I don't believe it's an issue of talent w/ Provy. I think he's just shell shocked and has gotten into the habit of playing super conservatively. Having to shoulder the load has broken him.
- Tomahawk

I've believed this for a while.

I disagree. He just happens to play on one of the worst teams in the league for his entire career
- Angus4444

That's not an excuse. The Rangers are close to as bad as the Flyers at limiting scoring chances and Shesterkin is an MVP candidate.

Hellebyuck was bananas in 19-21 when Winnipeg was giving up chances left and right.

Great goaltending isn't team dependent.

Hart is average or a little bit above average at his best. Like Steve Mason quality. And last season... still don't know wtf that was.

I like the kid, I want to see him become something special, but we really haven't seen too much of that yet.

That's not an excuse. The Rangers are close to as bad as the Flyers at limiting scoring chances and Shesterkin is an MVP candidate.

Hellebyuck was bananas in 19-21 when Winnipeg was giving up chances left and right.

Great goaltending isn't team dependent.

Hart is average or a little bit above average at his best. Like Steve Mason quality. And last season... still don't know wtf that was.

I like the kid, I want to see him become something special, but we really haven't seen too much of that yet.
- Tomahawk

Shesterkin hasn't been playing in that situation for what, going on 3 seasons now? His situation is no different than Provorov's in my opinion. Those individual seasons are not sustainable year after year in that environment.

Shesterkin hasn't been playing in that situation for what, going on 3 seasons now? His situation is no different than Provorov's in my opinion. Those individual seasons are not sustainable year after year in that environment.
- MJL

Goaltending is a bit of a different beast tho. The busier, more under seige they are, the high their sv% tends to go.

It's probably harder to play behind a really great defensive team and only see a few shots per period.

Goaltending is a bit of a different beast tho. The busier, more under seige they are, the high their sv% tends to go.

It's probably harder to play behind a really great defensive team and only see a few shots per period.
- Tomahawk

Statistical averages don't always paint the story. The Flyers not only give up a ton of chances and shots but also quality. Having to play your ass off every single game for multiple seasons just to have your team have a chance, takes a toll on a player. I don't believe your last statement is true at all. Even the best of teams in puck possession and team defense give their goaltender plenty of work.

Goaltending is a bit of a different beast tho. The busier, more under seige they are, the high their sv% tends to go.

It's probably harder to play behind a really great defensive team and only see a few shots per period.
- Tomahawk

I think GSAA is a much better metric than Save%. It’s comparable to WAR in baseball. Save % doesn’t differentiate between a point blank shot and a shot from center ice. Shesterkin is #1 in GSAA with a value of 55.48 and Hart is 18th at 19.27. That puts Hart in the middle of the pack.

No excuse needed. Did you watch the game?

Two shots on goal: One of them was a point blank save by Francouz. He also distributed to Tippett, Willman or Hodgson for 3-4 scoring chances.

Minus-one: A Makar goal off a faceoff. Frost had zero to do with the play.

Frost and Tippett have shown hints of chemistry and Frost has been playing strong two-way games all week at center (last night was just OK in terms of overall details).
-Bill Meltzer

Yes Bill, I did watch the game and I know you did also. Look no further than what you have to do to defend Frost? You know the old trick when one friend attempts to set up his friend with a less than attractive girl? You know, he says "You'll like her, she is really fun to be it, full of life!" That is what you are doing in trying to defend Frost here. I watch a player that plays the game slow, constantly behind the play, consistently losing puck battles and as you say just OK with the details, like winning a faceoff for example. That is what me eyes see Bill, but my eyes also see players like Hodgson, who really has no future as a NHL regular, or a marginal NHL player like Willman making much more of impact than Frost has ever had this entire season! Heck, even MacEwen scored a nice goal last night, driving the net and making a nice move.

When have we once seen Frost even do what MacEwen did last night? Sorry, like I said I've seen enough of this kid to know he doesn't have the goods and if I were Fletcher he would be traded in the off season.

I mean Hart is a pretty average starting goaltender if we’re being completely honest with ourselves.
- hereticpride

45 saves last night against one of the best hockey teams in the league, a little better than average don't you think? Most goalies win games when they make 45 saves, just no goalie the Flyers get to see ..

