Just received my Future Watch article of The Hockey News. Flyers rankings lately? In 2019 they were ranked #1. In 2020 they were ranked 8th and in 2021 they were ranked 17th. The trend continues with the latest rankings as THN now has them ranked 27th in 2022. Yikes!!
- Phillywhiteout

does it have players ranked on the team? Love to see what they think of our 1st round pick obrien. Rumor has it he is going back to school next year. 22 yrs old, not quite pro ready yet i guess

No, I agree with your main point 100%. The reason why they like Fletcher is willingness to include many voices. It's as if the powers to be care more about having I say then they do about winning. I do believe they want to win. They just don't know how and believe that they're approach is the right one. They still hold on the fantasy view that the Flyers culture is the right way and are stuck in the past.
- MJL

It’s funny isn’t it, that those older Bully teams that built this franchise. It’s the men from that culture that are damaging the product today.

Snider isn’t innocent in this, he basically created this idea of a family with members being able to find jobs beyond playing on the ice. I do wonder what it would be like if he was alive today. I have no doubt Fletcher would be gone, but would all the other staff finally be forced into accountability?

Somehow I doubt it.

They had a couple of chances with Hextall with the 2nd overall and Provorov was 8th I believe. I still think that Provorov is a much better player than he has shown the last few year. I see him as a victim of the incompetency rather than a cause.
- MJL

someone mentioned he has 1 even strength primary assist the last 2 years. That is concerning. Regardless how imcompetent the team around him is. For a top line D, that is not good at all.

I did watch Mr. Frost closely.
He is taken off puck super easy.
He shows no drive or passion just kinda go through motions.
If he skated with even a remote bit of urgency would be great.

I called this kid a long time ago.
He is at best an AHL first liner and bottom six guy.
Frost needs to learn how to play like Laughton did when he was on his way to bustville.

It’s funny isn’t it, that those older Bully teams that built this franchise. It’s the men from that culture that are damaging the product today.

Snider isn’t innocent in this, he basically created this idea of a family with members being able to find jobs beyond playing on the ice. I do wonder what it would be like if he was alive today. I have no doubt Fletcher would be gone, but would all the other staff finally be forced into accountability?

Somehow I doubt it.
- FlyerFan3260

Sniders method worked until the cap era pretty well. They've never adapted as a franchise. Hextall failed in one major way. He didn't have success quick enough to sway the overall organizational philosophy long term.

does it have players ranked on the team? Love to see what they think of our 1st round pick obrien. Rumor has it he is going back to school next year. 22 yrs old, not quite pro ready yet i guess
- bradster

Yes, it has the top 10 ranked in each organization. O'Brien isn't listed in the top 10 on the Flyers. York in #1 (33rd overall of the top 100 prospects).

They had a couple of chances with Hextall with the 2nd overall and Provorov was 8th I believe. I still think that Provorov is a much better player than he has shown the last few year. I see him as a victim of the incompetency rather than a cause.
- MJL

Patrick really did hurt them, that pick basically giving them nothing is probably one of the biggest influencing factors for where we are today.

Provorov, much like some of the other Flyers young players has stagnated in his development. First in the league you saw a player who would join into the transition a lot more, just as an example.

I have no doubt he would improve elsewhere but I would entertain a trade. I have strong doubts about who the Flyers would target but that’s another issue.

Why he remained such a fixture on PP1 for so long I’ll never understand. I kind of think they ruined him, in a variety of ways. Or better yet, didn’t really support him into becoming a better player.

Why he remained such a fixture on PP1 for so long I’ll never understand. I kind of think they ruined him, in a variety of ways. Or better yet, didn’t really support him into becoming a better player.
- FlyerFan3260

There is absolutely no question about that in my mind. The organizational failures are what led to them having to use him as the team's top defenseman since he was 19. The weight of that with the slide of the team has taken a toll on Provorov.

Patrick really did hurt them, that pick basically giving them nothing is probably one of the biggest influencing factors for where we are today.

Provorov, much like some of the other Flyers young players has stagnated in his development. First in the league you saw a player who would join into the transition a lot more, just as an example.

I have no doubt he would improve elsewhere but I would entertain a trade. I have strong doubts about who the Flyers would target but that’s another issue.

