25 years old 255 career games.

By comparison Poolman is 28 and has 159.

You may need to reassess your definition of fringe.
- Load Management

Healthy scratch on the mighty leafs blueline. Passed on the depth chart by guys younger or in the same age group.

Replacement level player, fringe, call it what you want. Semantics.

He was definitely after a raise, and deservedly so. He's earned it. Just doesn't fit with the Canucks, and that's fine.

Glad Allvin got something for him. The Canucks aren't really in a spot to "keep their own rentals" for a playoff push.
- NewYorkNuck

Benning built this team's defense off of signing overage/over their prime UFA defenders. The list below was their age when Benning signed them.

Myers - 29
Hunt - 33 (has been great this year)
Hamonic - 30
Schenn (29 when he traded for him a few years ago, but 32 this year) (still a very good UFA signing)
Poolman - 28

Burroughs - 26 (a great UFA signing IMO still)


I am not saying that these signings were all bad or all good, but I just don't think its optimal to build a defense through UFA defenseman signings, and all closer to the age of 30 than they are 20.

Benning built this team's defense off of signing overage/over their prime UFA defenders. The list below was their age when Benning signed them.

Myers - 29
Hunt - 33 (has been great this year)
Hamonic - 30
Schenn (29 when he traded for him a few years ago, but 32 this year) (still a very good UFA signing)
Poolman - 28

Burroughs - 26 (a great UFA signing IMO still)


I am not saying that these signings were all bad or all good, but I just don't think its optimal to build a defense through UFA defenseman signings, and all closer to the age of 30 than they are 20.
- Codes1087

Also not optimal trading for Pouliot’s, Clendening’s and Dermott’s.

Healthy scratch on the mighty leafs blueline. Passed on the depth chart by guys younger or in the same age group.

Replacement level player, fringe, call it what you want. Semantics.
- Nucker101

Makes less than Poolman. Played on a better team. Less term. Better numbers. Passed on the depth chart when they acquired 2 trade deadline D. Etc etc etc. Not semantics, logic.

Healthy scratch on the mighty NYR. Passed on the depth chart by guys younger or in the same age group with the Lightning.

Replacement level player, fringe, call it what you want. Semantics.
- Nucker101

Miller is a bum!

Also not optimal trading for Pouliot’s, Clendening’s and Dermott’s.
- Nucker101

why is everyone hating on Dermott? He has played 4 games for us lol.
I am not going to act like I am a die hard leafs fan and know all about him, but from the things I have read, he is a very capable defender.
From the 4 games I have watched, he has been defensively very sound?

dermott is 25, cost controlled (1 more year) and half the price of Hamonic
Allvin didn't sign Poolman in the first place, and im pretty sure he was injured during the TDL, not that I think teams were lining up to acquire him.
Management has said that they want to clear cap space and get younger, its just not going to get done in one TDL. You can't fix 8 years worth of bad cap management/trades/signings in 3 months, which is how long Allvin has been GM.
- Codes1087

Allvin hasn't signed any of the Canucks so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I didnt suggest trading Poolman, just pointed out that he'll be available eventually pushing Dermott down the depth chart and costing the team cap that you say he is saving.

Makes less than Poolman. Played on a better team. Less term. Better numbers. Passed on the depth chart when they acquired 2 trade deadline D. Etc etc etc. Not semantics, logic.
- Load Management

Allvin hasn't signed any of the Canucks so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I didnt suggest trading Poolman, just pointed out that he'll be available eventually pushing Dermott down the depth chart and costing the team cap that you say he is saving.
- boonerbuck

ok, well you didn't specify why you added Poolman into the conversation. I wasn't sure if it was his age, term, depth on the roster, or cap hit that you were referring to because you didnt reference.

And I don't think Poolman pushing Dermott down the depth chart. I see Dermott more as a 2nd pairing and poolman more as a bottom pairing.

Makes less than Poolman. Played on a better team. Less term. Better numbers. Passed on the depth chart when they acquired 2 trade deadline D. Etc etc etc. Not semantics, logic.
- Load Management

He was a healthy scratch before they made trades. I guess the narrative has conveniently changed regarding the Leafs defensive prowess in here. A guy who was in and out of that lineup doesn’t exactly scream “long term target” to me.

why is everyone hating on Dermott? He has played 4 games for us lol.
I am not going to act like I am a die hard leafs fan and know all about him, but from the things I have read, he is a very capable defender.
From the 4 games I have watched, he has been defensively very sound?
- Codes1087

Not hating, but how confident are you that he’s a tier above the caliber of players that get waived or signed cheap during the summer? Guys like Schenn, Burroughs, Clague, Mete, etc.

If he was defensively sound then why was he in and out of the Leafs lineup?

25 years old 255 career games.

By comparison Poolman is 28 and has 159.

You may need to reassess your definition of fringe.
- Load Management

Healthy scratch most nights when he was traded for... his GP shows a player who has been falling off over his short career steadily season to season. So yes, fringe player.

I never made claims about Poolman's level of quality or claim he's not fringe... but did make the point they already have him in the organization... no need to trade a 3rd for Dermott when they already have Poolman. You keep going sideways in this debate. It's like you are debating someone else's argument with me. Not sure if this is something you can control or not but please try...

