There are a few other positives:

Lindblom is healthy and starting to look more and more like his old self

Farabee looks to be a legit top 6 wing

Albeit a small sample size, York looks like he’s going to be a good top 4 Dman

Frost is starting to show flashes of the player he can be, hopefully they will move him onto a line with actual NHL players asap.
- BiggE

kind of the Flyers in a nut shell. Frost is coming along, he is playing with Willman. I actually like Willman, good speed but you can tell he can't make plays at pace, his speed gets him to good spots but he cant lift his head to complete the play. He could be a good 4th line player but we have him with Frost, who has a high skill set. It just highlights all the holes on the team

favorite play of the year...


Hart keeps the puck in play and doesn't want a faceoff in his zone, ref gives him time to play it, Hart gives it to Yandle. Yandle keeps his head down and just ices the puck. I have never seen a player make every wrong play.

The problem with that is that is that there's zero guarantee unless it's a bedard type clear cut generational talent. We had the second pick recently and it didn't work out at all. They'll be in the lottery, and I expect that they'll pick top 10. That SHOULD bring you a player with a good shot at making the NHL.
- Hextall271

For me, you could have stopped at 'player with a good shot' (sigh)

I wish the organization would realize this. Step one would be to sit Yandle and get Zamula into the lineup. Followed by:
Shop and trade Jones and see what Sandstrom can do
Put Frost on a line with legit NHL players
and
Move Ratcliffe to L3 and see what the kid has
- BiggE

This is not a forward thinking organization. Mind boggling that these 2 easy moves just will not happen.

Frost Sanheim I believe will be traded in the summer at the latest.

I think we can all agree that if nothing else Hart is playing up to his billing. I am mildly optimistic about Frost, but way too early to get excited with Ratcliffe but at least there's some hope. A win against the Jets is nice, but hard to be thinking that we've resurrected the season or anything. Breakout schemes, O zone entries, and all of the Xs and Os are made better or worse based on the quality of the players. The McEwans, Willmans, and Bunnamans are all willing participants but will probably be AHL players or at best fourth line role players at best. Yes, better coaching is imperative, but without the talent we continue to go from bad to mediocre and back to bad

Unless they bottom out and win the lottery next year, I don't think there's a generational talent coming their way.

So you might as well play to win and see where the chips fall. Draft the best player avail and hope it works out as there are zero guarantees.
- Hextall271

Oh no doubt, but it’s still pointless.
- BiggE

To be fair, a good 90% of what gets posted here is pointless lol

I think we can all agree that if nothing else Hart is playing up to his billing. I am mildly optimistic about Frost, but way too early to get excited with Ratcliffe but at least there's some hope. A win against the Jets is nice, but hard to be thinking that we've resurrected the season or anything. Breakout schemes, O zone entries, and all of the Xs and Os are made better or worse based on the quality of the players. The McEwans, Willmans, and Bunnamans are all willing participants but will probably be AHL players or at best fourth line role players at best. Yes, better coaching is imperative, but without the talent we continue to go from bad to mediocre and back to bad
- DANCER

I agree but I will say Bunnaman and the 4th line play has been one of the reasons the Flyers are playing better right now. I was never a huge fan of Bunnaman but if he can play a heavy game, he could carve out a 4th line role.

I would love to see some of the players progress. Hart, Bunnaman, Willman, Frost, York, Lindblom and TK. Maybe get Zamula in, Allison back and see if we can actually develop our young players

Back in the playoff race. Maybe buyers at the deadline.....
- hello it's me 2050

Need to be all in NOW for Johnny Hockey!!

This is true but that’s why management should step in and start moving out players immediately. Players and coaches play to win but the GM needs to plan for the future and a higher draft pick potentially helps the future more than winning meaningless games at this point.
- psuhockey

They missed the boat earlier imo. For a big market team with the sort of financial pressures and impatient fanbase, tanking/rebuilding is as much a public policy art as it is a policy.

This year, they had the perfect excuse: Covid gave them an excuse for low attendance. Injuries gave them an excuse for poor performance. The 2 key mistakes they made are:
1. Firing AV. They should have taken a leaf out of the Habs playbook, who immediately announced Ducharme stays.
2. Not saying Couts to IR earlier. Whatever the damn injury is, there is no reason whatsoever to keep the guy around.

You do realize that very few teams have the ability to play a perfect game? Hockey/sports are about mistakes and everyone makes them. I thought last night's game actually had entertainment value and that's all I'm looking for at this point cause they ain't getting back in the playoff hunt. I hate the tanking idea in professional sports in general. That's why I hope the Sixers NEVER win jack squat! What they did was an embarrassment to pro sports!! Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Do you also feel the same way about the Eagles? Last year, in a division game against their most hated rival, they pulled their qb who was threatening to make a game out of it. Instead they played their backup qb, who had not played in the entire season before, to give him experience. Once they gave him that 30 mins of experience, they promptly cut him.

Result: Devonta Smith and a 1st.

