spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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83.6% of the Sens top 6 come directly from their development pool. Reasonable to expect that at least two more kids will break into the top 9 next year.
Who is the developmental fail? Are you profoundly disappointed in Tkachuk. Batherson, Norris, Stutzle or Formenton?
Defense development is indeed slower. But Dmen do follow a slower development path and the horizon is very bright. Expect Thompson, JBD and Sanderson to see some NHL ice time next season.
Obviously goaltending is the trailing factor. The Sens do have some very good prospects but no sure fire candidate likely to take over the #1 job in the short term.
Teams win with their top 6 forwards, top 4 Dmen and good NHL quality goaltending.
It makes no sense to me that we have so much wailing, knahing and weeping over our bottom 6 forwards and our 6th and 7th Dman.
Patience folks, this is going to be a very good team.
Remember, it is just a few seasons ago Joe Sakic was being ripped every day for not getting game results consistent with the supposedly high quality of the Avs prospect pool. Same for Florida, Carolina, Rangers and a few others.
We need to talk a lot less about the marginal players fighting for jobs and trying to hang unto a roster spot at the bottom of the line up card. |
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one of the highlights for me when watching the train wreck usage of the 3rd and 4th line with Holden and Zaitsev (why would you throw them all out there together???)
At one point Holden (who really didn't look that bad trying to cover for Z) he gets the puck in our end and both teams do a line change...he gets to about center ice....there's nobody around him....he probably could have skated in Florida's zone and shot. Instead he just kinda stops....looks around and dumps it in.
The fan in front of me hears me snort and turns around and says...."looks like he had a bit of a mini-stroke there, didn't know what to do with all that time"
LMAO.....on point. |
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83.6% of the Sens top 6 come directly from their development pool. Reasonable to expect that at least two more kids will break into the top 9 next year.
Who is the developmental fail? Are you profoundly disappointed in Tkachuk. Batherson, Norris, Stutzle or Formenton?
Defense development is indeed slower. But Dmen do follow a slower development path and the horizon is very bright. Expect Thompson, JBD and Sanderson to see some NHL ice time next season.
Obviously goaltending is the trailing factor. The Sens do have some very good prospects but no sure fire candidate likely to take over the #1 job in the short term.
Teams win with their top 6 forwards, top 4 Dmen and good NHL quality goaltending.
It makes no sense to me that we have so much wailing, knahing and weeping over our bottom 6 forwards and our 6th and 7th Dman.
Patience folks, this is going to be a very good team.
Remember, it is just a few seasons ago Joe Sakic was being ripped every day for not getting game results consistent with the supposedly high quality of the Avs prospect pool. Same for Florida, Carolina, Rangers and a few others.
We need to talk a lot less about the marginal players fighting for jobs and trying to hang unto a roster spot at the bottom of the line up card. - spatso
Lets rewind back to the last blog in which you failed on realizing that all the fans on the blog wanted something to happen to Dorion in terms of discipline, nobody wanted them to lose a draft pick. Yet, you went on a rant about this when every single person posting here on the blog were in one corner yet you tried to tell us all how bad we were as fans. You couldn't have been more wrong.
Now we get to listen to you tell all the fans on the blog again that you are correct and that we all shouldn't dwell on things the way we do. That we wine and complain. Well when management brings it on themselves fans should call them out on it and not give the coaching staff a free pass. End of story.
So to your post, agree to disagree but don't come on here and tell everyone they are all wrong about the Sens and that only you see it clearly. Enough with the, I'm holier than though attitude.
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one of the highlights for me when watching the train wreck usage of the 3rd and 4th line with Holden and Zaitsev (why would you throw them all out there together???)
At one point Holden (who really didn't look that bad trying to cover for Z) he gets the puck in our end and both teams do a line change...he gets to about center ice....there's nobody around him....he probably could have skated in Florida's zone and shot. Instead he just kinda stops....looks around and dumps it in.
The fan in front of me hears me snort and turns around and says...."looks like he had a bit of a mini-stroke there, didn't know what to do with all that time"
LMAO.....on point. - Octavarium
MDZ and Zaitsev can't be in this lineup come the start of next season, Nikita isn't a top 3 or 4 but continuously gets put out there for another full season like he did this year. Holden has fallen under the Zaitsev curse of captain chaos, whoever is paired with him they get ruined in minutes on the ice.
