Failed in one way. GTFO. He was in complete control. He owned it. He failed on many levels.

How would you categorize the Saints development approach? Keeping a guy as your AHL head coach who only wanted to get back to the NHL in charge of your prospects. How has that worked so far Cliff?
- hello it's me 2050

i will never understand the idolizing of saint ronnie. Makes no sense.

i will never understand the idolizing of saint ronnie. Makes no sense.
- bradster

did some good, overall he failed.

I don't disagree with this sort of analysis, but what I find surprising is how it stops at taking the next step. That country club is a part of a large publicly listed company which cares deeply about its bottom line, as it has to.

The country club boys are not masters of their own paths. Yet the company who hires them allows the country club to operate as it does. It might even be accurate that it encourages it.

Take that extra step of reasoning,and you realize that the country club boys are merely useful idiots. And the driver of the engine is the overly loyal and impatient, short sighted fan base.
- PT21

We’re getting what we want?

If they get a draft pick in the 4-7 range which is the most likely what does that guarantee them? Answer. Not a (frank)ing thing.
- PLindbergh31

Doesn’t guarantee anything.

Picking there for a few years, is the key. Great teams aren’t usually built by having one down year to draft a top player. It takes multiple seasons of doing that to get enough talent.

No it’s not a definite thing, your organization still needs to be proficient in developing, and surrounding that talented core with the proper pieces.

It’s just about bettering the odds, nothing more. I have very little doubt in my mind that were they to miss on Gaudreau they will very willingly overpay for Kadri. Bringing bsck a fan favorite in Giroux, and a few years of gathering higher end talent from the draft would be a better option.

Instead of further saddling themselves with a contract to a player likely to not live up to it.

No excuse needed. Did you watch the game?

Two shots on goal: One of them was a point blank save by Francouz. He also distributed to Tippett, Willman or Hodgson for 3-4 scoring chances.

Minus-one: A Makar goal off a faceoff. Frost had zero to do with the play.

Frost and Tippett have shown hints of chemistry and Frost has been playing strong two-way games all week at center (last night was just OK in terms of overall details).
- bmeltzer

I have always been a Frost fan and said he needs 20-ish games to play his game without being put in the doghouse. A lot of how the flyers have developed him (including yo-yo-ing between leagues) has to be unwound, which, unfortunately is going to take time.

Doesn’t guarantee anything.

Picking there for a few years, is the key. Great teams aren’t usually built by having one down year to draft a top player. It takes multiple seasons of doing that to get enough talent.

No it’s not a definite thing, your organization still needs to be proficient in developing, and surrounding that talented core with the proper pieces.

It’s just about bettering the odds, nothing more. I have very little doubt in my mind that were they to miss on Gaudreau they will very willingly overpay for Kadri. Bringing bsck a fan favorite in Giroux, and a few years of gathering higher end talent from the draft would be a better option.

Instead of further saddling themselves with a contract to a player likely to not live up to it.
- FlyerFan3260

❤️❤️❤️ 👍

I don't disagree with this sort of analysis, but what I find surprising is how it stops at taking the next step. That country club is a part of a large publicly listed company which cares deeply about its bottom line, as it has to.

The country club boys are not masters of their own paths. Yet the company who hires them allows the country club to operate as it does. It might even be accurate that it encourages it.

Take that extra step of reasoning,and you realize that the country club boys are merely useful idiots. And the driver of the engine is the overly loyal and impatient, short sighted fan base.
- PT21

I don’t think the fanbase is to blame. I mean, I’m sure there are elements that are vocal about moving out of the gutter ASAP.

I’m sure those voices were there with the NYR, Colorado, Detroit, and currently Montreal.

I think the majority of the knowledgeable fanbase knows what needs to be done, but the Flyers kind of give a vibe that they are really more after attracting the casual fan with shiny lights, and loud sounds.

Doesn’t guarantee anything.

Picking there for a few years, is the key. Great teams aren’t usually built by having one down year to draft a top player. It takes multiple seasons of doing that to get enough talent.

No it’s not a definite thing, your organization still needs to be proficient in developing, and surrounding that talented core with the proper pieces.

It’s just about bettering the odds, nothing more. I have very little doubt in my mind that were they to miss on Gaudreau they will very willingly overpay for Kadri. Bringing bsck a fan favorite in Giroux, and a few years of gathering higher end talent from the draft would be a better option.

