JohnScammo
New York Islanders |
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Location: Coming to a jail near you Joined: 10.14.2014
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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Randomly calling players out:
Kyle Palmieri 28gp 1g 7A. $5m
Josh Bailey 33gp 3g 17a $3.1m
Anthony Beauvillier 35gp 7g 8a $4.15m
JGP 35gp 5g 7a $5m
Casey Cizikas 32gp 3g 1a $2.5m
$20m in salary has bought us 19 goals in 163gp. - keaner17
Bailey makes $5 mill a year..fyi
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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JohnScammo
New York Islanders |
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Location: Coming to a jail near you Joined: 10.14.2014
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I think Barzal's story is a lot more complicated than the players I mentioned. No he has most certainly not become the player I think we all had hoped he would be after his Calder year and the majority of that is on him. I also think Barry/Lou has done a terrible job in terms of providing him with a linemate that suits his skillset. (I know you'll love that one).
If we toss Barzal's rookie season out, he is averaging .80 ppg. This season he is .78ppg. So he's actually right on track with his average. During that stretch he has averaged 22 goals per season. With 10 goals in 36 games, he's right on path for exactly that. So overall, Barzal is having an average Barzal season. Would we prefer to see that chart trend up? Of course.
I think a big problem for folks with Barzal is they see his stickhandling ability and speed and immediately think he's automatic to be an elite top 10 player in the league where the reality is he will likely never be that. He may be near elite in terms of playmaking skill but that's it. He will never be a 40 goal 80 assist guy. That's just not him. I've heard someone on here say players like Crosby and Gretzky made people around them better, why doesn't Barzal. I'm not sure on what planet they would be on to think Matt Barzal will be within the zip code of either one of those players but maybe that's an example of where the problem for us lies just as much in the lofty expectations for him. For Barzal to be his best self, he needs a linemate that can help create space and defensive accountability with their ability to cash in on their own opportunities.
The Islanders design much of the breakouts on Barzal being the guy to take the puck up ice and gain entry before finding someone to dish to. Inevitably he's going to skate himself into some bad situations as defenses converge on him. So when trying to force pucks through, sometimes he'll look brilliant, other times he'll make ugly turnovers.
Sorry but when you're a guy whose best skillset is that of a speedy playmaker, it would make sense to pair him with a guy who is a good finisher. Not another playmaker (ie. Bailey) or a defensive stalwart. Barzy is always going to frustrate because of his style of play, but he'll never see his full potential if we keep sticking him with guys that belong on third lines or not in the NHL at all.
I guess I've just lowered my expectations on him. - keaner17
I agree with most of your assessment. However, I would just like to remind that play without the puck is equally important to play with the puck. (A goal prevented = a goal scored.) When Barzal's turnovers don't lead to so many odd man rushes the other way, then Barry can focus on playing wings on his line who are better finishers.......and not worry about compensating for his defensive lapses. |
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JohnScammo
New York Islanders |
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Location: Coming to a jail near you Joined: 10.14.2014
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pretty much sums it up... I apologize. - niteislander
No need. But thanks anyway. |
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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You know I kind of understand why we started the season the way we did.. forever this team overperformed b/c the world told them they stunk so they would try to prove everyone wrong.. etc. This year they were many of the hockey Morons pick to be a cup contender...etc. they thought they could just show up and win games and not have to grind everyone down and not play trotz hockey to win games. .... ok.. I get it.. then the Covid crap... I get that too.
At this point though.. How the fck can you not give 110% at this point. You are friggin Terrible!! You have the hockey world laughing at you again and you just lost 4 of 7 games at home to awful teams. How can they NOT have any urgency in their game??!! They were terrible last night.. .No one was crashing the net, no one was hitting, no one was skating.... How the fck can that happen??
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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Trotz said he was furious in his interview last night. (and yes I am going to vent about Trotz .. that doesn't mean I want to fire him.. fyi). If he was really furious he would make the HARD decisions and start benching VETERANS who absolutely suk. Bailey adds NOTHING to this team... bench his ass. Chara was a HUGE mistake signing... bench him too....What is Martin doing at this point? Anything? eff him too. Give Palmieri one more game and sit his forever too.
Play Czarnik, Bellows, Salo, and Johnston... at the very least they give a sht. |
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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I think Barzal's story is a lot more complicated than the players I mentioned. No he has most certainly not become the player I think we all had hoped he would be after his Calder year and the majority of that is on him. I also think Barry/Lou has done a terrible job in terms of providing him with a linemate that suits his skillset. (I know you'll love that one).
