I wouldn’t worry about this years pick. I would worry about Fletcher traded the 2023 first to try and save his job this offseason.
- psuhockey

If his job was truly in jeopardy and he made those off-season moves to keep it then wouldn’t he have been fired by now.

My personal opinion is he should been clipped w AV, but if there is one thing we know now is his job status did not motivate the moves. He thought those moves could get them over the top. That’s his job.

Obviously, that has not worked and he deserves to be accountable for that along with his predecessor, but it appears to me his leash is or was far longer than we thought.

The 2017 draft which you mentioned had no projected generational players. Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson were taken in the top 5. The 5-10 picks after were Glass, Andersson, Mittelstadt, Rasmussen and Tippett. Is there a difference between the first 3 players I mentioned and the last 5?

You are correct there are zero guarantees. There is an element of chance much like gambling. But like gambling it’s about playing the percentages. Single numbers do come up on the Roulette wheel but there are bets with better odds on the table. The odds are undeniably better of picking an elite player at the top of the draft than it is lower in the round. You can list all the Giroux’s, Bergerons and Ahos you like but those players a very rare where they were picked. The odds are also undeniably better that a player picked at the top of the draft will be NHL ready faster than lower in the draft. Again you can make a list for everyone who made it quick that was picked later but the probability favors the top. So you can say win and take a chance since there are no guarantee just acknowledge you are making a bad bet in the process.
- psuhockey

This is the same old tired dead beat reply. I'm not sure why yourself and a few others can't grasp that any serious hockey fan is aware of all of that. Yet you keep posting it. With no understanding that fans are being fans. Being hopeful of getting a high level player where the Flyers are likely going to pick. Is there an issue with that? Anyone saying that you can get a high quality later in the draft, is absolutely correct. You can't seem to acknowledge that.

The only thing different about this year is the 8 spots in the East are wrapped up so no team will be adding players in East for a playoff run. Teams will only be adding in East if they need and can solidify their playoff team.
- hfc355

I would say common sense would dictate some earlier moves out west and east teams sitting right till before the deadline.

Hart is having a strong season, while not having any help around him. That is the positive from this year.

That’s bs. Teams have made big moves at this point in the season before. Outside of salary cap implications there is no reason to wait. As far as returns, it’s complete bunk that they get better near the deadline. It’s like the myth of AHL seasoning. Sounds great in theory but in reality it’s garbage. Giroux’s return now or later will be an “A” asset (1st rd pick or good prospect) a “B” asset (2nd rd picks or 2nd level prospect), and something else. If the Flyers take a cap dump, the B asset can be upgraded to an “A”. That’s pretty much the return on any decent player available whether at the deadline or in the offseason. It’s not going to magically become more. The Flyers can should just take a cap dump and make it happen now but they won’t. Fletcher wants as much cap space to blow this summer as possible but it won’t be helping the team any and realistically will just be hurting it down the line.
- psuhockey

This cracks me up. When someone talks about getting a high level player in the draft you talk about odds and state that you can come up with all the examples you want. Doesn't change the odds. So yea, players have been traded before at this point in the season. But what are the probabilities? LOL

I think you fail to realize that there's a good chance that there are going to be a fair number of very good players available. Teams are going to be limited due to cap implications. There has to be a fit possibly with a player coming back to make it work. If a team meets the asking price now, sure you make the move but the odds of that happening now aren't great. Do you actually dispute that the overall majority of the moves that are going to be made by contending teams is going to happen closer to the deadline? Is there anything that I said that is not accurate.
What's BS is you replying that what I said is BS.

If his job was truly in jeopardy and he made those off-season moves to keep it then wouldn’t he have been fired by now.

My personal opinion is he should been clipped w AV, but if there is one thing we know now is his job status did not motivate the moves. He thought those moves could get them over the top. That’s his job.

Obviously, that has not worked and he deserves to be accountable for that along with his predecessor, but it appears to me his leash is or was far longer than we thought.
- Joe Nardone

I agree with you.
However, if Chuck gets to navigate the team into next year and come Thanksgiving this team is once again playing below expectations, does he get canned then? If the answer is yes, then I think they should go in a new direction now.

You do realize that very few teams have the ability to play a perfect game? Hockey/sports are about mistakes and everyone makes them. I thought last night's game actually had entertainment value and that's all I'm looking for at this point cause they ain't getting back in the playoff hunt. I hate the tanking idea in professional sports in general. That's why I hope the Sixers NEVER win jack squat! What they did was an embarrassment to pro sports!! Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Any objective assessment of the game last night would look at all factors. I'm looking for growth for the future. If you're just looking for entertainment and a win, more power to you. I'm looking at the big picture. I agree with you completely on tanking.

This is the same old tired dead beat reply. I'm not sure why yourself and a few others can't grasp that any serious hockey fan is aware of all of that. Yet you keep posting it. With no understanding that fans are being fans. Being hopeful of getting a high level player where the Flyers are likely going to pick. Is there an issue with that? Anyone saying that you can get a high quality later in the draft, is absolutely correct. You can't seem to acknowledge that.
- MJL

We got JVR and Patrick w 2 number 2 picks in the draft…. Those are can’t miss picks and we missed. Can you fault folks for not being all that excited about the prospect of a high pick? Don’t care who the GM is.

