MJL, you and I will just have to agree to disagree. He’s one of leaders at the helm of this organization (GM, coach, president, captain). I ask why has this team gone off the rails constantly in recent seasons as soon as a little bit of adversity hits? Giroux is leader in that locker room. You can’t point that dysfunction solely at others when this now stems across multiple administrations.


- Sublime55

Lack of talent and coaching have been the issues. Not Giroux's leadership.

You seem to also be conflating individual production with team performance. No one doubts Giroux’s importance as a point producer. His legacy here is secure and his number will one day be retired and recognized as one of the better players to ever don a Flyers Jersey. His legacy as a captain is more muddled and it’s fair to wonder whether he’s best suited to have been captain all these years.
- Sublime55

You seem to lack the understanding that a players individual play on the ice, is leadership. It is leadership and leading by example. It is far more important than any behind the scenes leadership could possibly be. As the team captain, what more could you ask for than to have a player go out for over a decade, for almost a 1000 games and be generally the teams best player or among their best players game after game after game? On generally crappy to average teams?
The issue is that many, including yourself don't know what leadership is. People hear scuttlebutt and hearsay information about Giroux's personality. About how he's not a rah-rah in your face kind of leader and place blame on him for the overall team deficiencies. Fall back on clichés, which is the best you can do to make your case. While ignoring how he has carried the team on his back in the past. The team has been dysfunctional due to lack of talent, injuries, poor coaching and poor team building. It's a shame Giroux has not had a high enough level of super powers to overcome all of that all of the time.

Last nights story was the same thing we’ve seen for a decade. 20 good minutes out of 60. Nowhere near good enough.

What else has been a constant through it all? In terms of Giroux's play, what has been a constant? Many such as yourself want to ignore or perhaps just aren't aware of what the true constants are that have plagued the team and ultimately caused the results you speak of.
- MJL

Folks act like this is basketball. One guy on a hockey team really doesn’t have that much influence. It takes a bunch of players to make up a good leadership group as well.

Briere had the ability to do that in the playoffs. I haven’t seen Giroux do that. Though not many can do what Briere used to do come playoff time.
- funmaster18

Briere had the ability to make a crappy team a contender in the playoffs?

Cam Atkinson played hard again. Jake with a brutal turn over that cost his team a goal...

Cam Atkinson played hard again. Jake with a brutal turn over that cost his team a goal...
- ClaudeFather

Laine gliding around like an idiot.

Briere had the ability to make a crappy team a contender in the playoffs?
- MJL

He had the ability to elevate his game in the playoffs and it was noticeable. He was also a special player in that regard.

CC ext on the way. Make it happen Chuck. Please make it happen.

Laine gliding around like an idiot.
- MJL

He had one just as bad haha

He had the ability to elevate his game in the playoffs and it was noticeable. He was also a special player in that regard.
- funmaster18

And for a while Giroux was a PPG player in the playoffs for 65 games. Giroux was a main piece of that cup run. Surprise, they actually had a good team.

Lack of talent and coaching have been the issues. Not Giroux's leadership.




You seem to lack the understanding that a players individual play on the ice, is leadership. It is leadership and leading by example. It is far more important than any behind the scenes leadership could possibly be. As the team captain, what more could you ask for than to have a player go out for over a decade, for almost a 1000 games and be generally the teams best player or among their best players game after game after game? On generally crappy to average teams?
The issue is that many, including yourself don't know what leadership is. People hear scuttlebutt and hearsay information about Giroux's personality. About how he's not a rah-rah in your face kind of leader and place blame on him for the overall team deficiencies. Fall back on clichés, which is the best you can do to make your case. While ignoring how he has carried the team on his back in the past. The team has been dysfunctional due to lack of talent, injuries, poor coaching and poor team building. It's a shame Giroux has not had a high enough level of super powers to overcome all of that all of the time.
- MJL

His leadership hasn't been great by any means. To say otherwise is just your opinion cliff. Not a fact.

Tell us all what leadership is Cliff. Would love to hear it form an expert.