If we toss Barzal's rookie season out, he is averaging .80 ppg. This season he is .78ppg. So he's actually right on track with his average. During that stretch he has averaged 22 goals per season. With 10 goals in 36 games, he's right on path for exactly that. So overall, Barzal is having an average Barzal season. Would we prefer to see that chart trend up? Of course.
I think a big problem for folks with Barzal is they see his stickhandling ability and speed and immediately think he's automatic to be an elite top 10 player in the league where the reality is he will likely never be that. He may be near elite in terms of playmaking skill but that's it. He will never be a 40 goal 80 assist guy. That's just not him. I've heard someone on here say players like Crosby and Gretzky made people around them better, why doesn't Barzal. I'm not sure on what planet they would be on to think Matt Barzal will be within the zip code of either one of those players but maybe that's an example of where the problem for us lies just as much in the lofty expectations for him. For Barzal to be his best self, he needs a linemate that can help create space and defensive accountability with their ability to cash in on their own opportunities.
The Islanders design much of the breakouts on Barzal being the guy to take the puck up ice and gain entry before finding someone to dish to. Inevitably he's going to skate himself into some bad situations as defenses converge on him. So when trying to force pucks through, sometimes he'll look brilliant, other times he'll make ugly turnovers.
Sorry but when you're a guy whose best skillset is that of a speedy playmaker, it would make sense to pair him with a guy who is a good finisher. Not another playmaker (ie. Bailey) or a defensive stalwart. Barzy is always going to frustrate because of his style of play, but he'll never see his full potential if we keep sticking him with guys that belong on third lines or not in the NHL at all.
I guess I've just lowered my expectations on him. - keaner17
All fair and well said however, in growth I’m talking about not making the stupid turn overs and become an elite 2 way player. He certainly has the skill set to become one but just as Schwein had said the hockey IQ maybe llacking. I hope Barry can continue to work on that with the kid and honestly he’s one of the right men for that job.
Again the kid needs to become a complete player and grow.
That said the team in whole just seem to be off and I guess there are seasons where you fight it and seasons where it just works. |
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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All fair and well said however , short and sweet in growth I’m talking about not making the stupid turn overs and become an elite 2 way player. He certainly has the skill set to become one but just as Schwein had said the hockey IQ maybe llacking. I hope Barry can continue to work on that with the kid and honestly he’s one of the right men for that job.
Again the kid needs to become a complete player and grow.
That said the team in whole just seem to be off and I guess there are seasons where you fight it and seasons where it just works. - nyisles7
He need to friggin shoot the puck!! the whole team needs to shoot the puck! They should put a HUGE red circle on the ice between the dots and whenever they don't shoot in practice in that zone make them skate until they throw up... I have never seen a team constantly in perfect place to shoot that passes it to a guy instead who has a terrible angle at the net.
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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He need to friggin shoot the puck!! the whole team needs to shoot the puck! They should put a HUGE red circle on the ice between the dots and whenever they don't shoot in practice in that zone make them skate until they throw up... I have never seen a team constantly in perfect place to shoot that passes it to a guy instead who has a terrible angle at the net. - niteislander
True I scream shoot and he makes the cut to the boards looking to pass. The team in whole has been passing the puck looking for that perfect play which happens when your not scoring. Also when they do shoot they need to HIT THE (frank)ING NET ! |
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JohnScammo
New York Islanders |
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Location: Coming to a jail near you Joined: 10.14.2014
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So several years ago, when Tavares jumped ship, I figured the Isles were ripe for another total rebuild. They had just gone 2 years under Weight without making the playoffs........and then lost their best player, receiving NOTHING in return.
But Lou, a proven GM, hired a proven coach and made a few minor tweaks to the roster. Barry was able to squeeze three playoff-bound seasons out of the group, and even managed 2 deep playoff runs. Pretty impressive for a team without much elite talent.
Now, however, I think it's time to recognize the reality. This team is just an older version of that team that wasn't quite good enough to make it to the Cup finals. And arguably less talented, having lost Leddy and Eberle. It's time to think about a total rebuild. The identity line just ain't what it used to be. Lou went all out to protect those guys in the expansion draft, and I applauded him for that at the time. In retrospect, it may have been mistake. Those guys are not the difference makers they once were on a consistent basis.
There are some young guys I would probably keep to build the team around. But if I'm Lou, I'm listening to offers on almost everyone. |
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kasperrko
New York Islanders |
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Location: Spring Hill, FL Joined: 03.09.2007
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This team embarrassed themselves last night. It was like they had no interest in playing. It’s time to make those tough decisions for this team. I love most players on this team unless your name is Josh Bailey but it’s not working anymore. This team been together for years. We are old |
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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So several years ago, when Tavares jumped ship, I figured the Isles were ripe for another total rebuild. They had just gone 2 years under Weight without making the playoffs........and then lost their best player, receiving NOTHING in return.