I can’t root for my team to lose. Now if they sell off for good assets and thus they lose so be it, but I can’t see a fire sale for a while here.

Thinking - I wish they lost after winning an exciting game is not in my dna and not gonna change the overall direction of the team anyway.

That is all I ask for - is to be entertained. Which is why I prefer players with a little skill and lots of wheels. Laughton s a classic example. He has trouble finishing but has th skills and wheels to at least get to those points....
- mr4tno

Laughton is going to wind up again with around 15 goals and 30 or so points, all at ES. He is a solid player.

I agree with you.
However, if Chuck gets to navigate the team into next year and come Thanksgiving this team is once again playing below expectations, does he get canned then? If the answer is yes, then I think they should go in a new direction now.
- rayc16

100%.

Great examples. I got one that proves my point in Thomas Vanek. He was traded in October for a 1st and 2nd round pick only to get a 2nd rd pick at the deadline that year. Waiting until the deadline isn’t some gospel because that’s what GM’s tell you.
- psuhockey

Probabilities! Odds!

This is the same old tired dead beat reply. I'm not sure why yourself and a few others can't grasp that any serious hockey fan is aware of all of that. Yet you keep posting it. With no understanding that fans are being fans. Being hopeful of getting a high level player where the Flyers are likely going to pick. Is there an issue with that? Anyone saying that you can get a high quality later in the draft, is absolutely correct. You can't seem to acknowledge that.
- MJL

I acknowledged it. The Flyers could absolutely luck out like they did in 2006, almost two decades ago and draft an elite player who outperformed his draft position. Can you acknowledge the rarity of that event and the likelihood of the Flyers maintaining their state of mediocrity for the foreseeable future by doubling down on the same failed strategy of the last two decades?

How is it a known fact? Maybe it was back in the day before the salary cap but not anymore. The league has changed since then. GMs are reticent to trade earlier because it announces to their fans the season is over. The only other reason to wait is maybe maybe more teams will get in on the player but for Giroux that isn’t an option because Giroux can pick where he goes. The Flyers can get a list of teams this week and trade him next week and get the exact same return they would get at the deadline. Write this in stone: the return will be an “A” asset, a “B” asset and something else. I doubt Fletcher will get more because he won’t be taking a cap dump.
- psuhockey

How is it a known fact? Seriously? It happens every year. Giroux can pick where he wants to go. What does that tell you? Dive deeper.

I acknowledged it. The Flyers could absolutely luck out like they did in 2006, almost two decades ago and draft an elite player who outperformed his draft position. Can you acknowledge the rarity of that event and the likelihood of the Flyers maintaining their state of mediocrity for the foreseeable future by doubling down on the same failed strategy of the last two decades?
- psuhockey

Have you paid attention to what I've been posting since the Flyers canned Hextall? Obviously not.

Laughton is going to wind up again with around 15 goals and 30 or so points, all at ES. He is a solid player.
- MJL

They will be the most shallow points one can have. Solid core player right. Does nothing when it is needed. Where was he when they were playing horrible? Another guy the GM missed out on selling high on.

Lets see now they are out of the payoff picture who puts up points.

It will just ruin their draft position. These two wins have moved the Flyers to 7th overall out of the top 5. Don’t know how much it matters this draft but stupid all the same.
- psuhockey

They can always leap.

It IS a lottery.

This cracks me up. When someone talks about getting a high level player in the draft you talk about odds and state that you can come up with all the examples you want. Doesn't change the odds. So yea, players have been traded before at this point in the season. But what are the probabilities? LOL

I think you fail to realize that there's a good chance that there are going to be a fair number of very good players available. Teams are going to be limited due to cap implications. There has to be a fit possibly with a player coming back to make it work. If a team meets the asking price now, sure you make the move but the odds of that happening now aren't great. Do you actually dispute that the overall majority of the moves that are going to be made by contending teams is going to happen closer to the deadline? Is there anything that I said that is not accurate.
What's BS is you replying that what I said is BS.
- MJL

Trading isn’t a matter of probability and odds. I am not sure the connection whatsoever.

If there are going to be a fair amount of good players available shouldn’t the Flyers sell first before the teams sell off their best assets. Wouldn’t it better to set the market then be stuck with the left overs? If you look a players strictly as assets, explain the scenarios in which Giroux’s value goes up closer to the deadline. Injuries and cap space is all you got but the flip side is Giroux himself could get injured and more teams could enter the trade market adding other players that delude his value. In the end it doesn’t matter because as I stated before, his value is already established. Go find examples of trades that exceed that value in recent years if you think he could get more.