You are only as good as your bottom 6 forwards to take away matchups for the top 6 forwards and this is where this team has failed miserably this year by having fringe NHL players, but more skill wise to that of the AHL. Tierney got paid by Dorion and for the life of me wasn't worth the contract he got. Put on the 3rd line again Saturday night, he's absolutely useless. Nobody is going to produce on that line with him centering it. The 4th line is a disaster too.
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There needs to be some accountability on player development. You can't keep having highly (or marginally) touted guys fall off the face of the earth. It's strange that Ottawa always seems to have a decently ranked prospect pool, but what comes out of that prospect pool has resulted in bottom of the league results other than a couple of weird lucky years. It's naive to think all prospects will pan out, but when you are in a rebuild, you'd think a few more would pan out since that's where the focus should be. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
There's zero accountability hence why McGuire got hired because you know the owner was tired of the constant misses with players being developed. This owner cant have top picks miss at the NHL level, he needs cheap cheap as much as possible.
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Lets rewind back to the last blog in which you failed on realizing that all the fans on the blog wanted something to happen to Dorion in terms of discipline, nobody wanted them to lose a draft pick. Yet, you went on a rant about this when every single person posting here on the blog were in one corner yet you tried to tell us all how bad we were as fans. You couldn't have been more wrong.
Now we get to listen to you tell all the fans on the blog again that you are correct and that we all shouldn't dwell on things the way we do. That we wine and complain. Well when management brings it on themselves fans should call them out on it and not give the coaching staff a free pass. End of story.
So to your post, agree to disagree but don't come on here and tell everyone they are all wrong about the Sens and that only you see it clearly. Enough with the, I'm holier than though attitude. - LawyerSens4Life
I think you are essentially correct. It seems to me there is way too much negative energy going into finding fault. Perhaps I am merely a hope merchant. I like this team. I like the characters that make up this team and I feel really positive about the path this team is following.
It must be hard to be a fan and be so unhappy with the direction the team is following.
I have no illusions about the need for change. It is inevitable. Sometime in the near future the Sens will have a new owner, GM and coach. But, I fully intend to enjoy this team for what it is in the moment.
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83.6% of the Sens top 6 come directly from their development pool. Reasonable to expect that at least two more kids will break into the top 9 next year.
Who is the developmental fail? Are you profoundly disappointed in Tkachuk. Batherson, Norris, Stutzle or Formenton?
Defense development is indeed slower. But Dmen do follow a slower development path and the horizon is very bright. Expect Thompson, JBD and Sanderson to see some NHL ice time next season.
Obviously goaltending is the trailing factor. The Sens do have some very good prospects but no sure fire candidate likely to take over the #1 job in the short term.
Teams win with their top 6 forwards, top 4 Dmen and good NHL quality goaltending.
It makes no sense to me that we have so much wailing, knahing and weeping over our bottom 6 forwards and our 6th and 7th Dman.
Patience folks, this is going to be a very good team.
Remember, it is just a few seasons ago Joe Sakic was being ripped every day for not getting game results consistent with the supposedly high quality of the Avs prospect pool. Same for Florida, Carolina, Rangers and a few others.
We need to talk a lot less about the marginal players fighting for jobs and trying to hang unto a roster spot at the bottom of the line up card. - spatso
I think for the most part, fans are happy with the core (although goaltenting is suspect). The serious concern is about the decision makers; A coach that plays favorites in weird ways and can't seem to adjust, and a GM that continually brings in project/waiver wire players banking all them working out. These two combined make most fans terrified that what could be a good team, will never get close to it's potential because of mismanagement (throw in a cheap owner and you've got even less room for mistakes)
I have no doubt that there'd be great optimism if there were changes in the front office, but for now, it seems mostly mistakes and half measures.
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Bartacus
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 01.08.2019
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The hardest thing to reconcile for me is that we were sold a narrative of unparalleled success and spending to the cap, but we continue to make moves that prioritize reducing actual money out. In any other market we would be leveraging our cap space for strategic gain, but instead we dwell on debating what sweeteners we need to attach to shed problematic contracts. If our front office's aspiration when waiving players is that another team scoops up the contract, then why did we not try putting Zaitsev on waivers? The only rationale I can see is that they think he improves the on ice product, and if that's the case, that's a red flag. |
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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I think for the most part, fans are happy with the core (although goaltenting is suspect). The serious concern is about the decision makers; A coach that plays favorites in weird ways and can't seem to adjust, and a GM that continually brings in project/waiver wire players banking all them working out. These two combined make most fans terrified that what could be a good team, will never get close to it's potential because of mismanagement (throw in a cheap owner and you've got even less room for mistakes)
I have no doubt that there'd be great optimism if there were changes in the front office, but for now, it seems mostly mistakes and half measures. - CooCooKaChoo
I don't disagree that there are deep feelings of anxiety around the edges of this team. But, it appears to me, the core rebuild is going really well. Perhaps the negative expectations will prove prophetic. But, right now I like what I am seeing.