I agree but I will say Bunnaman and the 4th line play has been one of the reasons the Flyers are playing better right now. I was never a huge fan of Bunnaman but if he can play a heavy game, he could carve out a 4th line role.

I would love to see some of the players progress. Hart, Bunnaman, Willman, Frost, York, Lindblom and TK. Maybe get Zamula in, Allison back and see if we can actually develop our young players
- wcorvette

You need to offer more than that imo. He offers next to nothing. Seems to be just a body.

Need to be all in NOW for Johnny Hockey!!
- hockeylover

I am with you holmes

There are not odds and probability in a sale. There’s the market and nothing else. Giroux’s price is baked in and he gets to pick where he goes. Waiting does not open up more teams. Waiting does open up more capspace but the Flyers can just take a cap dump to expedite the process. Fletcher won’t but he can.


- psuhockey

There are certainly odds and probabilities of a trade happening now or in the near future. Giroux's price is not baked in. What the team is asking for might be baked in but trades are a negotiation and the price often changes in that negotiation. Waiting could absolutely add more teams. A team that may not see a need for Giroux now, could have a major injury to a top 6 center and now have interest in the player. A team may lose out on a player that they wanted more and then turn their eye to Giroux. Many possibilities. The very fact that more cap space will be opened up expands the market.

I am not changing the subject just rejecting the myths surrounding hockey that GMs put forth such as the price goes up around the deadline. More than likely the price goes down at the deadline. Countless writers have stated as such. Teams ask for the moon to see if anyone is desperate enough to make a deal earlier. My contention is why play these games? Giroux with return an “A” asset, a “B” asset and something else because that’s been the standard deal for any high profile player at the deadline or in the offseason. Fletcher should upgrade the deal by taking a cap dump now which would wipe out any reason to wait. The cap is the only legitimate reason to wait in the case of Giroux.
- psuhockey

Yes, you did change the parameters. The price can go either way. More teams bidding can drive up the price. Less can lower it. Way to be specific on an "A" and a "B" asset. It's the equivalent of predicting the sun will come up. The cap is a legitimate reason why the trade market won't develop until closer to the deadline. You called that BS earlier. You refuted your own post. Well done.

They missed the boat earlier imo. For a big market team with the sort of financial pressures and impatient fanbase, tanking/rebuilding is as much a public policy art as it is a policy.
- PT21

I think modern fans are smart enough to get behind a tank especially after the last 10 years. I also believe the fans will eventually demand one from this franchise if the next reload fails.

Trading isn’t a matter of probability and odds. I am not sure the connection whatsoever.

If there are going to be a fair amount of good players available shouldn’t the Flyers sell first before the teams sell off their best assets. Wouldn’t it better to set the market then be stuck with the left overs? If you look a players strictly as assets, explain the scenarios in which Giroux’s value goes up closer to the deadline. Injuries and cap space is all you got but the flip side is Giroux himself could get injured and more teams could enter the trade market adding other players that delude his value. In the end it doesn’t matter because as I stated before, his value is already established. Go find examples of trades that exceed that value in recent years if you think he could get more.

You are right that most teams wait until the deadline but that doesn’t make it the correct strategy. The NHL is full of dinosaur GMs who don’t think outside the box. They are still lagging behind their NFL counterparts in how to handle the hard salary cap. Just look at the Couturier extension. Half the teams in the league, maybe more give out that extension. In a few years half or more won’t trade for it. I want a GM to be different the rest of the Idiots out there.
- psuhockey

In fact, they may be able to max his trade value now instead of later. I am reading Hertl stays, but I am assuming Pavelski is still in play. Lets say its a Giroux-Pavelski competition. A team that might hope for Joe later on might get leery of getting into a trade war in the days before the TDL frenzy and being outbidded and end up with nothing. Giroux now, if he is available, might be 2nd best but a safer bet if the price is reasonable.

I wish the organization would realize this. Step one would be to sit Yandle and get Zamula into the lineup. Followed by:
Shop and trade Jones and see what Sandstrom can do
Put Frost on a line with legit NHL players
and
Move Ratcliffe to L3 and see what the kid has
- BiggE

BiggE for GM!

In fact, they may be able to max his trade value now instead of later. I am reading Hertl stays, but I am assuming Pavelski is still in play. Lets say its a Giroux-Pavelski competition. A team that might hope for Joe later on might get leery of getting into a trade war in the days before the TDL frenzy and being outbidded and end up with nothing. Giroux now, if he is available, might be 2nd best but a safer bet if the price is reasonable.
- PT21

That type of market typically develops closer to the deadline also. It's certainly possible but many teams will wait until closer. Within a few weeks is when we should start seeing more moves made.

BiggE for GM!
- missingmike

I agree with that plan and expect that's what you'll see post deadline.

The kids should get a look.