And for a while Giroux was a PPG player in the playoffs for 65 games. Giroux was a main piece of that cup run. Surprise, they actually had a good team.
- ClaudeFather

I’m a Giroux fan, for the record. Just pointing out what I’ve seen.

He had the ability to elevate his game in the playoffs and it was noticeable. He was also a special player in that regard.
- funmaster18

He certainly did and he did that playing on quality teams. However, it's not the situation or premise that I have been discussing.

He certainly did and he did that playing on quality teams. However, it's not the situation or premise that I have been discussing.
- MJL

And for a while Giroux was a PPG player in the playoffs for 65 games. Giroux was a main piece of that cup run. Surprise, they actually had a good team.
- ClaudeFather

He was the third line center during that Cup run which is probably where he is better slotted come playoff time when the games get much more physical. The only other time he dominated in the playoffs was against the Pens in that epic 2012 playoff series when the Pens played no defense and Blysma got fired. In the very next series Jersey totally shut him down and it's been pretty much that way since.

His leadership hasn't been great by any means. To say otherwise is just your opinion cliff. Not a fact.

Tell us all what leadership is Cliff. Would love to hear it form an expert.
- hello it's me 2050

And your OPINION as well. See how that works?

He was the third line center during that Cup run which is probably where he is better slotted come playoff time when the games get much more physical. The only other time he dominated in the playoffs was against the Pens in that epic 2012 playoff series when the Pens played no defense and Blysma got fired. In the very next series Jersey totally shut him down and it's been pretty much that way since.
- Phillywhiteout

So you believe that a player that has been an 80-100 point producer and a 3 time top 5 Hart trophy finalist would've been better off slotted as a 3rd liner during the playoffs?

So you believe that a player that has been an 80-100 point producer and a 3 time top 5 Hart trophy finalist would've been better off slotted as a 3rd liner during the playoffs?
- MJL

That's a good question. I honestly have trouble answering that. Let's just say if the Flyers had a deeper team in the last 10 years he'd be better slotted as the #2 center come playoff time. I mean, look at all the prototypical #1 centers that tend to dominate come playoff time and lead their teams to deep runs. They are much more physically built to withstand the rigors of the playoffs. I just think Giroux has always struggled physically as the team's #1 center come playoff time with the exception of that one series that I alluded to.

That's a good question. I honestly have trouble answering that. Let's just say if the Flyers had a deeper team in the last 10 years he'd be better slotted as the #2 center come playoff time. I mean, look at all the prototypical #1 centers that tend to dominate come playoff time and lead their teams to deep runs. They are much more physically built to withstand the rigors of the playoffs. I just think Giroux has always struggled physically as the team's #1 center come playoff time with the exception of that one series that I alluded to.
- Phillywhiteout

I don't believe that Giroux has struggled physically at any time in this league when healthy.

I don't believe that Giroux has struggled physically at any time in this league when healthy.
- MJL

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I remember just 2 years ago in the Montreal playoff series he was man handled several times. He's just not that imposing physically although I think he is quite the competitor. Sometimes the law of physics just wins out.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I remember just 2 years ago in the Montreal playoff series he was man handled several times. He's just not that imposing physically although I think he is quite the competitor. Sometimes the law of physics just wins out.
- Phillywhiteout

The laws of physics only win out in the playoffs?

I don't believe that Giroux has struggled physically at any time in this league when healthy.
- MJL

I have to disagree somewhat here. I feel like that has been his main issue in the playoffs the last few runs. Moving him to wing has helped in that area, but IMO he has trouble playing against bigger skilled players. Its a matter of physics. He tends to be neutralized and that stats bear that out. The problem is exacerbated because no one else steps up.

The laws of physics only win out in the playoffs?
- MJL

No, but he is seeing the type of player that he has trouble against for 4-7 games in a row.

The laws of physics only win out in the playoffs?
- MJL

Ummmmmmm, no. It's just the basic fact that there is more physicality on the ice and it's more contested come playoff time.

The laws of physics only win out in the playoffs?
- MJL

of course they do! Where have you been?