If you are going to play a top 6 that gets outscored you will lose a lot more than you win.. But, how can you grow as a team if you do not give your inexperienced top 6 ice time against the best players in the league?
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Spatso.
It's how much better they COULD be.
I'm only negative about wasted opportunity, chances steering the correct path.
None of this is rocket science. Whatever the "plan" is by management/coaching staff it's been counter to what most fans are screaming for.
This was the last year most of us were willing to put up "playing the kids for growth".
Like lets make a laundry list of things you wanted to see this year:
(and see if the coach's behavior shows he was in line with that thinking)
1. Goalie repair. Fix Matt Murray's ego, get the 6 million dollar ship righted, keep gus in Bellville, maybe get him a few games. The ship got torpedoed to BellVegas, came back and played well, only to get shell shocked by a mis-managed defense. Now he's gone, gus has had no development, we're forced into another 3 year back-up goalie deal.
2. Play the defense right, bring up some of the kids, play them. I was willing to put up many losses/learning experiences for Thompson/JBD/Brannstrom. Instead I got more of the same leaning on Chabot until exhaustion cost him some big hits and ultimately injury. Meanwhile a carousel of partners that DID NOT include the three I mentioned above. Brief glimpses and stretches are NOT "playing the kids". Zaitsev, Mete and BROWN, should have been serving hotdogs to Mendes in the press box all season. Instead...somehow J.Brown ends up as the coach's Norris candidate. Even with last change home advantage, the coach routinely throws his 5-6 pairing out in key situations. I'm sure Kev could go through the games and show us how many times this has blown up spectacularly in his face. This isn't house league feel-good hockey. Play the best players and at the right times.
3. Forwards. Play the kids. Look at Timmy at Center. Fix Colin White. Well....that went off the rails in a hurry with injury and Covid. Still coach waited until he was completely backed into a corner before trying Stutzle at center. And it went as expected. Some nights he dazzles, some nights he tries to do too much, some nights gets out muscled. The point here is that it should have been an 80 game experiment. Colin White comes back, is nearly a point-a-game upon return, gets benched if he blows his nose the wrong way on the ice. Coach hates him, GM can't stand him. Nice positivity there. Gambrell, Gaudette, Tierney, Third liners and fourth liners getting second line minutes. Goofy line changes at terrible times. Outcoached at home with the wrong personnel out in key situations. Ennis scratched??? DUDE.
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Spatso.
It's how much better they COULD be.
I'm only negative about wasted opportunity, chances steering the correct path.
None of this is rocket science. Whatever the "plan" is by management/coaching staff it's been counter to what most fans are screaming for.
This was the last year most of us were willing to put up "playing the kids for growth".
Like lets make a laundry list of things you wanted to see this year:
(and see if the coach's behavior shows he was in line with that thinking)
1. Goalie repair. Fix Matt Murray's ego, get the 6 million dollar ship righted, keep gus in Bellville, maybe get him a few games. The ship got torpedoed to BellVegas, came back and played well, only to get shell shocked by a mis-managed defense. Now he's gone, gus has had no development, we're forced into another 3 year back-up goalie deal.
2. Play the defense right, bring up some of the kids, play them. I was willing to put up many losses/learning experiences for Thompson/JBD/Brannstrom. Instead I got more of the same leaning on Chabot until exhaustion cost him some big hits and ultimately injury. Meanwhile a carousel of partners that DID NOT include the three I mentioned above. Brief glimpses and stretches are NOT "playing the kids". Zaitsev, Mete and BROWN, should have been serving hotdogs to Mendes in the press box all season. Instead...somehow J.Brown ends up as the coach's Norris candidate. Even with last change home advantage, the coach routinely throws his 5-6 pairing out in key situations. I'm sure Kev could go through the games and show us how many times this has blown up spectacularly in his face. This isn't house league feel-good hockey. Play the best players and at the right times.
