There are a few unconventional things they could do, but they wouldn't.

1. Ask Giroux now for his waiver teams, and go to them and offer Giroux at a discount. Say, just the first roubd pick and no 1B prospect needed (and retain max and take on whatever salary dump comes the other way for this to work). The signing team gets a discount and doesn't end up caught in a bidding war if there is one. For the Flyers, the effect of losing Giroux early probably moves them up 3-4 places in the draft order this year (as psuhockey mentioned a few days ago). This more than compensates for the middling prospect foregone.

2. Vegas need cap space. Trade Ryan Ellis for a middling prospect as LTIR space provider, with $1 mil salary retained. If he works out for Vegas, they keep him post-playoffs. if not, they buy him out, and the buyout cost for them will be less than 1 m (its less than 2m overall without salary retained, and I assume we will continue to pay the retained salary part.)

3.Retain salary if necessary to max return for Risto. Get whatever you can for him.

4. Choose trade partners wisely when the return is picks. For example, of Giroux indeed has Wild, Blues, Avs and Canes, choose Blues. Blues likely match up is Vegas in the 1st round. Vegas in playoffs is going to be a very different vegas than regular season. Eichel should be fit. Ditto Stone and Martinez. That could be a top 20 pick. Use that pick and our own to move up as high as you can get this year.

5. Follow Wild strategy and buyout Hayes. Wild will have Kaprisov, Boldy, Rossi, Wallstedt as part of their core. Next 2-3 years, the cost of buyout is so severe, they will add to this with high picks (they are forced to kinda tank). 3 Years from now, suddenly, at the prime of all these prospects/picks, they will have lots of salary cap space as buyout burden eases by a lot and further Zucs contract comes off books. Buyout offers perfect legitimacy to tank and indeed, boxes you in by cutting salary space.

I know however they will do none of these things.

When Hexy got canned, we were consistent goaltending away from regularly making the playoffs. Cliff brought a bias for action that would take us to the next level. How is that next level working out for us? Not so well, it seems. He hired the wrong coach whom he had to fire and has spent all of our salary cap with worse results. Now, we are apparently tanking in the hope that we might get a high pick. Some bias. Some action. Some outcome. Nice going Dave S. I hope Bobby Clarke lets you get a lot of jock-sniffing in so that you can feel like you are doing something right.
- iamscore2day

Do you really think Clarke had this much say these days? Last I heard is he golfs 6 days a week in Florida. I do think Fletch’s hiring had Clarke written all over it, but I don’t blame anyone other the Fletcher for the last two years.

2. Vegas need cap space. Trade Ryan Ellis for a middling prospect as LTIR space provider, with $1 mil salary retained. If he works out for Vegas, they keep him post-playoffs. if not, they buy him out, and the buyout cost for them will be less than 1 m (its less than 2m overall without salary retained, and I assume we will continue to pay the retained salary part.)



- PT21

This is actually funny. Vegas would not trade for Ellis unless it was declared that his injury is career ending. I think you need to do more research on buyouts.

This what a buyout of Ellis looks like. Factor in the 1M retained salary

https://www.capfriendly.c...out-calculator/ryan-ellis

Next 3 games are Penguins, Caps, Canes. Time to go streaking again.
This season can't end soon enough.
- PLindbergh31

Crapitools setting losing records on homeice. The flyers could have helped them stop that if the game was in Washington 😑

When Hexy got canned, we were consistent goaltending away from regularly making the playoffs. Cliff brought a bias for action that would take us to the next level. How is that next level working out for us? Not so well, it seems. He hired the wrong coach whom he had to fire and has spent all of our salary cap with worse results. Now, we are apparently tanking in the hope that we might get a high pick. Some bias. Some action. Some outcome. Nice going Dave S. I hope Bobby Clarke lets you get a lot of jock-sniffing in so that you can feel like you are doing something right.
- iamscore2day

You are delusional if you think that. Flyers were not consistent goaltending away from a consistent playoff team.

#1 We used what 8 goaltenders that season? We had no goaltending.

#2
Please explain how the following Roster was just a goalie away from being more than a bubble team which they already where?