But Lou, a proven GM, hired a proven coach and made a few minor tweaks to the roster. Barry was able to squeeze three playoff-bound seasons out of the group, and even managed 2 deep playoff runs. Pretty impressive for a team without much elite talent.
Now, however, I think it's time to recognize the reality. This team is just an older version of that team that wasn't quite good enough to make it to the Cup finals. And arguably less talented, having lost Leddy and Eberle. It's time to think about a total rebuild. The identity line just ain't what it used to be. Lou went all out to protect those guys in the expansion draft, and I applauded him for that at the time. In retrospect, it may have been mistake. Those guys are not the difference makers they once were on a consistent basis.
There are some young guys I would probably keep to build the team around. But if I'm Lou, I'm listening to offers on almost everyone. - JohnScammo
Welll said and certainly a way Lou may go. I don’t think it will be a total rebuild but changes are certainly called for. Only because I wonder if they look at the schedule, Covid and injuries that hit the team this season as the reason and give the majority of the group another go. Not saying this is right way to go but it could be Lou and CO’s thinking. |
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keaner17
New York Islanders |
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Location: Prepared for the worst Joined: 07.12.2007
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Bailey makes $5 mill a year..fyi - niteislander
Ugh, thats right! |
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keaner17
New York Islanders |
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Location: Prepared for the worst Joined: 07.12.2007
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I agree with most of your assessment. However, I would just like to remind that play without the puck is equally important to play with the puck. (A goal prevented = a goal scored.) When Barzal's turnovers don't lead to so many odd man rushes the other way, then Barry can focus on playing wings on his line who are better finishers.......and not worry about compensating for his defensive lapses. - JohnScammo
I think his defensive lapses are exaggerated but certainly do happen. He's never going to be Michael Peca. Point being you're wasting his talents if you feel you want him to commit more defensively while also saddling him with guys who can't take advantage of his strengths
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JohnScammo
New York Islanders |
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Location: Coming to a jail near you Joined: 10.14.2014
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I think his defensive lapses are exaggerated but certainly do happen. He's never going to be Michael Peca. Point being you're wasting his talents if you feel you want him to commit more defensively while also saddling him with guys who can't take advantage of his strengths - keaner17
One of my all-time favorite post-dynasty Islanders.
Fair enough. I am not expecting him to be another Peca. But he's -7 on the season, which is 3rd worst on the team, behind only Beau (-8) and Palms (-13) . |
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keaner17
New York Islanders |
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Location: Prepared for the worst Joined: 07.12.2007
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True I scream shoot and he makes the cut to the boards looking to pass. The team in whole has been passing the puck looking for that perfect play which happens when your not scoring. Also when they do shoot they need to HIT THE (frank)ING NET ! - nyisles7
I can't remember who the analyst was, but someone said that the Isles are coached to be reserved in their shot selections due to the teams valuing of puck possession time. This isnt necessarily accurate for Barzy, as Barry has made his desire Barzy shoots more quite apparent. It does seem to be a mentality that carries over whith just about everyone at this point. |
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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I agree with most of your assessment. However, I would just like to remind that play without the puck is equally important to play with the puck. (A goal prevented = a goal scored.) When Barzal's turnovers don't lead to so many odd man rushes the other way, then Barry can focus on playing wings on his line who are better finishers.......and not worry about compensating for his defensive lapses. - JohnScammo
100% JS |
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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I think his defensive lapses are exaggerated but certainly do happen. He's never going to be Michael Peca. Point being you're wasting his talents if you feel you want him to commit more defensively while also saddling him with guys who can't take advantage of his strengths - keaner17
I’m thinking more a Bergy type. No reason why not.
On his line mates. On the PP he has many weapons to dish to and he commits the same dumb TO”s. If you blame it on others then you (he) isn’t going to learn and get better. Kids young and you want him to become that complete 2 way player. |
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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I don't think they are in "total rebuild" territory, but they got OLDER during the summer and they were not young to begin with... I tried to excuse them trading Toews the year before as a "going to lose him in the expansion draft" move but to then Trade Leddy and leave Eberle exposed was an absolutely absurd move. You traded 2 of your top 4 d-men and then added a guy who is as old as I am... lost your first line Wing and added a 37 year old Parise who was just paid MILLIONS to leave his last team.
this is a Young and fast league.. and we keep making moves that make us slower and older?