3. Forwards. Play the kids. Look at Timmy at Center. Fix Colin White. Well....that went off the rails in a hurry with injury and Covid. Still coach waited until he was completely backed into a corner before trying Stutzle at center. And it went as expected. Some nights he dazzles, some nights he tries to do too much, some nights gets out muscled. The point here is that it should have been an 80 game experiment. Colin White comes back, is nearly a point-a-game upon return, gets benched if he blows his nose the wrong way on the ice. Coach hates him, GM can't stand him. Nice positivity there. Gambrell, Gaudette, Tierney, Third liners and fourth liners getting second line minutes. Goofy line changes at terrible times. Outcoached at home with the wrong personnel out in key situations. Ennis scratched??? DUDE. - Octavarium
I can appreciate your frustration but we need to hang in just a little longer.
My great fear is the negative Nellie's will become louder and the team will be stampeded into doing something in order to make fans happy and save their own jobs.
Not everyone has Joe Sakic's rep. Without the reputation, it is hard to say "hang tough for another year or so." But this team will continue to lose as long as our top six is outscored by the top six from the opposing team.
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Bartacus
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 01.08.2019
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The negativity has been here for a few years now, and I have yet to see it push management to do anything remotely exciting. Instead of taking gambles, they take Gambrells. You say 'we're gonna play the kids', and then you find a way to ice the oldest possible combination of players. If you want to sell a narrative, follow through on it. It is bananas that we need to rely on injuries to force experimentation. |
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The negativity has been here for a few years now, and I have yet to see it push management to do anything remotely exciting. Instead of taking gambles, they take Gambrells. You say 'we're gonna play the kids', and then you find a way to ice the oldest possible combination of players. If you want to sell a narrative, follow through on it. It is bananas that we need to rely on injuries to force experimentation. - Bartacus
You are bang on and there are always going to be a few that drink the Kool Aid PD tries to provide with his narrative. He was telling us the same thing last year at the deadline once it was over, the year before that, the same thing. So 3 straight years of promises or should I say lying, which many on the coaching staff and front office are quite sick of with him, as he's a pretty good liar and lies to the fans at every press conference then tries to control the questions given to him, then if he doesn't like the question he says he isn't having a press conference to talk about Brannstrom. This man is a clown too just like the head coach. Both will never get another GM or HC in the NHL again once they are relieved of their duties, so that should tell every fan how bad things are with the band aid picks ups that constantly happen but hinder the true direction of the team that we are told will happen, be patient. Enough is enough!
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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You are bang on and there are always going to be a few that drink the Kool Aid PD tries to provide with his narrative. He was telling us the same thing last year at the deadline once it was over, the year before that, the same thing. So 3 straight years of promises or should I say lying, which many on the coaching staff and front office are quite sick of with him, as he's a pretty good liar and lies to the fans at every press conference then tries to control the questions given to him, then if he doesn't like the question he says he isn't having a press conference to talk about Brannstrom. This man is a clown too just like the head coach. Both will never get another GM or HC in the NHL again once they are relieved of their duties, so that should tell every fan how bad things are with the band aid picks ups that constantly happen but hinder the true direction of the team that we are told will happen, be patient. Enough is enough! - Kevin Francis
The hard part of a rebuild, especially in a small market, is you still need to maintain fan interest and generate revenues by maintaining a hope interest through the actual rebuild process.
You cannot tell the fan base we are going to stink for 3-4 years. And, even when we have better players they will be very raw and need time to develop.
Nobody should be surprised with where the Sens are today. We got our hopes up when they made a nice run at the end of last season. There are no magic bullets. It takes time and patience.
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Let's take a quick look at the lineup Ottawa will be icing this week, goaltending aside.
Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson - PD better make sure Norris is signed before training camp, he says judge us next year, well if you don't any issues out of the gate ice a full lineup and no nickel and diming this kid.
Formenton-Stützle-CBrown - As we all know Stutzle got TOI at center due to injuries otherwise we never would've known! Formenton got promoted to 2nd line status due to injuries. The coach was stunting both of their growths prior to injuries, now he has to leave them in these spots. 100% Connor Brown will be gone by March of next season, they can't and won't pay 5 million-plus for him to stay.
Joseph-Tierney-White - Tierney will be gone come the end of the season and we can almost 100% expect White to be traded as both HC and GM hate him which everyone knows, I wish I could write the stuff this guy has been through with both of these men, but off the record I won't do that with my sources. Joseph will be qualified, Pinto will slide into the 3C role but a 3rd RW is needed and NO.....Sokolov isn't anywhere near ready for this role, in fact the last 2 months he hasn't progressed much at all, even Mann has said on the radio that he has had to take him aside a few times for talks about his inconsistency.