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
JVR - NoPa - Konecny
Lindblom - Laughton - Simmonds/Hartman
Raffl - Varone - NAK

Weise/Lehtera/Bailey/Weal/Vorobyev/Knight

Provorov - Gudas
Ghost - AMac
Sanheim - Myers

Friedman/Hagg/Folin

Elliot
Neuvirth

Talbot/Stolarz/Pikard/Mckenna/Lyon/Hart

This was a god awful team nowhere near being a consistent playoff team.

Rams 30

Bengals 27


And I win 4000 $ with my square….first time I’ve ever had a 7 and a 0….

I would get giving up Newhook if they thought this was their one shot for a cup but they’re fairly young. They shouldn’t be that desperate for a rental.
- hereticpride

I agree. Early in the season they were concerned about secondary scoring with the loss of Donskoi and Saad. Now they need Newhook for that secondary scoring.

Hextall didn't create a mess, he inherited one. LOL. A team with major cap issues and no prospect base. Hextall straightened out the cap and had the team better positioned for the future than it is now after he left.



Stating that this team lacks any sort of young talent in inaccurate and misguided. Your comment that the team was just as bare when Hextall left is also not accurate. Fletcher has traded multiple high draft picks and capped out the team with veteran players who are far more likely to be cap anchors than key players on a legit cup contending team.



I disagree that Hextall changed nothing. He added some quality players to the team and was not given a chance to finish what he started. Hextall got fired because the country club got restless and the incompetent organization would not further commit to what needed to be done. Now since Fletcher took over, the team is worst positioned. The injuries may partially bail them out and get them a better pick.

.

Koenecny is a 2nd line winger. Sanheim is a 2nd pair defenseman. Hart has all the talent and ability to be a quality #1 NHL goaltender. If they ever get a coaching staff in here that can fix the teams play, we might see that more. Lindblom is a quality player and is the kind of player that every good team needs as a 3rd line winger.
Provorov is ultimately probably better off as a #2 but he's played as the team's #1 since he's been here. He is a better player than given credit for.



It would help if the Flyers weren't incompetent in developing young players.




Fletcher was mandated to improve the team but overall he has done an awful job with the Flyers. Hextall was solid here. Not perfect and made some mistakes but he moved the team forward.



The Flyers have mishandled Frost all season and right now having Frost and York in the AHL is incompetence. Both belong in the NHL. York playing with Braun and Frost on a scoring line with the Flyers top offensive players.
- MJL

1) No Fletcher didnt. He traded a 2nd and 3rd for Braun. Traded a 2nd to dump Ghost and a 1st and a 2nd in a shallow draft for Ristolainen. Where did Fletcher move important picks and prospects?

2) Where is this so called Talent Hextall Drafted? AHL team has trash on it aside from Frost - excluding Fletcher's picks. Hextall's young players on the team are part of the problem

3) Just because a player plays a top 6 spot on a team doesnt mean he's actually fit for that position. Konecny is not as good as was expected. He isnt good with the puck, he doesnt make good decisions with the puck and unless someone is feeding him pucks in scoring spots he is useless. Sanheim is the same, he is constantly outmuscled, he often loses his coverage and he doesnt generate enough offense for an offensively skilled Dman.

4) Hextall did a good job of clearing dead space but he did his fair share of wasting space too. He signed Voracek long term to an 8 mill deal, gave JVR 7 mill long term, signed Weise. You are 100% biased. You choose to ignore all his faults and you live or die by it because you need to believe you are the smartest poster here.

5) You suggest the Flyers are incompent of developing players but whos fault is that? Hextall hires and employs the development team. If the development team is garbage thats on him as a hiring manager.

Overall aside from a few good picks here and there and clearing some cap. He did nothing.

Couldn't say it better myself, wonderful post!
- jd250

God knows you say enough

Do you really think Clarke had this much say these days? Last I heard is he golfs 6 days a week in Florida. I do think Fletch’s hiring had Clarke written all over it, but I don’t blame anyone other the Fletcher for the last two years.
- landros 2

Of course they do, fits their narrative.

SO much eye vomit the last 3 pages

1) No Fletcher didnt. He traded a 2nd and 3rd for Braun. Traded a 2nd to dump Ghost and a 1st and a 2nd in a shallow draft for Ristolainen. Where did Fletcher move important picks and prospects?

