Just a thought, and don’t count me as some Hextall fan because I am not. He had many flaws even if I appreciate parts of his building style.

People now focus on his drafting, and the lack of success it has yielded the team today. It’s funny because I can’t for the life of me find much change in the Flyers scouting staff since his departure.

Just think about that for a bit. The current regime has made him a very convenient scapegoat, to absolve the rest of the staff of any sin or responsibility.
- FlyerFan3260

i thought chris pryor headed up the drafts?

I really hate to say it, but I agree. I think it may be a case where he is a great goalie at lower levels, but not as good at the NHL level due to shooter talent. NHL players can pick that top corner that is always open as soon as he goes into that maddening crouch whereas players at lower levels can't hit those spots as often. I really have my doubts that he will ever be an elite tender at the NHL level.
- Phillywhiteout

WIthout Hart theyre dead last and give up double digits last night

Hes sufficiently better than average

If the Flyers got Forsberg I would argue that would be as big of a splash. I honestly don't think JG would want to play for his home town team anyway. But if you look at the Flyers their need is a really to get speed and top end skill on their wings. With Couts, Hayes, Laughton and Brown down the middle I think the Flyers believe they are set.
- jd250

Outside of money why is Forsberg going to sign with Philly?

Keep an eye on the Caps for JG

Thing is, they really aren’t one or two players away. If you watch other teams in this league, and not just the Flyers one can see that pretty quickly.

Gaudreau is a very talented player, but signing him will be a mistake.

What this team needs more than anything is a few years of top 10 picks, to grow their own talented core from within. With hopefully slightly cheaper entry level contracts.

By seemingly forcing themselves into the FA, or trade route to building a team the Flyers are constantly forced to pay a premium for talent that’s often incorrectly coveted to begin with (Ristolainen).

There is a worse place to be than we are this season. At least the team is getting a high pick out of it. A worse place that will have them picking in the middle of the first round in 2023, having to claw to just make the playoffs.

People talk about it a lot, but the organizational direction is so flawed. They are so desperate to get themselves out of being a bottom team in the league they they don’t realize staying there for a few years is likely the best course of action.
- FlyerFan3260

This is spot on. The goal is a playoff team, which can be accomplished with their way of doing things

They are screwed. I think most knowledgeable hockey fans would know that, even if hope tries to mask reality.

The state I am kind of in is simply one of waiting. Waiting for change in that front office, but I have a strong fear that Fletcher retains a president role with Briere sliding up to GM.

Which really changes absolutely nothing other than temporarily placating a fanbase. It’s very clear how this team is run, and how entrenched some members in the organization are.

It’s really great, and I’ll use only a couple names as an example here… That Dean Lombardi has been able to continue collecting a paycheque with the Flyers. Or that Bob Clarke continues to have any influence on the team.
- FlyerFan3260

There is no correct change coming anytime soon. As far as Lombardi is concerned. He was the architect of the LA teams. He knows how to build a team in the cap era. So either he is capitulating or he has no influence.

i thought chris pryor headed up the drafts?
- bradster

Care to tell me where else we saw turnover?

Or Hextall, and Pryor aside is it basically all pretty much the same crew in every department?

his approach of tearing down the team, getting rid of hartsy for umberger and signing JVR, and wanting mid round picks is part of the reason why we are where we are. IF he tore it down and tried to bottom out wouldve been much better. Not even touching his spotty drafting. If we kept schenn, wouldnt have needed hayes either. The more time goes on the worse hextalls moves look. Not sure why you want to keep protecting him. Chuck and Saint Ronnie havent done much to make this team better.
- bradster

God forbid yo say both are/were not good without any caveats.

Just a thought, and don’t count me as some Hextall fan because I am not. He had many flaws even if I appreciate parts of his building style.

People now focus on his drafting, and the lack of success it has yielded the team today. It’s funny because I can’t for the life of me find much change in the Flyers scouting staff since his departure.

Just think about that for a bit. The current regime has made him a very convenient scapegoat, to absolve the rest of the staff of any sin or responsibility.

As long as most of that country club remains happy all is well.
- FlyerFan3260

The Patrick miss was obviously a killer but I won't kill him for that. He drafted a player that was a consensus top 2 pick who everybody had as a #1 center. Other than that, his drafting was solid overall in my opinion.