Ennis-Gambrell-Watson - extra forward Gaudette
Watson is the only one under contract for next season. Ennis might be brought back to be the veteran 13th forward I'm told. Kastelic and Kelly are expected to slide in with Watson.
So this summer, PD needs to get a 3rd line RW and a top six forward because CBrown will be gone prior to the NHL trade deadline. While signing Norris before the start of training camp.
Brannstrom-Zub - Brannstrom will most likely be traded this summer and Chabot slides back in after his injury to be with Zub.
Del Zotto-Hamonic - Jake Sanderson will take MDZ's spot once healthy and Ottawa will trade MDZ this summer.
Holden-Zaitsev - 7th dman Mete -
Mete won't be qualified this summer and Zaitsev needs to be either traded or his salary buried in the AHL. Holden should be paired with one of JBD or Thomson here.
So PD needs to trade MDZ, Zaitsev and Brannstrom to clear up the mess on the blueline or this team will fail miserably if they have anything close to the mess on the blueline right now.
Anyways, the reason I posted this, is to have a realistic look at what is on the ice now versus what should or could be come October opening night, whatever date that might be. The biggest move should come from behind the bench and fire DJ and his 700k salary, I don't want to hear that Eugene can't afford to pay him not to coach for 2 years, he buried MDZ's mistake of a contract in the AHL, they need to move on from the biggest problem holding this team back in DJ! |
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The hard part of a rebuild, especially in a small market, is you still need to maintain fan interest and generate revenues by maintaining a hope interest through the actual rebuild process.
You cannot tell the fan base we are going to stink for 3-4 years. And, even when we have better players they will be very raw and need time to develop.
Nobody should be surprised with where the Sens are today. We got our hopes up when they made a nice run at the end of last season. There are no magic bullets. It takes time and patience. - spatso
They've blown the window for the last 2 years of no expectations by not developing players properly or by getting them the icetime they could've given them, allowing them to grow so that next year the learning curve isn't as steep! JR and Simmer have outlined it numerous times on the radio and they are 110% correct.
Fans are getting angry now due to how the coach utilizes the players and is FLAT OUT HURTING a bunch of the players with his decisions. But they didn't use this window, failed miserably by which fans gave them that free pass, which is absolutely dumbfounding and until you can realize this, I am done talking with you on this topic because you fail to see reality. |
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each year OTT is messing around in the bottom is 1 year gone off current players contract and 1 year of prime age gone, if Dorion does nothing to get a legit top 6 RW and move brown to 3 RW till he is traded or Re-signed (you never know) you can forget OTT ever being a cup contender, hell they will be barely playoffs contenders.
enough is enough of bottom feeding, progress must be made in the standings or fans will tune out |
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each year OTT is messing around in the bottom is 1 year gone off current players contract and 1 year of prime age gone, if Dorion does nothing to get a legit top 6 RW and move brown to 3 RW till he is traded or Re-signed (you never know) you can forget OTT ever being a cup contender, hell they will be barely playoffs contenders.
enough is enough of bottom feeding, progress must be made in the standings or fans will tune out - Mithos
Some already are, sadly. Not much talk at all about this team on social media. It's sad, but self inflicted. This team will re-sign Zub over CBrown, they can only get one of them under the cap with deals to come for Norris, Formenton this summer, Stutzle next summer, then in 2 years Sanderson. JBD and Thomson will need new deals as well, naturally if they can unload Matt Murray then they could possibly keep CBrown but they are going to have to extend a player like Fiala if they acquired him or if they sign a top 6 forward free agent.....this team has to do more than contend for the playoffs next year as like you said, they need to take advantage of the ELC for some of these young players. That's how teams like TB and Colorado did it folks!
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83.6% of the Sens top 6 come directly from their development pool. Reasonable to expect that at least two more kids will break into the top 9 next year.
Who is the developmental fail? Are you profoundly disappointed in Tkachuk. Batherson, Norris, Stutzle or Formenton?
Defense development is indeed slower. But Dmen do follow a slower development path and the horizon is very bright. Expect Thompson, JBD and Sanderson to see some NHL ice time next season.
Obviously goaltending is the trailing factor. The Sens do have some very good prospects but no sure fire candidate likely to take over the #1 job in the short term.
Teams win with their top 6 forwards, top 4 Dmen and good NHL quality goaltending.
It makes no sense to me that we have so much wailing, knahing and weeping over our bottom 6 forwards and our 6th and 7th Dman.