Instead of further saddling themselves with a contract to a player likely to not live up to it.
- FlyerFan3260

Obviously high draft picks are important, but the key is to identify what works in todays NHL and have every player embrace that. Specifically, guys with speed, vision and a semblance of skill (yes even 4th liners). These 200-ft, goon-ish and large dinosaurs don't work anymore. However, that is the organizational philosophy. The Flyers love their grease and grit. And why shouldn't they, afterall they won 2 Stanley Cups with it (2 millenniums ago)

i will never understand the idolizing of saint ronnie. Makes no sense.
- bradster

Hextall had a process and a plan. The process had some flaws but for the most part the failure came either in the guys they drafted or the development of those guys. I think most of us hoped we’d at least see the results of Hextall’s inaction in many years of his reign by now….but when you struggle to bring in good/elite young talent (or enough of it)to replace the core eventually you end up we’re we are today.

I have always been a Frost fan and said he needs 20-ish games to play his game without being put in the doghouse. A lot of how the flyers have developed him (including yo-yo-ing between leagues) has to be unwound, which, unfortunately is going to take time.
- mr4tno

Exactly….he just needs to play in an offensive role for the rest of the season and get some confidence. I still think he’s going to be a point producer.

Exactly….he just needs to play in an offensive role for the rest of the season and get some confidence. I still think he’s going to be a point producer.
- landros 2

We’ve been complaining all season to give the kid a chance. A real chance a real look and the opportunity to gain experience. He’s going to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. With experience maybe the end product of guys like Frost, Tippett, York, Hodgson and a couple others allows us to look forward to the off season and the next one and beyond. Frost has talent and speed but sometimes he looks so timid and unsure. Fingers crossed over the next 18 games!

i will never understand the idolizing of saint ronnie. Makes no sense.
- bradster

You don’t understand building through the draft and getting as far under the cap as possible?

Hextall had a process and a plan. The process had some flaws but for the most part the failure came either in the guys they drafted or the development of those guys. I think most of us hoped we’d at least see the results of Hextall’s inaction in many years of his reign by now….but when you struggle to bring in good/elite young talent (or enough of it)to replace the core eventually you end up we’re we are today.
- landros 2

The only flaw that I saw was taking too long to making his dream a reality. He was here 5 years, drafted a lot of good young players but didn’t put enough stock on the ice so we can watch a watchable product. I could careless about the Nolan Patrick pick. Patrick was going number 1 or 2 that season regardless of what we found out in hindsight. I would have also would have liked to have seen Hextall make his point.

We’re getting what we want?
- Dkos

I don’t think the fanbase is to blame. I mean, I’m sure there are elements that are vocal about moving out of the gutter ASAP.

I’m sure those voices were there with the NYR, Colorado, Detroit, and currently Montreal.

I think the majority of the knowledgeable fanbase knows what needs to be done, but the Flyers kind of give a vibe that they are really more after attracting the casual fan with shiny lights, and loud sounds.
- FlyerFan3260

By fanbase, I mean the customer base. Which has as a significant $ spending component peeps who are attracted to gimmicks and the passionate fans who are too impatient for a full rebuild.

The two have the combined economic effect of perpetuating the country club.

Would be funny if a Chuck ends up going after Logan Cooley (assuming we don’t win the draft lotto). He’s a Pittsburgh kid.

I mean Hart is a pretty average starting goaltender if we’re being completely honest with ourselves.
- hereticpride

I disagree. He just happens to play on one of the worst teams in the league for his entire career

someone mentioned he has 1 even strength primary assist the last 2 years. That is concerning. Regardless how imcompetent the team around him is. For a top line D, that is not good at all.
- bradster

How often does a Dman get a primary assist? Especially for a team like the Flyers who generate the most offense off the rush. I think its being blown out of proportion. There's nothing inherently "better" about a primary assist - they can be every bit as ugly and cheap as any secondary helper.

Most Dmen rely on the PP for points. Ones without PP time tend to not generate much. I know Provorov does get PP time at times but the entire unit has been trash. I think you are going to find it rre that a Dman get a primary assist passing the puck up from his end. The forward receiving the pass will most likely move the puck to another player or dump it in. Another would be tip in from point shots which isnt really something we get many of either.

The only flaw that I saw was taking too long to making his dream a reality. He was here 5 years, drafted a lot of good young players but didn’t put enough stock on the ice so we can watch a watchable product. I could careless about the Nolan Patrick pick. Patrick was going number 1 or 2 that season regardless of what we found out in hindsight. I would have also would have liked to have seen Hextall make his point.
- SuperSchennBros

Injuries didnt help but at the same time the injury history was known. It was a big reason he dropped. Consensus #2 guy but there were still signs to be worried about, it is likely why the scouts recommended passing him for Heiskanen. Thing that gets me is, Scouts spend their days watching these guys. As a GM why wouldnt you trust them? As a GM I cant imagine he spent much time watching these guys play.