There is no correct change coming anytime soon. As far as Lombardi is concerned. He was the architect of the LA teams. He knows how to build a team in the cap era. So either he is capitulating or he has no influence.
- MJL

Ohhh I don’t for a second believe he has no influence. Not with it being such a great, and collaborative environment.

It’s perhaps where one day I might be able to get Bill to fill in, but I wonder where the power distribution lies in terms of influencing direction in the organization.

There are a lot of hands in this cookie jar, and frankly I don’t know why Lombardi’s performance has warranted continued employment.

Just received my Future Watch article of The Hockey News. Flyers rankings lately? In 2019 they were ranked #1. In 2020 they were ranked 8th and in 2021 they were ranked 17th. The trend continues with the latest rankings as THN now has them ranked 27th in 2022. Yikes!!

His regular season numbers are impressive and there is no denying that, but he has a serious reputation of softness come playoff time.
- Phillywhiteout

I am on the fence to add Johnny Hockey ….while I think he becomes their best offensive weapon short term he will play his first season as a 29 year old on what is sure to be a long term contract. I guess he fits the age of the veteran core of Coots, Ellis and Hayes and as a UFA your not giving assets to get him. But it’s another guy we would give an elite salary rate to that is borderline elite.

The Patrick miss was obviously a killer but I won't kill him for that. He drafted a player that was a consensus top 2 pick who everybody had as a #1 center. Other than that, his drafting was solid overall in my opinion.
- MJL

I found it quite average, and you really would hope for more than that.

Player development is a smoking gun when we see so much continued struggle when it comes to Flyer youth. That’s just as much of a problem as perceived flaws in drafting.

We need not go into Hextall too much because it was a failure with him. The idea that they could supplement the current pieces in time with young drafted kids was a gamble that didn’t pay off. It’s hard to find the required level of talent picking basically outside of the top 10 annually. They seemed to not have learned that lesson as a franchise.

I do believe he had positives about his vision, and that path was at its core a smarter one than what we see today.

Care to tell me where else we saw turnover?

Or Hextall, and Pryor aside is it basically all pretty much the same crew in every department?
- FlyerFan3260

those are the main 2 guys in charge of the draft. I have no idea about the turnover of the others

Ohhh I don’t for a second believe he has no influence. Not with it being such a great, and collaborative environment.

It’s perhaps where one day I might be able to get Bill to fill in, but I wonder where the power distribution lies in terms of influencing direction in the organization.

There are a lot of hands in this cookie jar, and frankly I don’t know why Lombardi included their performance has warranted continued employment.
- FlyerFan3260

When he was in LA before they had their success, the fans there wanted his head on a platter because he wouldn't escalate. He stuck to his guns and remained patient and made all the right moves. I don't see any sign of the Flyers emulating what he did in LA in any way. So I don't see how he has much influence unless he has changed.

his approach of tearing down the team, getting rid of hartsy for umberger and signing JVR, and wanting mid round picks is part of the reason why we are where we are. IF he tore it down and tried to bottom out wouldve been much better. Not even touching his spotty drafting. If we kept schenn, wouldnt have needed hayes either. The more time goes on the worse hextalls moves look. Not sure why you want to keep protecting him. Chuck and Saint Ronnie havent done much to make this team better.
- bradster

We get to see Hextall’s solid draft picks every night we watch the bottom feeders play. Last night we got to see what could have been. Chuck’s now had a couple of drafts, and at this point it’s to early to tell. When your this bad and in this position there’s plenty of shared blame.

I found it quite average, and you really would hope for more than that.

Player development is a smoking gun when we see so much continued struggle when it comes to Flyer youth. That’s just as much of a problem as perceived flaws in drafting.

We need not go into Hextall too much because it was a failure with him. The idea that they could supplement the current pieces in time with young drafted kids was a gamble that didn’t pay off. It’s hard to find the required level of talent picking basically outside of the top 10 annually. They seemed to not have learned that lesson as a franchise.
- FlyerFan3260

I don't see it as a failure. Hextall set the team up with a solid base of players. Two top 4 defenseman, two top 6 wingers. A #1 goalie and I believe drafted 11 NHL players overall in 5 drafts. With the potential for a few more even still. He didn't add that elite player though.

No excuse needed. Did you watch the game?

Two shots on goal: One of them was a point blank save by Francouz. He also distributed to Tippett, Willman or Hodgson for 3-4 scoring chances.

Minus-one: A Makar goal off a faceoff. Frost had zero to do with the play.