Why he remained such a fixture on PP1 for so long I’ll never understand. I kind of think they ruined him, in a variety of ways. Or better yet, didn’t really support him into becoming a better player.
- FlyerFan3260

Provorov is a total enigma. I really thought that he would challenge for the Norris someday. And I'm not just saying that as a Flyers fan. I really thought he portrayed the kind of complete game that would allow him to do it. I'm completely baffled as to what happened to this guy and for the first time I'm really wondering if he needs a change of scenery.

Sniders method worked until the cap era pretty well. They've never adapted as a franchise. Hextall failed in one major way. He didn't have success quick enough to sway the overall organizational philosophy long term.
- MJL

I more so was alluding to the loyalty the franchise shows the vast majority of its members in the hockey operations side of things.

Do agree very much so with your point though. It was the chance at a very important philosophical shift, that they abandoned.

It’s just unfortunate seeing other teams realize what building a team in the modern NHL means. Montreal is a striking recent example, with what they are currently doing.

Yzerman hasn’t tried to force Detroit into a position by accelerating their rebuild, as another easy comparison.

I more so was alluding to the loyalty the franchise shows the vast majority of its members in the hockey operations side of things.

Do agree very much so with your point though. It was the chance at a very important philosophical shift, that they abandoned.

It’s just unfortunate seeing other teams realize what building a team in the modern NHL means. Montreal is a striking recent example, with what they are currently doing.

Yzerman hasn’t tried to force Detroit into a position by accelerating their rebuild, as another easy comparison.
- FlyerFan3260

It's all staring them in the face. If you're a GM and your team is struggling. What do you do. In any endeavor or business. You look at those who are having consistent success and learn from that. The Flyers don't do that. What it tells me is that the old guard is still in place. The internal influences are too strong. Unfortunately, the team's GM is one of them. More concerned with fitting in than with change.

I think there is a thought that the fanbase wouldn’t support a few down years. That things are so on edge that everything must be done to get themselves out of the basement.

It’s just a flawed stance from ownership. Does any sane person believe people wouldn’t be more willing to support a young up and coming team infused with dynamic youngsters?

I’d be so much more intrigued watching that, watching the team weaponize it’s financial power to accumulate assets, and build itself into a true powerhouse.

Instead of watching Kevin Hayes, and Nazem Kadri try to carry a squad toward a first round loss.

Dave Scott, is the biggest issue here because this belief that they must immediately move toward contention comes from him.

I think there is a thought that the fanbase wouldn’t support a few down years. That things are so on edge that everything must be done to get themselves out of the basement.

It’s just a flawed stance from ownership. Does any sane person believe people wouldn’t be more willing to support a young up and coming team infused with dynamic youngsters?

I’d be so much more intrigued watching that, watching the team weaponize it’s financial power to accumulate assets, and build itself into a true powerhouse.

Instead of watching Kevin Hayes, and Nazem Kadri try to carry a squad toward a first round loss.

Dave Scott, is the biggest issue here because this belief that they must immediately move toward contention comes from him.
- FlyerFan3260

How did Dave Scott, with no hockey background form that belief?

I don't see it as a failure. Hextall set the team up with a solid base of players. Two top 4 defenseman, two top 6 wingers. A #1 goalie and I believe drafted 11 NHL players overall in 5 drafts. With the potential for a few more even still. He didn't add that elite player though.
- MJL

Sad you still defend the Saint. None of those players are elite. None are game changers. None raise the level of play of other players. The are all average players ti maybe slightly above average. Pretty much every NHL team has those type of players.

What about all the missed picks that have set the team back?

He added all of that yet here we are stuck in losing cycle. That the current GM continues.

How did Dave Scott, with no hockey background form that belief?
- MJL

Haha.

Shocking that the quickest way to maximize profits probably leads him there. Make them better asap, to get asses in the seats.

I do think similar to what you alluded to before, that there was a chance at doing things differently. It was just too easy for the old guard to hammer the point home that their way was better after Hextall’s strategy started to raise question marks.

Drafts and sometimes trades take time to really see if they were successful. We have a good idea now of what kind of job Hextall did. The early returns on Fletcher are not promising but I guess we’ll see what his draft picks bring in the coming years.
- landros 2

Only 1 player from Fetchers drafts in the NHL at this time. It is very early to draw conclusions. Seems a tad odd without doing any research how many picks from those drafts in the NHL or at least a cup of coffee.

Haha.

Shocking that the quickest way to maximize profits probably leads him there. Make them better asap, to get asses in the seats.