Patience folks, this is going to be a very good team.
Remember, it is just a few seasons ago Joe Sakic was being ripped every day for not getting game results consistent with the supposedly high quality of the Avs prospect pool. Same for Florida, Carolina, Rangers and a few others.
We need to talk a lot less about the marginal players fighting for jobs and trying to hang unto a roster spot at the bottom of the line up card. - spatso
Everyone is fine with Brady, Batherson, Stu, Norris, Chabot, etc right now. Solid core. With that said, that groups still needs to grow. Chabot is at his ceiling, the rest will need to catch up. Batherson and Stu seem to have point per game potential which is required to win in todays game.
Your post basically pointed out the developmental shortfalls, defence and goaltending. Branstrom was supposed to be Chabot 2.0 but appears to be anything but. He's has weird development his whole tenure in Ottawa. Lack of willingness to play him on his preferred side and strange deployment when he is in the lineup. Not to mention, the Sens haven't had a self-developed regular d-man other than Chabot in quite sometime. Gustavsson has not had a chance to play consistently for almost 2 years. Constant shuffling around and games in the press box.
I will only focus on these two prospects for this post, but there are other examples over the last few years. With these two prospects, the cost to bring them in was huge. Brannstrom was in the Stone deal and Gustavsson was part of the Brassard deal who was part of the Zibanejad deal. You can't wiff on these so regularly. Development has played a role and there is no accountability for a player not performing. Well, actually DJ will sit them and play someone else who is even worse but more his style. So maybe "appropriate accountability" is a more appropriate terms.
The rebuild is still in motion but you can't ignore depth. Rebuilds that go no where had poor development and poor lineup depth. If Ottawa could add a legit forward and possibly d-man in the next year, that would push some of the existing depth down the depth chart and thus creating a better team. No one wants a slight upgrade on Josh Brown or Zach Sanford. Fan wants a lineup where those guys have next to zero shot on even making the team let alone play.
I am also not insinuating that the organization should sell all assets via trade but some savvy moves should be encouraged. |
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Everyone is fine with Brady, Batherson, Stu, Norris, Chabot, etc right now. Solid core. With that said, that groups still needs to grow. Chabot is at his ceiling, the rest will need to catch up. Batherson and Stu seem to have point per game potential which is required to win in todays game.
Your post basically pointed out the developmental shortfalls, defence and goaltending. Branstrom was supposed to be Chabot 2.0 but appears to be anything but. He's has weird development his whole tenure in Ottawa. Lack of willingness to play him on his preferred side and strange deployment when he is in the lineup. Not to mention, the Sens haven't had a self-developed regular d-man other than Chabot in quite sometime. Gustavsson has not had a chance to play consistently for almost 2 years. Constant shuffling around and games in the press box.
I will only focus on these two prospects for this post, but there are other examples over the last few years. With these two prospects, the cost to bring them in was huge. Brannstrom was in the Stone deal and Gustavsson was part of the Brassard deal who was part of the Zibanejad deal. You can't wiff on these so regularly. Development has played a role and there is no accountability for a player not performing. Well, actually DJ will sit them and play someone else who is even worse but more his style. So maybe "appropriate accountability" is a more appropriate terms.
The rebuild is still in motion but you can't ignore depth. Rebuilds that go no where had poor development and poor lineup depth. If Ottawa could add a legit forward and possibly d-man in the next year, that would push some of the existing depth down the depth chart and thus creating a better team. No one wants a slight upgrade on Josh Brown or Zach Sanford. Fan wants a lineup where those guys have next to zero shot on even making the team let alone play.
I am also not insinuating that the organization should sell all assets via trade but some savvy moves should be encouraged. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
A+
Would the Sens be a solid playoff contender if they could add the right forward, a solid Dman and a good goaltender? Even then, I am not sure the top 6 would be strong enough to make a playoff push. Not because they are not talented enough. Just because they are not yet ready for prime time.
Watch, everyone is going to see in the playoffs just how strong a bottom 6 player Nick Paul can be.
Way too much attention is given to the Sens failure to get the right bottom 6 guys. But being bottom 6 on an elite team with elite top 6 skaters is very different than skating behind highly talented kids who often forget about playing a full 200' game.
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Bartacus
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 01.08.2019
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I think it serves to note that the reason why we grouse about bottom 6 players and bottom pair defenders is that those are the only kinds of players this front office has brought into the organization for the past four years. We talk a lot about needing a top 6 RW, but this front office traded arguably the most complete RW in the league in Mark Stone for peanuts, and let another one walk for nothing a couple years ago in Duclair. It's like our mantra is 'we can't have nice things'.