Frost and Tippett have shown hints of chemistry and Frost has been playing strong two-way games all week at center (last night was just OK in terms of overall details).
- bmeltzer

Yea, we can't expect 255 points like Legion of Doom did one season.

When he was in LA before they had their success, the fans there wanted his head on a platter because he wouldn't escalate. He stuck to his guns and remained patient and made all the right moves. I don't see any sign of the Flyers emulating what he did in LA in any way. So I don't see how he has much influence unless he has changed.
- MJL

Lombardi is just a name I selected to illustrate a point, he isn’t one to focus on.

I just don’t for a second believe that Fletcher/Flahr run this thing as generals do so to speak. This is a war room with many other flawed minds that I cannot believe simply survived Hextall’s firing to continue to poorly perform.

This goes very much beyond Fletcher.

We get to see Hextall’s solid draft picks every night we watch the bottom feeders play. Last night we got to see what could have been. Chuck’s now had a couple of drafts, and at this point it’s to early to tell. When your this bad and in this position there’s plenty of shared blame.
- landros 2

oh for sure, right now we can bash chucks moves, but in another few years we can bash his drafting if they dont turn out. Its a little early at this point

Just received my Future Watch article of The Hockey News. Flyers rankings lately? In 2019 they were ranked #1. In 2020 they were ranked 8th and in 2021 they were ranked 17th. The trend continues with the latest rankings as THN now has them ranked 27th in 2022. Yikes!!
- Phillywhiteout

Be careful putting to much stock in those things…if our #1 ranking was only three years ago you would think we’d be a tad bit more competitive today, no?

I don't see it as a failure. Hextall set the team up with a solid base of players. Two top 4 defenseman, two top 6 wingers. A #1 goalie and I believe 11 NHL players overall in 5 drafts. With the potential for a few more even still. He didn't add that elite player though.
- MJL

It’s your last point that hits home. It’s the most crucial part of a rebuild. The Flyers continue to try and build a team by building its periphery first then hoping they somehow luck into some elite level talent.

That’s not how it works, especially for a team that struggles in player development.

They didn’t find their Pastrnak or Point. The odds are simply higher when one commits to drafting high for multiple seasons.

They continue to show they haven’t learned this lesson.

Lombardi is just a name I selected to illustrate a point, he isn’t one to focus on.

I just don’t for a second believe that Fletcher/Flahr run this thing as generals do to speak. This is a war room with many other flawed minds that I cannot believe simply survived Hextall’s firing to continue to poorly perform.

This goes very much beyond Fletcher.
- FlyerFan3260

No, I agree with your main point 100%. The reason why they like Fletcher is willingness to include many voices. It's as if the powers to be care more about having I say then they do about winning. I do believe they want to win. They just don't know how and believe that they're approach is the right one. They still hold on the fantasy view that the Flyers culture is the right way and are stuck in the past.

oh for sure, right now we can bash chucks moves, but in another few years we can bash his drafting if they dont turn out. Its a little early at this point
- bradster

Drafts and sometimes trades take time to really see if they were successful. We have a good idea now of what kind of job Hextall did. The early returns on Fletcher are not promising but I guess we’ll see what his draft picks bring in the coming years.

I don't see it as a failure. Hextall set the team up with a solid base of players. Two top 4 defenseman, two top 6 wingers. A #1 goalie and I believe drafted 11 NHL players overall in 5 drafts. With the potential for a few more even still. He didn't add that elite player though.
- MJL

to me, drafting an nhl player doesnt mean anything. you can sign an nhl player for under $1M. So drafting a bottom pair guy doesnt move the needle at all. But i get you are trying to promote his drafting ability to fit your narrative. It just doesnt fly with me . Id rather sign a guy for $1M than draft an nhl player and wait 4 years to learn he is a bottom pairing guy. OR even better, package that pick you used to get him to move up in the draft.

It’s your last point that hits home. It’s the most crucial part of a rebuild. The Flyers continue to try and build a team by building its periphery first then hoping they somehow luck into some elite level talent.

That’s not how it works, especially for a team that struggles in player development.

They didn’t find their Pastrnak or Point. The odds are simply higher when one commits to drafting high for multiple seasons.

They continue to show they haven’t learned this lesson.
- FlyerFan3260

They had a couple of chances with Hextall with the 2nd overall and Provorov was 8th I believe. I still think that Provorov is a much better player than he has shown the last few year. I see him as a victim of the incompetency rather than a cause.