I do think similar to what you alluded to before, that there was a chance at doing things differently. It was just too easy for the old guard to hammer the point home that their way was better after Hextall’s strategy started to raise question marks.
- FlyerFan3260

There is no question in my mind how Scott formed that belief. Holmgren, Clarke etc.

They had a couple of chances with Hextall with the 2nd overall and Provorov was 8th I believe. I still think that Provorov is a much better player than he has shown the last few year. I see him as a victim of the incompetency rather than a cause.
- MJL

A victim of the Saints incompetence.

Sniders method worked until the cap era pretty well. They've never adapted as a franchise. Hextall failed in one major way. He didn't have success quick enough to sway the overall organizational philosophy long term.
- MJL

Failed in one way. GTFO. He was in complete control. He owned it. He failed on many levels.

How would you categorize the Saints development approach? Keeping a guy as your AHL head coach who only wanted to get back to the NHL in charge of your prospects. How has that worked so far Cliff?

Ivan Provorov has only ONE even strength primary assist over the past two seasons.

This is our "#1 defender" who plays upwards of 30 mins on some nights. In over 2200 mins of even strength play, only a single lonely primary assist.

And we wonder why this team struggles to get up the ice and score goals. And we wonder why Provorov is helpless without a Niskanen.
- Tomahawk

If this is true and I have no reason to doubt you, it is absolutely astoundingly bad.

To say Provorov has been underwhelming would be an understatement.

Patrick really did hurt them, that pick basically giving them nothing is probably one of the biggest influencing factors for where we are today.

Provorov, much like some of the other Flyers young players has stagnated in his development. First in the league you saw a player who would join into the transition a lot more, just as an example.

I have no doubt he would improve elsewhere but I would entertain a trade. I have strong doubts about who the Flyers would target but that’s another issue.

Why he remained such a fixture on PP1 for so long I’ll never understand. I kind of think they ruined him, in a variety of ways. Or better yet, didn’t really support him into becoming a better player.
- FlyerFan3260

funny to say, but if we didnt win the lottery, we wouldve been better off

Thing is, they really aren’t one or two players away. If you watch other teams in this league, and not just the Flyers one can see that pretty quickly.

Gaudreau is a very talented player, but signing him will be a mistake.

What this team needs more than anything is a few years of top 10 picks, to grow their own talented core from within. With hopefully slightly cheaper entry level contracts.

By seemingly forcing themselves into the FA, or trade route to building a team the Flyers are constantly forced to pay a premium for talent that’s often incorrectly coveted to begin with (Ristolainen).

There is a worse place to be than we are this season. At least the team is getting a high pick out of it. A worse place that will have them picking in the middle of the first round in 2023, having to claw to just make the playoffs.

People talk about it a lot, but the organizational direction is so flawed. They are so desperate to get themselves out of being a bottom team in the league they they don’t realize staying there for a few years is likely the best course of action.
- FlyerFan3260

If they get a draft pick in the 4-7 range which is the most likely what does that guarantee them? Answer. Not a (frank)ing thing.

I more so was alluding to the loyalty the franchise shows the vast majority of its members in the hockey operations side of things.

Do agree very much so with your point though. It was the chance at a very important philosophical shift, that they abandoned.

It’s just unfortunate seeing other teams realize what building a team in the modern NHL means. Montreal is a striking recent example, with what they are currently doing.

Yzerman hasn’t tried to force Detroit into a position by accelerating their rebuild, as another easy comparison.
- FlyerFan3260

detroit pretty much bottomed out, that does help a rebuild immensely

It’s funny isn’t it, that those older Bully teams that built this franchise. It’s the men from that culture that are damaging the product today.

Snider isn’t innocent in this, he basically created this idea of a family with members being able to find jobs beyond playing on the ice. I do wonder what it would be like if he was alive today. I have no doubt Fletcher would be gone, but would all the other staff finally be forced into accountability?

Somehow I doubt it.
- FlyerFan3260

I don't disagree with this sort of analysis, but what I find surprising is how it stops at taking the next step. That country club is a part of a large publicly listed company which cares deeply about its bottom line, as it has to.

The country club boys are not masters of their own paths. Yet the company who hires them allows the country club to operate as it does. It might even be accurate that it encourages it.

Take that extra step of reasoning,and you realize that the country club boys are merely useful idiots. And the driver of the engine is the overly loyal and impatient, short sighted fan base.

funny to say, but if we didnt win the lottery, we wouldve been better off
- bradster

looking at the flyers roster at the time, the pick should have been traded. Could have acquired help in the here and now, as well as the future.