Forget the on ice product for a second - internal policies regarding zero bonuses and zero trade protection, coupled with one of the higher tax burdens in the league means players are taking home less and subject to higher escrow. 48M of Stone's 76M contract in Vegas is bonus. Really the only two assets this team seems to have to lure players are:
A. You'll get the opportunity for more ice time and boost your stats because the lineup is thin, in eventual hope of being dealt and paid somewhere else.
B. Hey, come play for your hometown! Wouldn't that be neat?
Factor in that the coach deployment rewards waiver plugs over promising talent, and the dubious 'asset' of being willing to give young players wanting a bigger role more ice time is tarnished. Not to mention that the promise of ice time will attract reclamation projects and unproven youth, not top talent. Bottom line is that this team needs money, and given our owner, it actually needs to *make* money in order to be successful... but in order to make money in this world, you've got to spend some money first. You invest and hope for a better return. From everything I can tell, we don't have the money to spend, so we float in limbo, all while being sold promises of a better future. If you feel content in skating circles on that moebius strip and believe the rhetoric, power to you. I am less easily convinced. |
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I think it serves to note that the reason why we grouse about bottom 6 players and bottom pair defenders is that those are the only kinds of players this front office has brought into the organization for the past four years. We talk a lot about needing a top 6 RW, but this front office traded arguably the most complete RW in the league in Mark Stone for peanuts, and let another one walk for nothing a couple years ago in Duclair. It's like our mantra is 'we can't have nice things'.
Forget the on ice product for a second - internal policies regarding zero bonuses and zero trade protection, coupled with one of the higher tax burdens in the league means players are taking home less and subject to higher escrow. 48M of Stone's 76M contract in Vegas is bonus. Really the only two assets this team seems to have to lure players are:
A. You'll get the opportunity for more ice time and boost your stats because the lineup is thin, in eventual hope of being dealt and paid somewhere else.
B. Hey, come play for your hometown! Wouldn't that be neat?
Factor in that the coach deployment rewards waiver plugs over promising talent, and the dubious 'asset' of being willing to give young players wanting a bigger role more ice time is tarnished. Not to mention that the promise of ice time will attract reclamation projects and unproven youth, not top talent. Bottom line is that this team needs money, and given our owner, it actually needs to *make* money in order to be successful... but in order to make money in this world, you've got to spend some money first. You invest and hope for a better return. From everything I can tell, we don't have the money to spend, so we float in limbo, all while being sold promises of a better future. If you feel content in skating circles on that moebius strip and believe the rhetoric, power to you. I am less easily convinced. - Bartacus
Some flat out great responses in this blog. I visit other blogs, this one is great with how much fans put into their responses. Knowledgable hockey fans.
Dorion getting so little for Stone not to mention Dzingel, the 2 second round picks used on Stepan and Murray trade then like you said how any GM would let Duclair walk in the middle of a rebuild with trouble getting to the floor of the cap, he should've lost his job with those 2 deals period. Not to mention how little he got for Duchene and how much he gave up for him. This GM can't asset manage and he should be fired before he permanently does damage that sets the team back another 3-5 years like he has done since 2017.
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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I think it serves to note that the reason why we grouse about bottom 6 players and bottom pair defenders is that those are the only kinds of players this front office has brought into the organization for the past four years. We talk a lot about needing a top 6 RW, but this front office traded arguably the most complete RW in the league in Mark Stone for peanuts, and let another one walk for nothing a couple years ago in Duclair. It's like our mantra is 'we can't have nice things'.
Forget the on ice product for a second - internal policies regarding zero bonuses and zero trade protection, coupled with one of the higher tax burdens in the league means players are taking home less and subject to higher escrow. 48M of Stone's 76M contract in Vegas is bonus. Really the only two assets this team seems to have to lure players are:
A. You'll get the opportunity for more ice time and boost your stats because the lineup is thin, in eventual hope of being dealt and paid somewhere else.