2) Where is this so called Talent Hextall Drafted? AHL team has trash on it aside from Frost - excluding Fletcher's picks. Hextall's young players on the team are part of the problem

3) Just because a player plays a top 6 spot on a team doesnt mean he's actually fit for that position. Konecny is not as good as was expected. He isnt good with the puck, he doesnt make good decisions with the puck and unless someone is feeding him pucks in scoring spots he is useless. Sanheim is the same, he is constantly outmuscled, he often loses his coverage and he doesnt generate enough offense for an offensively skilled Dman.

4) Hextall did a good job of clearing dead space but he did his fair share of wasting space too. He signed Voracek long term to an 8 mill deal, gave JVR 7 mill long term, signed Weise. You are 100% biased. You choose to ignore all his faults and you live or die by it because you need to believe you are the smartest poster here.

5) You suggest the Flyers are incompent of developing players but whos fault is that? Hextall hires and employs the development team. If the development team is garbage thats on him as a hiring manager.

Overall aside from a few good picks here and there and clearing some cap. He did nothing.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

also complains that ivan was installed as a #1 from the beginning. Well his dad the Saint never addressed getting him any help now did he? Is he to blame for his lack of development? He let Ivan SanHeim and the other young d get thrown to the wolves.

fletcher recognized that and he went and acquired Nisky and Braun. Amazes me some think he overpaid for Braun and female dog about it saying he wasted assets.

1) No Fletcher didnt. He traded a 2nd and 3rd for Braun. Traded a 2nd to dump Ghost and a 1st and a 2nd in a shallow draft for Ristolainen. Where did Fletcher move important picks and prospects?


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

For a team in the Flyers position, every draft pick is important. The incompetent GM traded 3 top 60 draft picks and Gostisbehere and Haag to add a mediocre 2nd pair defenseman. The shallow draft argument is asinine.

2) Where is this so called Talent Hextall Drafted? AHL team has trash on it aside from Frost - excluding Fletcher's picks. Hextall's young players on the team are part of the problem


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

It's worse than I thought.

Provorov, Sanheim, Hart, Konecny, Farabee, Frost, Lindblom, Allison.

3) Just because a player plays a top 6 spot on a team doesnt mean he's actually fit for that position. Konecny is not as good as was expected. He isnt good with the puck, he doesnt make good decisions with the puck and unless someone is feeding him pucks in scoring spots he is useless. Sanheim is the same, he is constantly outmuscled, he often loses his coverage and he doesnt generate enough offense for an offensively skilled Dman.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Konecny has 3 24 goal seasons as well as leading the Flyers in scoring with 61 points one season. That is 2nd line level production. Konecny has also shown that he has the ability to be an offensive catalyst.
While I would agree that Sanheim has defensive deficiencies, he has shown the ability to put up solid point totals at 5 on 5 as a 2nd pair defenseman. He has never been used consistently on the PP.
You're useless comment is hyperbole and inaccurate.

4) Hextall did a good job of clearing dead space but he did his fair share of wasting space too. He signed Voracek long term to an 8 mill deal, gave JVR 7 mill long term, signed Weise. You are 100% biased. You choose to ignore all his faults and you live or die by it because you need to believe you are the smartest poster here.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Voracek was an elite level player when Hextall signed him. Finishing 5th in the league in scoring and 2nd in assists.
I don't ignore anything. By labeling Hextall as having done a solid job, there are faults inferred. Otherwise, I would state that he did a great job.
You're getting personal now. I don't believe that I'm the smartest poster here. However I do believe that I'm a smarter poster than you are.

5) You suggest the Flyers are incompent of developing players but whos fault is that? Hextall hires and employs the development team. If the development team is garbage thats on him as a hiring manager.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

I don't suggest it. I flat out say it. Hextall is not the GM now and the incompetence I refer to is the current organization, GM and coaches and the current philosophy that have adopted since firing Hextall.

Overall aside from a few good picks here and there and clearing some cap. He did nothing.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Disagree completely. Hextall set the team up with some quality young talent and an improved cap and prospect base. He had the team in a better position than it is in now.