There was no injury issue at the time that had an effect on Patrick's pre draft rating. He was a consensus top two and everybody considered him to be a future #1 NHL center.
A GM's job is not to listen to what the scouts say and just take their recommendation. The GM's job is to take in all the info and then make his decision.
- MJL

Oh Contraire! Patrick had a core injury his draft year and recall Hextall after drafting him mentioning he thoroughly examined all the information about the injury and was not concerned at the time.

Drafts and sometimes trades take time to really see if they were successful. We have a good idea now of what kind of job Hextall did. The early returns on Fletcher are not promising but I guess we’ll see what his draft picks bring in the coming years.
- landros 2

Really? I think this is very promising so far.

2020 Entry
Tyson Foerster
Emil Andrae
Zayde Wisdom
Elliot Desnoyers
Connor McClennon

2019 Entry
Cam York
Bobby Brink
Ronnie Attard
Mason Millman
Egor Serdyuk
Roddy Ross
Bryce Brodzinski

Really? I think this is very promising so far.

2020 Entry
Tyson Foerster
Emil Andrae
Zayde Wisdom
Elliot Desnoyers
Connor McClennon

2019 Entry
Cam York
Bobby Brink
Ronnie Attard
Mason Millman
Egor Serdyuk
Roddy Ross
Bryce Brodzinski
- jd250

Fella….they are a bottom feeder….you want me to consider that promising ?

I’ve already eaten at the buffet of promising prospects….and it hasn’t worked all that well.

Oh Contraire! Patrick had a core injury his draft year and recall Hextall after drafting him mentioning he thoroughly examined all the information about the injury and was not concerned at the time.
- jd250

He only played 33 games in his draft year? Was he on an extended vacation? Of course he was injured.

It blew my mind when I read it last night. I looked it up for myself.... he had ZERO ES primary apples last season in over 1000 minutes. Just ONE this season in 1150 mins.

Like how does that even happen??? You think he'd pick up a few here and there just by accident, in that many minutes.

http://www.naturalstattri...type=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=p

Sanheim has more primary apples this season (9) than Provy's had over the past FOUR SEASONS (8), lol.

I don't believe it's an issue of talent w/ Provy. I think he's just shell shocked and has gotten into the habit of playing super conservatively. Having to shoulder the load has broken him.
- Tomahawk

He has to learn to deal with it then. Adversity happens. He is in the big leagues, He has to figure it out.

Life isnt easy, sometimes life flips you the middle finger. It is up to him to respond. He either has what it takes or he doesnt. Flyers need him to step up. If he cant handle the challenge of anchoring the top D pair, Flyers need to find someone who can.

He can sit there and sulk because he doesnt have a partner to carry him or he can step up and learn to elevate his partner.

Hextall had a process and a plan. The process had some flaws but for the most part the failure came either in the guys they drafted or the development of those guys. I think most of us hoped we’d at least see the results of Hextall’s inaction in many years of his reign by now….but when you struggle to bring in good/elite young talent (or enough of it)to replace the core eventually you end up we’re we are today.
- landros 2

His plan didnt make any sense to me. Fix the cap issues. ok, trade hartnell to do that. OK. Sign JAke and JVR......makes no sense. If you wanted to get rid of guys like schenn and hartnell, then clean house and bottom out. He wanted to get rid of guys but also stay competitive.......and here we are. I wouldve preferred if you trade schenn for guys that will help 4-5 years down the road. Do a proper rebuild and get high picks.......and he needed to draft better, the german, obrien, maybe frost. Those are killer picks, need to hit on 1st rounders. Fine he hit on a 5th rounder who became an nhl player. I want more than that.

His plan didnt make any sense to me. Fix the cap issues. ok, trade hartnell to do that. OK. Sign JAke and JVR......makes no sense. If you wanted to get rid of guys like schenn and hartnell, then clean house and bottom out. He wanted to get rid of guys but also stay competitive.......and here we are. I wouldve preferred if you trade schenn for guys that will help 4-5 years down the road. Do a proper rebuild and get high picks.......and he needed to draft better, the german, obrien, maybe frost. Those are killer picks, need to hit on 1st rounders. Fine he hit on a 5th rounder who became an nhl player. I want more than that.
- bradster

#1 Jake was on the Flyers already and he was like 25/26 when he was signed.