We have a very solid core of players in Barzal, Brock, JGP, and Casey down the middle. Pulock and Pelech on D.. Mayfield is a good 3rd pairing and Dobson will eventually be a solid 2nd pairing guy. Chara stinks and Greene is "OK" at best.
Sorokin is obviously our franchise goalie going forward. so it's not a total rebuild.. but we need to move some friggin dead weight at this point. |
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keaner17
New York Islanders |
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Location: Prepared for the worst Joined: 07.12.2007
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I’m thinking more a Bergy type. No reason why not.
On his line mates. On the PP he has many weapons to dish to and he commits the same dumb TO”s. If you blame it on others then you (he) isn’t going to learn and get better. Kids young and you want him to become that complete 2 way player. - nyisles7
I just don't think you're likely to see him improve that much in those categories without more talent on his line. Given his experience will likely help him bring the giveaway numbers down a bit, the role he plays on the team is always going to have him far away the leader and giveaways. Subsequently for all the complaints about him in the defensive zone he's second on the team in takeaways behind Pelech.
His Calder year set the expectations too high IMO. He was in a perfect situation playing as a 2C thus avoiding the tougher defensive matchups. He clearly misses having a finisher like Eberle and that remains a soit this team needs ti upgrade to capitalize in his talents.
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niteislander
New York Islanders |
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Location: NY Joined: 01.13.2010
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Kills me with all the guys that were available this summer that we signed none of them...Seth Jones, Hamilton, Barrie, TonyD, .. even Alec Martinez would have been worlds better than a 44 year old Chara. |
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keaner17
New York Islanders |
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Location: Prepared for the worst Joined: 07.12.2007
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I don't think they are in "total rebuild" territory, but they got OLDER during the summer and they were not young to begin with... I tried to excuse them trading Toews the year before as a "going to lose him in the expansion draft" move but to then Trade Leddy and leave Eberle exposed was an absolutely absurd move. You traded 2 of your top 4 d-men and then added a guy who is as old as I am... lost your first line Wing and added a 37 year old Parise who was just paid MILLIONS to leave his last team.
this is a Young and fast league.. and we keep making moves that make us slower and older?
We have a very solid core of players in Barzal, Brock, JGP, and Casey down the middle. Pulock and Pelech on D.. Mayfield is a good 3rd pairing and Dobson will eventually be a solid 2nd pairing guy. Chara stinks and Greene is "OK" at best.
Sorokin is obviously our franchise goalie going forward. so it's not a total rebuild.. but we need to move some friggin dead weight at this point. - niteislander
Agreed here.
Barzy, Lee, Beau, Nelson, Wally, Pageau, Zeeker, Pelly, Pulock, Mayfield, Salo and Sorokin would be my core.
We're not going to be able to sell Palmieri due to his contract so he'll remain. Martin too. Unfortunately I think we're stuck with Bailey too.
The rest of the pending UFA's should be dealt for picks.
My concern here is even with those job openings, this organization has continued to place too much emphesis on experience over talent. This league more than ever is predicated on youth and speed. Unless the club reverses their stance on that, I'd worry our new additions might be more of the same
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nyisles7
New York Islanders |
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Location: Wrong timing, NY Joined: 01.20.2009
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I just don't think you're likely to see him improve that much in those categories without more talent on his line. Given his experience will likely help him bring the giveaway numbers down a bit, the role he plays on the team is always going to have him far away the leader and giveaways. Subsequently for all the complaints about him in the defensive zone he's second on the team in takeaways behind Pelech.
His Calder year set the expectations too high IMO. He was in a perfect situation playing as a 2C thus avoiding the tougher defensive matchups. He clearly misses having a finisher like Eberle and that remains a soit this team needs ti upgrade to capitalize in his talents. - keaner17
He’s an extremely talented player with unbelievable skating ability, hence his take aways. However the give always need to be cleaned up. If he wants to be that player he can be. He just needs to want it. Again it’s easy to make excuses for him but that doesn’t help him get better. For me one guy can’t do it alone and you can’t blame others for your miscues. Learn from them.
Below is a part of the Athletic writers view.
“But just plugging in some young legs for spot duty here and there won’t be enough, especially considering it wasn’t just one or two misplays by depth players that cost the Islanders against the Kraken. The top players had off nights, too. The top line of Lee, Mathew Barzal and Josh Bailey, in particular, had a rough time and was on the ice for the two goals against at five-on-five when they were out-chanced 5-1, according to Natural Stat Trick. Barzal especially looked lost; he was tagged with a game-high four giveaways and managed just one shot on goal.
“You’re only as good as your top players. Our top players weren’t very good tonight,” Trotz said. “Our workers were OK. Our top players weren’t very good tonight.”
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