Player development stalled under AV

For a team in the Flyers position, every draft pick is important. The incompetent GM traded 3 top 60 draft picks and Gostisbehere and Haag to add a mediocre 2nd pair defenseman. The shallow draft argument is asinine.



It's worse than I thought.

Provorov, Sanheim, Hart, Konecny, Farabee, Frost, Lindblom, Allison.




Konecny has 3 24 goal seasons as well as leading the Flyers in scoring with 61 points one season. That is 2nd line level production. Konecny has also shown that he has the ability to be an offensive catalyst.
While I would agree that Sanheim has defensive deficiencies, he has shown the ability to put up solid point totals at 5 on 5 as a 2nd pair defenseman. He has never been used consistently on the PP.
You're useless comment is hyperbole and inaccurate.



Voracek was an elite level player when Hextall signed him. Finishing 5th in the league in scoring and 2nd in assists.
I don't ignore anything. By labeling Hextall as having done a solid job, there are faults inferred. Otherwise, I would state that he did a great job.
You're getting personal now. I don't believe that I'm the smartest poster here. However I do believe that I'm a smarter poster than you are.




I don't suggest it. I flat out say it. Hextall is not the GM now and the incompetence I refer to is the current organization, GM and coaches and the current philosophy that have adopted since firing Hextall.




Disagree completely. Hextall set the team up with some quality young talent and an improved cap and prospect base. He had the team in a better position than it is in now.
- MJL

That is your core lol....That is a joke of a core. Pretty much all secondary players.

61 points looks like a total anomaly doesn't it? Lets talk about his other seasons which is the larger sample.

The Saint it seemed like at the time set them up for some future success. Now 3 years later those players are not what everyone thought including the Saint and Fletcher. So the reality is he didn't set them for anything.

Hextall sucked , Fletcher sucks

That is your core lol....That is a joke of a core. Pretty much all secondary players.

61 points looks like a total anomaly doesn't it? Lets talk about his other seasons which is the larger sample.

The Saint it seemed like at the time set them up for some future success. Now 3 years later those players are not what everyone thought including the Saint and Fletcher. So the reality is he didn't set them for anything.
- hello it's me 2050

There’s not a single difference maker on that list. Hart is a slightly above average goalie. Hextall was horrible.

Player development stalled under AV
- THE BLACK HAND

No question. I wanted the Flyers to hire AV. Rangers fans told me that he was terrible with young players. I didn't believe them. I was wrong. Yeo is just as bad.

SO much eye vomit the last 3 pages
- THE BLACK HAND

Prior pages were eye candy?

For a team in the Flyers position, every draft pick is important. The incompetent GM traded 3 top 60 draft picks and Gostisbehere and Haag to add a mediocre 2nd pair defenseman. The shallow draft argument is asinine.



It's worse than I thought.

Provorov, Sanheim, Hart, Konecny, Farabee, Frost, Lindblom, Allison.




Konecny has 3 24 goal seasons as well as leading the Flyers in scoring with 61 points one season. That is 2nd line level production. Konecny has also shown that he has the ability to be an offensive catalyst.
While I would agree that Sanheim has defensive deficiencies, he has shown the ability to put up solid point totals at 5 on 5 as a 2nd pair defenseman. He has never been used consistently on the PP.
You're useless comment is hyperbole and inaccurate.



Voracek was an elite level player when Hextall signed him. Finishing 5th in the league in scoring and 2nd in assists.
I don't ignore anything. By labeling Hextall as having done a solid job, there are faults inferred. Otherwise, I would state that he did a great job.
You're getting personal now. I don't believe that I'm the smartest poster here. However I do believe that I'm a smarter poster than you are.




I don't suggest it. I flat out say it. Hextall is not the GM now and the incompetence I refer to is the current organization, GM and coaches and the current philosophy that have adopted since firing Hextall.




Disagree completely. Hextall set the team up with some quality young talent and an improved cap and prospect base. He had the team in a better position than it is in now.
- MJL

Ghost wasnt working, he didnt work even before AV. Since his breakout season he has done nothing but disappoint. Its laughable you even mention Hagg. Hagg is a nothing player. He is on his best day a bottom pair Dman. Hagg will never be relevant.