#2 He didnt get rid of Schenn to clean out a bottom out. He traded Schenn because a really good offer was put on the table. Two 1st round picks for Schenn and to take Lehtera off their hands

#3 Hartnell also wasnt dealt to bottom out. He was dealt because Hextall wanted to get out from under that contract. Homer signed him too long and it ended up being the right move as Hartnell had to be bought out in 2017 with 2 years still left on his deal.

#4 Hextall signed JVR because "they were going to be taking the next step" This is ultimately what lead to his firing because that next step never happened.

#1 Jake was on the Flyers already and he was like 25/26 when he was signed.

#2 He didnt get rid of Schenn to clean out a bottom out. He traded Schenn because a really good offer was put on the table. Two 1st round picks for Schenn and to take Lehtera off their hands

#3 Hartnell also wasnt dealt to bottom out. He was dealt because Hextall wanted to get out from under that contract. Homer signed him too long and it ended up being the right move as Hartnell had to be bought out in 2017 with 2 years still left on his deal.

#4 Hextall signed JVR because "they were going to be taking the next step" This is ultimately what lead to his firing because that next step never happened.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

exactly my point, he didnt do anything to bottom out, which he should have if he was trading schenn and hartnell. I would agree hartnell wouldve been the right deal if we didnt have to take umberger back. But that kind of defeated the purpose. MAde us much worse, but still didnt want to bottom out

Really? I think this is very promising so far.

2020 Entry
Tyson Foerster
Emil Andrae
Zayde Wisdom
Elliot Desnoyers
Connor McClennon

2019 Entry
Cam York
Bobby Brink
Ronnie Attard
Mason Millman
Egor Serdyuk
Roddy Ross
Bryce Brodzinski
- jd250

Now do 2021......

Yes Bill, I did watch the game and I know you did also. Look no further than what you have to do to defend Frost? You know the old trick when one friend attempts to set up his friend with a less than attractive girl? You know, he says "You'll like her, she is really fun to be it, full of life!" That is what you are doing in trying to defend Frost here. I watch a player that plays the game slow, constantly behind the play, consistently losing puck battles and as you say just OK with the details, like winning a faceoff for example. That is what me eyes see Bill, but my eyes also see players like Hodgson, who really has no future as a NHL regular, or a marginal NHL player like Willman making much more of impact than Frost has ever had this entire season! Heck, even MacEwen scored a nice goal last night, driving the net and making a nice move.

When have we once seen Frost even do what MacEwen did last night? Sorry, like I said I've seen enough of this kid to know he doesn't have the goods and if I were Fletcher he would be traded in the off season.
- jd250

What Bill is basically saying is what is already known. Your "eyes" are flawed and dysfunctional. Nevermind the silly analogy.

Oh Contraire! Patrick had a core injury his draft year and recall Hextall after drafting him mentioning he thoroughly examined all the information about the injury and was not concerned at the time.
- jd250

You have a reading comprehension issue. Read what I actually posted.

What Bill is basically saying is what is already known. Your "eyes" are flawed and dysfunctional. Nevermind the silly analogy.
- MJL

lol

I miss Gudas, i dont know why we ever got rid of him. He wasnt expensive, and he loved it in philly

What Bill is basically saying is what is already known. Your "eyes" are flawed and dysfunctional. Nevermind the silly analogy.
- MJL

You amaze me...
Your Pick apart RR right down to how his skates are pointed....
Why can't you see Frost has no desire.
Did you see his play with about 6 mins left.
Skates down left side, around net fumbles puck then proceeds to be shouldered off the puck with ease, He didn't even fight to regain puck back he was like ok take it I'm heading off the ice.

The declining 3rd liner wiith 2 more assists tonight

I miss Gudas, i dont know why we ever got rid of him. He wasnt expensive, and he loved it in philly
- bradster

Because Ivan needs training wheels or he tips the (frank) over.