B. Hey, come play for your hometown! Wouldn't that be neat?
Factor in that the coach deployment rewards waiver plugs over promising talent, and the dubious 'asset' of being willing to give young players wanting a bigger role more ice time is tarnished. Not to mention that the promise of ice time will attract reclamation projects and unproven youth, not top talent. Bottom line is that this team needs money, and given our owner, it actually needs to *make* money in order to be successful... but in order to make money in this world, you've got to spend some money first. You invest and hope for a better return. From everything I can tell, we don't have the money to spend, so we float in limbo, all while being sold promises of a better future. If you feel content in skating circles on that moebius strip and believe the rhetoric, power to you. I am less easily convinced. - Bartacus
I think the whole ice time issue and Smith supposedly giving more ice time to his "favourites" at the expense of giving ice time to the kids is a total crock. If you look at the average ice time per game I think you will see that it is allocated pretty much in line with what you would want and expect.
I have no great desire to defend Smith but I think some of the folks here are starting to loose perspective on what is actually happening in terms of playing time.
Average ice time for Ottawa Dmen: Chabot 26.23, Zub 21.34, Holden 20.07, Brannstrom 19.20, Zaitsev 19.13
Average ice time for Ottawa forwards: Connor Brown 20.11, Batherson 18.57, Tkachuk 18.36, Norris 18.24, Stutzle 18.07, Nick Paul 17.22, Formenton 15.09, Sanford 14.11, Tierney 12.47, Ennis 12.38, Gaudette 12.02, Watson 11.51, Gambrelle 11.42, Parker Kelly 9.42
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I think the whole ice time issue and Smith supposedly giving more ice time to his "favourites" at the expense of giving ice time to the kids is a total crock. If you look at the average ice time per game I think you will see that it is allocated pretty much in line with what you would want and expect.
I have no great desire to defend Smith but I think some of the folks here are starting to loose perspective on what is actually happening in terms of playing time.
Average ice time for Ottawa Dmen: Chabot 26.23, Zub 21.34, Holden 20.07, Brannstrom 19.20, Zaitsev 19.13
Average ice time for Ottawa forwards: Connor Brown 20.11, Batherson 18.57, Tkachuk 18.36, Norris 18.24, Stutzle 18.07, Nick Paul 17.22, Formenton 15.09, Sanford 14.11, Tierney 12.47, Ennis 12.38, Gaudette 12.02, Watson 11.51, Gambrelle 11.42, Parker Kelly 9.42 - spatso
Reading your comments all season about how this team is fun to watch or twisting things to look the way you want them to look, the I know more than everyone and everyone is wrong but me attitude, cut the crap man. Formenton and Stutzle were getting way less icetime when the team was healthy, no injuries and no covid. Formenton many nights in October and November was getting 11-12 min. and Stutzle was 14-15 min. So spare me the average icetime, if it wasn't injuries or covid this coaching staff would've kept the less icetime up. The ONLY reason their average icetime is where it is now isn't because he wanted to give them more icetime out of the goodness of his heart it was because he had no other options then he found out the 2 of them were worthy of it. Stop with your garbage and selective memory crap.
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Some flat out great responses in this blog. I visit other blogs, this one is great with how much fans put into their responses. Knowledgable hockey fans.
Dorion getting so little for Stone not to mention Dzingel, the 2 second round picks used on Stepan and Murray trade then like you said how any GM would let Duclair walk in the middle of a rebuild with trouble getting to the floor of the cap, he should've lost his job with those 2 deals period. Not to mention how little he got for Duchene and how much he gave up for him. This GM can't asset manage and he should be fired before he permanently does damage that sets the team back another 3-5 years like he has done since 2017. - PuckPix
Great points and in any other market with any other owner, this would not be tolerated. I don't know how many of you listen to local sports radio but Steve Lloyd has been banging the drum for months about how Dorion is one of only 7 GM's in the history of the NHL to survive not making the playoffs for 5 straight seasons.
Can you imagine getting so little for those names then in turn lose it all for nothing or not develop the prospects from those trades because you have a meat head coach that coaches like it's 1995.
Mediocrity would be nice but we don't even get that as fans anymore. Being a bottom dweller is accepted by too many fans and then you get guys on here posting like spatso, who try to twist the narrative in the favour of their arguments. This being, he gets outcoached in the simplest of areas on homeice far too often that any coach doing the stupidity that DJ Smith emplores is pathetic. He doesn't know what favourable match ups are or line matching is, because if he did this team would have at least 4-5 more wins this season. That's what good coaches do, they get you 4-5 more wins than your talent has, great coaches snag even more wins on nights when their teams arent firing on a all cylinders so they coach the heck out of matchups getting the edge, therefore getting the win. It doesn't matter if you are coaching OHL, AHL or NHL, this type of stuff is hockey coaching 101, but with DJ its -101 lol. What a fool. |
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