You are right that most teams wait until the deadline but that doesn’t make it the correct strategy. The NHL is full of dinosaur GMs who don’t think outside the box. They are still lagging behind their NFL counterparts in how to handle the hard salary cap. Just look at the Couturier extension. Half the teams in the league, maybe more give out that extension. In a few years half or more won’t trade for it. I want a GM to be different the rest of the Idiots out there.

They can always leap.

It IS a lottery.
- DrMidnite

But what are the odds? The same source then names one trade example that happened as a reason why the Flyers can make a trade now rather than having to wait until closer to the deadline. Yet if you name one example of a player drafted later that turned out to be a stud. Odds! Probabilities!

Great examples. I got one that proves my point in Thomas Vanek. He was traded in October for a 1st and 2nd round pick only to get a 2nd rd pick at the deadline that year. Waiting until the deadline isn’t some gospel because that’s what GM’s tell you.
- psuhockey

True. Some GM’s want to get a jump. The TDL is really just the pressure that it’s your last chance to improve your team, while others around you might be doing it. That has and can lead to higher returns. But if Fletch got a player or a package he likes and can make the cap work on March 1rst, then he obviously would pull the trigger.

Have you paid attention to what I've been posting since the Flyers canned Hextall? Obviously not.

- MJL

So you acknowledge the low probability of success but want it anyway? Are you a masochist?

Trading isn’t a matter of probability and odds. I am not sure the connection whatsoever.


- psuhockey

There are odds and probabilities in everything. I'm not surprised that you're not sure. Doesn't fit your narrative.

If there are going to be a fair amount of good players available shouldn’t the Flyers sell first before the teams sell off their best assets. Wouldn’t it better to set the market then be stuck with the left overs? If you look a players strictly as assets, explain the scenarios in which Giroux’s value goes up closer to the deadline. Injuries and cap space is all you got but the flip side is Giroux himself could get injured and more teams could enter the trade market adding other players that delude his value. In the end it doesn’t matter because as I stated before, his value is already established. Go find examples of trades that exceed that value in recent years if you think he could get more.


- psuhockey

Sure, but there are at least two teams involved in a trade. If they're not ready because their cap situation is not clear. They could sustain a serious injury between now and the deadline that could change their need and the assets they have available. You are incorrect that his value is already established. A team will be looking for a return. That return could increase or diminish depending on how the market develops. Where have I stated that he will get more?

You are right that most teams wait until the deadline but that doesn’t make it the correct strategy. The NHL is full of dinosaur GMs who don’t think outside the box. They are still lagging behind their NFL counterparts in how to handle the hard salary cap. Just look at the Couturier extension. Half the teams in the league, maybe more give out that extension. In a few years half or more won’t trade for it. I want a GM to be different the rest of the Idiots out there.
- psuhockey

You're pulling a PT21 and changing the scope. I know I'm right. Yet you called it BS.

Trading isn’t a matter of probability and odds. I am not sure the connection whatsoever.

If there are going to be a fair amount of good players available shouldn’t the Flyers sell first before the teams sell off their best assets. Wouldn’t it better to set the market then be stuck with the left overs? If you look a players strictly as assets, explain the scenarios in which Giroux’s value goes up closer to the deadline. Injuries and cap space is all you got but the flip side is Giroux himself could get injured and more teams could enter the trade market adding other players that delude his value. In the end it doesn’t matter because as I stated before, his value is already established. Go find examples of trades that exceed that value in recent years if you think he could get more.

You are right that most teams wait until the deadline but that doesn’t make it the correct strategy. The NHL is full of dinosaur GMs who don’t think outside the box. They are still lagging behind their NFL counterparts in how to handle the hard salary cap. Just look at the Couturier extension. Half the teams in the league, maybe more give out that extension. In a few years half or more won’t trade for it. I want a GM to be different the rest of the Idiots out there.
- psuhockey

Got to have another willing participant in a trade. Some teams like the AVS cannot afford to make a deal until the deadline. The cap is a huge obstacle. That is realistic. I am confident that if a deal can be done right now that benefits the Flyers Fletcher would make it. Settling for pennies on the dollar does not benefit the Flyers.

As for Giroux, I will be absolutely stunned if he is traded ahead of deadline day.

The only thing different about this year is the 8 spots in the East are wrapped up so no team will be adding players in East for a playoff run. Teams will only be adding in East if they need and can solidify their playoff team.
- hfc355

Not the playoff run, but teams due to injuries, or just wanting to get better ‘THE we might be one guy away syndrome’ still might make it a busy deadline. As well some teams have been hemorrhaging cash for two years….having that playoff cash with a deep run might entice some GM’s to push some chips in.

So you acknowledge the low probability of success but want it anyway? Are you a masochist?
- psuhockey

You have no clue obviously what you are talking about.

Got to have another willing participant in a trade. Some teams like the AVS cannot afford to make a deal until the deadline. The cap is a huge obstacle. That is realistic. I am confident that if a deal can be done right now that benefits the Flyers Fletcher would make it. Settling for pennies on the dollar does not benefit the Flyers.

As for Giroux, I will be absolutely stunned if he is traded ahead of deadline day.
- mickel25

god bless you.