need for top end talent, but I hoped that the sum of the parts might overcome this deficiency. But as you can see, it really can't. You need players on the team that can make an individual play that propels your team to a victory on a night where maybe the team overall is flat. Yes you can count of your goalies, but if you can't score, the best goalie in the world is not going to get you the win.

Thus I was encouraged that Fletcher has now twice acknowledged that he does not have elite talent on this team, and in his latest presser acknowledged that the best path forward is to draft and develop such talent. Now is he going to actually do this? If so the best way is to lose a lot of games and draft in the top 5. Thus going after a player like Johnny G would be the exact wrong thing to do! Johnny G is small, has not performed well in the playoffs, and has had only two seasons where he has scored more than 1 point/gm. Is this the best use of the Flyers available cap space? Is Johnny G truly an elite talent? Is he on par with Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Nathan McKinnon or Steven Stamkos? Sure right now Johnny G is scoring at a good pace, and it just so happens to be a contract year. But is he going to push this team over the top? I think not. I therefore hope Fletcher is smart, gathers as many assets as he can at the deadline, the team tanks and Fletcher builds through the draft primarily. If there is a hockey trade to be made or a solid FA that can fill a need I definitely want Fletcher to go for it, but to gain elite talent we must draft and develop much better than we have so far. York is a nice piece, and we surely hope Foerster and Tuomaala can play at some point, but we need more.
- jd250

Johnny G is not on par with those guys….but there aren’t any that you could trade for. Tuomalla was a second round pick that had some flashes in training camp….the guy didn’t even make Finnish world junior team, because he hasn’t had a good year. One thing they both have though is speed. They do need to add guys that can skate…do they over pay a guy like Kadri if he hits FA this year? Do they move on from a guys like Risto and Sanheim?
One thing most can agree on is we need to figure out who is part of the solution and who is not. That goes for players and management. Young guys need to get an opportunity to play when healthy.

So Laine is an elite talent that can't stay on the ice ... hmmm .. come to think of it, he is a perfect Flyer :-)
- jd250

Just simply pointing out that your point of him being "only" 6th on his team in scoring "behind a defenseman(who happens to be Zach Werenski) and someone called Boone Jenner" had some context that cut in to your point.

As for Laine, I wasn't too enamored in him as a player. He hasn't had a history of injury since lately. And also has a rep as a selfish player. But his talent and ability IS elite no matter how you slice it.

Is Eichel going to be the same player he was in Buffalo? Are you willing to trade heaven and earth to find out? And about Laine, he is currently 6th on his team in scoring, behind a defenseman and someone called Boone Jenner. Is he the type of player that I move heaven and earth for? I am all for getting elite talent, but I am not putting all my chips in the middle unless I am fairly sure I am going to win the pot.
- jd250

I let my doctors tell me that….as a GM I didn’t go to med school. When Laine was happy and healthy he’s scoring at a 35-40 goal pace. He’s a stud. If rather they take swings at difference makers instead of guys like Hayes….JVR….although both good players, not guys that are all star caliber although both are paid that way. I just pointed out a couple examples. Fair or unfair the Flyers are going to take some chances, because it’s rare elite talent is actually traded unless there are circumstances that give teams reasons for pause.