You keep saying Hextall cleared cap space but if you refer to Capfriendly Archives. Fletcher arrived with 8 mill in Cap space. Fletcher must be fantastic because he's gonna have 13 mill to work with next season.

Fact is the Flyers are a big market team. They are always going to be at the cap limit much like most big market teams. Small market teams dont have the internal revenue to throw big money at free agents. No matter who the GM is big teams are always going to throw money at big FAs that is what the FA is for. To bid on the best players available for their services. They typically give you an edge on the opposition. The market dictates the price. That is why money is thrown around every year. Flyers should always be at the cap limit, if they arent, they arent doing everything they can to win.

Another winner I forgot to mention was the Hextall signing of Andrew MacDonald at 5 mill for 6 years. Hextall negotiated this contract. He was not the saviour you think he was.

Konecny had 1 60 point season. Closest before that was 49 points. He had a successful season that was it. He's not that good. He hasnt even gotten close since. He is a player that is elevated by the players around him. If they cant do the heavy lifting he is a non factor

Ghost wasnt working, he didnt work even before AV. Since his breakout season he has done nothing but disappoint. Its laughable you even mention Hagg. Hagg is a nothing player. He is on his best day a bottom pair Dman. Hagg will never be relevant.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

LOL. Flyers have been employing Nick Seeler, Kevin Connauton and Keith Yandle on the 3rd pair. Haag is better than all 3. What's laughable is that you one, discount Gostisbehere as a player, he's doing fine in Phoenix. Secondly that you focus on Haag and ignore the main point that the GM made an absolutely awful trade.

You keep saying Hextall cleared cap space but if you refer to Capfriendly Archives. Fletcher arrived with 8 mill in Cap space. Fletcher must be fantastic because he's gonna have 13 mill to work with next season.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

This doesn't make any sense. Fletcher also has to add defenseman and replace Giroux. The truth is that Fletcher has the team that without the injuries was at best a bubble playoff team that is capped out. He's likely to double down on the course that they've been on and try and wheel and deal his way to the Cup. Good luck.

Fact is the Flyers are a big market team. They are always going to be at the cap limit much like most big market teams. Small market teams dont have the internal revenue to throw big money at free agents. No matter who the GM is big teams are always going to throw money at big FAs that is what the FA is for. To bid on the best players available for their services. They typically give you an edge on the opposition. The market dictates the price. That is why money is thrown around every year. Flyers should always be at the cap limit, if they arent, they arent doing everything they can to win.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

This again makes no sense. Just because a big market team has financial resources is not an excuse for poor management. Your statement that the Flyers should always be at the cap limit shows a lack of understanding of the modern day NHL and how you have to approach Team building in the cap era. That mantra is exactly why the team is where it is and is likely only going to make things worse.

Another winner I forgot to mention was the Hextall signing of Andrew MacDonald at 5 mill for 6 years. Hextall negotiated this contract. He was not the saviour you think he was.


- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Holmgren was the GM, not Hextall.

Konecny had 1 60 point season. Closest before that was 49 points. He had a successful season that was it. He's not that good. He hasnt even gotten close since. He is a player that is elevated by the players around him. If they cant do the heavy lifting he is a non factor
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Konecny had those points as a young developing player who was progressing nicely. He has clearly shown the ability and talent that he has. It was only until the mismanagement of a dysfunctional organization kicked in that Konecny as well as many other players started to regress. Konecny was doing fine under Hextall.

Do you really think Clarke had this much say these days? Last I heard is he golfs 6 days a week in Florida. I do think Fletch’s hiring had Clarke written all over it, but I don’t blame anyone other the Fletcher for the last two years.
- landros 2

Don't take my word for it. Bill M and others have pointed out that Chucky and Bobby are close and huddle up a lot. This is why he was so defensive about Chuckie and had to attack Hexy and a number of our prospects. If you go back and look, you can find the postings.

Don't take my word for it. Bill M and others have pointed out that Chucky and Bobby are close and huddle up a lot. This is why he was so defensive about Chuckie and had to attack Hexy and a number of our prospects. If you go back and look, you can find the postings.
- iamscore2day

What he said is Clarke is around more. As I said I think Clarke had a voice in the decision to hire Fletcher. ( which although taking a wait and see approach, didn’t exactly get me excited). But in that interview with Clarke he didn’t exactly sound like a guy that had very much say or contact. Who knows but that was my take.