Did he has a reason to choose Patrick? Sure. At the end of the day though he picked Patrick and it didnt work out so regardless of whether he had a reason to pick the guy he still made a bad pick, he is still at fault.

Would be funny if a Chuck ends up going after Logan Cooley (assuming we don’t win the draft lotto). He’s a Pittsburgh kid.
- hereticpride

and then he holds out after a few seasons and demands a trade to pittsburgh

How often does a Dman get a primary assist? Especially for a team like the Flyers who generate the most offense off the rush. I think its being blown out of proportion. There's nothing inherently "better" about a primary assist - they can be every bit as ugly and cheap as any secondary helper.

Most Dmen rely on the PP for points. Ones without PP time tend to not generate much. I know Provorov does get PP time at times but the entire unit has been trash. I think you are going to find it rre that a Dman get a primary assist passing the puck up from his end. The forward receiving the pass will most likely move the puck to another player or dump it in. Another would be tip in from point shots which isnt really something we get many of either.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Most most top scoring defenseman, which are the ones who play on the PP, have more ES point than they do PP points. So it's not accurate that most defenseman rely on the PP for points.
A primary assist is generally the assist that makes the play and creates the opportunity for the goal scorer. That's not to say that the secondary isn't also important.
The stat of Provorov having one primary assist in two years is alarming. Although not just an indictment of Provorov. To me it's indicative of a combination of things.

Injuries didnt help but at the same time the injury history was known. It was a big reason he dropped. Consensus #2 guy but there were still signs to be worried about, it is likely why the scouts recommended passing him for Heiskanen. Thing that gets me is, Scouts spend their days watching these guys. As a GM why wouldnt you trust them? As a GM I cant imagine he spent much time watching these guys play.

Did he has a reason to choose Patrick? Sure. At the end of the day though he picked Patrick and it didnt work out so regardless of whether he had a reason to pick the guy he still made a bad pick, he is still at fault.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

There was no injury issue at the time that had an effect on Patrick's pre draft rating. He was a consensus top two and everybody considered him to be a future #1 NHL center.
A GM's job is not to listen to what the scouts say and just take their recommendation. The GM's job is to take in all the info and then make his decision.

Injuries didnt help but at the same time the injury history was known. It was a big reason he dropped. Consensus #2 guy but there were still signs to be worried about, it is likely why the scouts recommended passing him for Heiskanen. Thing that gets me is, Scouts spend their days watching these guys. As a GM why wouldnt you trust them? As a GM I cant imagine he spent much time watching these guys play.

Did he has a reason to choose Patrick? Sure. At the end of the day though he picked Patrick and it didnt work out so regardless of whether he had a reason to pick the guy he still made a bad pick, he is still at fault.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Patrick had an injury history in JR. The Flyers either deemed them as bad luck or not something they should be concerned about going forward….his draft year he only played 33 games…and his out put was average. Most felt his groin tear had really limited his effectiveness but it’s something that could be fixed. That was his third full year of jr hockey. His rookie year he had also missed time due to injuries….he really had an amazing 2nd year where by he was the best 17 year old on the planet….he played a full season and remained healthy.
In the end the Flyers new of the issues regarding Patrick, hell he played his Jr in Hextall’s home town. They decided to draft him over some other guys, which in hind sight was clearly the wrong choice. It’s a choice that has put this organization back a few years…it was a horrible miss on what was a gift of a 2nd over all pick…..but it is what it is.

Outside of money why is Forsberg going to sign with Philly?

Keep an eye on the Caps for JG
- hello it's me 2050

I heard on 550 the fan that he...

If this is true and I have no reason to doubt you, it is absolutely astoundingly bad.

To say Provorov has been underwhelming would be an understatement.
- PLindbergh31

It blew my mind when I read it last night. I looked it up for myself.... he had ZERO ES primary apples last season in over 1000 minutes. Just ONE this season in 1150 mins.

Like how does that even happen??? You think he'd pick up a few here and there just by accident, in that many minutes.

http://www.naturalstattri...type=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=p

Sanheim has more primary apples this season (9) than Provy's had over the past FOUR SEASONS (8), lol.

I don't believe it's an issue of talent w/ Provy. I think he's just shell shocked and has gotten into the habit of playing super conservatively. Having to shoulder the load has broken him.

Trade him in the off season? I would.
- jd250

It would be a start.