There are certainly odds and probabilities of a trade happening now or in the near future. Giroux's price is not baked in. What the team is asking for might be baked in but trades are a negotiation and the price often changes in that negotiation. Waiting could absolutely add more teams. A team that may not see a need for Giroux now, could have a major injury to a top 6 center and now have interest in the player. A team may lose out on a player that they wanted more and then turn their eye to Giroux. Many possibilities. The very fact that more cap space will be opened up expands the market.



Yes, you did change the parameters. The price can go either way. More teams bidding can drive up the price. Less can lower it. Way to be specific on an "A" and a "B" asset. It's the equivalent of predicting the sun will come up. The cap is a legitimate reason why the trade market won't develop until closer to the deadline. You called that BS earlier. You refuted your own post. Well done.
- MJL

How does waiting open up more teams if Giroux gets to decide where he goes? Wouldn’t the list be the list?

So in paragraph you say Giroux’s price is not baked in and then say the contention that he will get an “A” asset and a “B” asset is like saying the Sun will rise. Which is it? Will he be getting more or is that the likely price? (Incase you didn’t read, I said an “A” asset is a first round pick or good prospect and a “B” asset is a 2nd rd pick or 2nd level prospect. You can add bottom half of roster young NHL player as a “B” asset. In case you want to find some real life trades to prove me wrong I also said the “B” can be upgraded to an “A” with a cap dump like in the Brayden Schenn trade.)

favorite play of the year...


Hart keeps the puck in play and doesn't want a faceoff in his zone, ref gives him time to play it, Hart gives it to Yandle. Yandle keeps his head down and just ices the puck. I have never seen a player make every wrong play.
- wcorvette

One thing I am very happy with this year is that Hart has for the most part remained strong despite the poop show around him. He seems to be blocking it out and just focused on doing what he can to give the team a chance to win each night. There's been no falling off the cliff like last year. Very encouraging to see that he's kept mentally strong this year.

One thing I am very happy with this year is that Hart has for the most part remained strong despite the poop show around him. He seems to be blocking it out and just focused on doing what he can to give the team a chance to win each night. There's been no falling off the cliff like last year. Very encouraging to see that he's kept mentally strong this year.
- Hextall271

mental is part of the game and yes, very happy with Hart. I am team positive but I see this season and want to focus on growth, Hart etc. What is needed to take a step forward. NO team gets the cup by following a straight line, it has all sort of turns.

Imagine Hart with actual structure in front of him. That can also be applied to the other players, these kids are being raised in a broken home

I think modern fans are smart enough to get behind a tank especially after the last 10 years. I also believe the fans will eventually demand one from this franchise if the next reload fails.
- psuhockey

Frankly, I am not sure I agree with you on this one, especially for this fan base, which has a significant Neanderthal segment. After having butted my head the past couple of years, I offer you some reasons for their positions:

1. Many fans just want to be entertained without thinking where it is all leading to. This entertainment will be significantly curtailed during rebuild years and they sense it and they balk.
2. The notion of probabilistic odds is too abstract.
3. Many people look at great players in top 5 of draft and great players outside top 5 of draft and make the mistake of overestimating the likelihood of the latter (not realizing there are 50 times more players to draw from in the 2nd set).
4. Rebuild takes a little patience which big city fans lack. I admire an Original 6 place like Detroit and what they have managed to do the past several years.

One thing I guarantee though is: just ignore the philosophical/moral aversion to tanking from fans. They are full of poop. They will come around. They always, always do.

How does waiting open up more teams if Giroux gets to decide where he goes? Wouldn’t the list be the list?


- psuhockey

Your original premise was the Flyers shouldn't wait to make moves until the deadline. That is not specific to just Giroux.

So in paragraph you say Giroux’s price is not baked in and then say the contention that he will get an “A” asset and a “B” asset is like saying the Sun will rise. Which is it? Will he be getting more or is that the likely price? (Incase you didn’t read, I said an “A” asset is a first round pick or good prospect and a “B” asset is a 2nd rd pick or 2nd level prospect. You can add bottom half of roster young NHL player as a “B” asset. In case you want to find some real life trades to prove me wrong I also said the “B” can be upgraded to an “A” with a cap dump like in the Brayden Schenn trade.)
- psuhockey

I've clearly talked about how the price will change depending on the circumstances. In terms of Giroux, depending on what's necessary can change the asking price. For example, are the Flyers just retaining 50% to make a deal happen. Or are they retaining and taking back a contract to make it work. If it is the latter, the asking price goes up. As far as the prediction is concerned, it has been widely discussed that would be the potential asking price in a Giroux trade but you're acting like you've got inside info and have the scoop.

I agree but I will say Bunnaman and the 4th line play has been one of the reasons the Flyers are playing better right now. I was never a huge fan of Bunnaman but if he can play a heavy game, he could carve out a 4th line role.

I would love to see some of the players progress. Hart, Bunnaman, Willman, Frost, York, Lindblom and TK. Maybe get Zamula in, Allison back and see if we can actually develop our young players
- wcorvette

I still have some expectations on points out of my 4th line. If they can hit 7-9 goals, perfect. But need a little production out of them.