LOL. Flyers have been employing Nick Seeler, Kevin Connauton and Keith Yandle on the 3rd pair. Haag is better than all 3. What's laughable is that you one, discount Gostisbehere as a player, he's doing fine in Phoenix. Secondly that you focus on Haag and ignore the main point that the GM made an absolutely awful trade.
- MJL

Yandle was expected to be better. Seeler and Connaughton were not supposed to be long term players. You do realize we have a ton of injuries right? Flyers D going into the season was expected to be:

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Ristolainen
Yandle - Braun

Buy hey keep pushing your false narrative that Hagg is somehow a piece that would have kept this team together. He must have turned Buffalo around right?

This doesn't make any sense. Fletcher also has to add defenseman and replace Giroux. The truth is that Fletcher has the team that without the injuries was at best a bubble playoff team that is capped out. He's likely to double down on the course that they've been on and try and wheel and deal his way to the Cup. Good luck.

We would probably be a wildcard team with the potential to be better. If Hayes and Couturier are healthy the offense doesnt dry up. It also prevents guys like Macewen and Willman from being brought up. Ellis puts Braun on D with Yandle which likely reduces his liability on the ice. At the end of the day our defense would improve, we'd move the puck better and our offense would be stronger.

This again makes no sense. Just because a big market team has financial resources is not an excuse for poor management. Your statement that the Flyers should always be at the cap limit shows a lack of understanding of the modern day NHL and how you have to approach Team building in the cap era. That mantra is exactly why the team is where it is and is likely only going to make things worse.

This is Laughable. I guess Tampa Bay doesnt understand the modern day NHL. They have been over the cap limit for years. All it got them was 2 Stanley Cups.... Look at cap friendly. Majority of the teams are near the cap limit or over. This modern day NHL is apparently a mystical premise only you understand. How you arent a GM is mystifying

Holmgren was the GM, not Hextall.

Hextall negotiated the contract genius...... Bill has stated this 100x Maybe 101x will finally get it through your thick skull.

Konecny had those points as a young developing player who was progressing nicely. He has clearly shown the ability and talent that he has. It was only until the mismanagement of a dysfunctional organization kicked in that Konecny as well as many other players started to regress. Konecny was doing fine under Hextall.

Konecny also had those points playing with the likes of Couturier and Giroux. Look what happens when they arent around to carry him? He was also looking to earn a fat contract. You can tell by the way he plays, he is content with with his game. It is a huge reason why players like him fizzle out. They stop trying to improve. Theres always another player looking to take your job and Farabee took it. He is not top 6 material.

You are delusional if you think that. Flyers were not consistent goaltending away from a consistent playoff team.

#1 We used what 8 goaltenders that season? We had no goaltending.

#2
Please explain how the following Roster was just a goalie away from being more than a bubble team which they already where?

Giroux - Couturier - Voracek
JVR - NoPa - Konecny
Lindblom - Laughton - Simmonds/Hartman
Raffl - Varone - NAK

Weise/Lehtera/Bailey/Weal/Vorobyev/Knight

Provorov - Gudas
Ghost - AMac
Sanheim - Myers

Friedman/Hagg/Folin

Elliot
Neuvirth

Talbot/Stolarz/Pikard/Mckenna/Lyon/Hart

This was a god awful team nowhere near being a consistent playoff team.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Flyer had awful goaltending despite Hexy's signing of the best free agent goalie. Homer screwed the franchise big time in his assessment, signing and trading of goalies. When Hakstol had decent goaltending, he made the playoffs. You can hate this analysis, but I did not make it up. Here is an example. https://www.broadstreetho...ired-goaltending-analysis
There are other similar analyses. Under Fletch, we signed many d-men and our defense and team defense blows. His trades and coaches have made it worse.
Not ready to beatify Hexy but Fletch has screwed it all up. The guy is clueless and he and his buddy Bobby work together to set us back by another 5 years. I feel like this fanbase is a large selection of white rats in a large experiment to see how much stupidity and abuse a fanbase can absorb.