Makes less than Poolman. Played on a better team. Less term. Better numbers. Passed on the depth chart when they acquired 2 trade deadline D. Etc etc etc. Not semantics, logic.
- Load Management

He's gotten less games every season since the 2018/19 season. This season didnt force that... it's been a trend for years.

Healthy scratch most nights when he was traded for... his GP shows a player who has been falling off over his short career steadily season to season. So yes, fringe player.

I never made claims about Poolman's level of quality or claim he's not fringe... but did make the point they already have him in the organization... no need to trade a 3rd for Dermott when they already have Poolman. You keep going sideways in this debate. It's like you are debating someone else's argument with me. Not sure if this is something you can control or not but please try...
- boonerbuck

The comparison to Poolman is weird. Not sure why overpaying Poolman is being used as a benchmark here. If that's the new bar that's being set, then this management could be mediocre and be celebrated as a success.

He was a healthy scratch before they made trades. I guess the narrative has conveniently changed regarding the Leafs defensive prowess in here. A guy who was in and out of that lineup doesn’t exactly scream “long term target” to me.
- Nucker101

We're talking a guy who makes 1.5 mil that expires after next year. The contract itself has value even if he doesn't pan out. I think I've spent enough time trying to lead this Camel to water.

I've liked what I've seen from this low risk acquisition. Only cost a 3rd and shaved 1.5mil off the books. Solid move.

why is everyone hating on Dermott? He has played 4 games for us lol.
I am not going to act like I am a die hard leafs fan and know all about him, but from the things I have read, he is a very capable defender.
From the 4 games I have watched, he has been defensively very sound?
- Codes1087

Not much hate going on for Dermott. Where does this "everyone" claim come from? I'm fine with what he's done as a 6/7/8... just not fine with trading a 3rd and losing the cap savings by half in the Hamonic trade for that role when the Canucks have a bunch of it in the organization already. Go to the waiver wire or farm team for it instead... you know, like the majority people wanted Benning to do instead of this.

Not hating, but how confident are you that he’s a tier above the caliber of players that get waived or signed cheap during the summer? Guys like Schenn, Burroughs, Clague, Mete, etc.

If he was defensively sound then why was he in and out of the Leafs lineup?
- Nucker101

well hes 25 with more games under his belt than Burroughs, Clague, Mete, Hunt, Poolman.

And players have good and bad years. JT Miller was healthy scratched and in and out of the NYR lineup for the first 3 years of his NHL career. He was 22/23 at the time, but it happens.

I get that people could possibly see this as a Clendening 2.0, or a Vey/Baertschi 2.0, but lets give it more than 4 nhl games, and our new GM more than 4 months before we start with hysterics?

Not much hate going on for Dermott. Where does this "everyone" claim come from? I'm fine with what he's done as a 6/7/8... just not fine with trading a 3rd and losing the cap savings by half in the Hamonic trade for that role when the Canucks have a bunch of it in the organization already. Go to the waiver wire or farm team for it instead... you know, like the majority people wanted Benning to do instead of this.
- boonerbuck

because you dont want to build a roster with waiver/scrap pick ups lol. I only ever wanted waiver pick ups to fill a roster spot once the team sold off players for assets. I am not sure who wanted to build the defense from waiver wires. This team has to start trending in the right direction with this core. As far as the farm and defenseman, other than Rathbone, its not looking good. Woo has dealt with many injuries, Brisebois has not taken that NHL pro step, we know what we have with Sautner and it isnt NHL calibre, and Juulsen is nothing more than a fringe NHL player right now in his career.

well hes 25 with more games under his belt than Burroughs, Clague, Mete, Hunt, Poolman.

And players have good and bad years. JT Miller was healthy scratched and in and out of the NYR lineup for the first 3 years of his NHL career. He was 22/23 at the time, but it happens.

I get that people could possibly see this as a Clendening 2.0, or a Vey/Baertschi 2.0, but lets give it more than 4 nhl games, and our new GM more than 4 months before we start with hysterics?
- Codes1087

Not sure if it's really hysterics when the similarities to those acquisitions are eerily similar. A once promising prospect who's development plateaus or even regresses as younger/similar aged players pass him on the depth chart.


JT Miller was healthy scratched at 22/23, also admits that he was immature back then and didn't prepare himself properly and his coaches likely noticed that as well. Dermott is 25 so I'd hope his issue isn't similar, so I'm assuming his is more just based on just not being a good enough player

because you dont want to build a roster with waiver/scrap pick ups lol. I only ever wanted waiver pick ups to fill a roster spot once the team sold off players for assets. I am not sure who wanted to build the defense from waiver wires. This team has to start trending in the right direction with this core. As far as the farm and defenseman, other than Rathbone, its not looking good. Woo has dealt with many injuries, Brisebois has not taken that NHL pro step, we know what we have with Sautner and it isnt NHL calibre, and Juulsen is nothing more than a fringe NHL player right now in his career.
- Codes1087

Why are we in this situation with a shallow prospect pool in the first place? Trading draft picks for other teams' scraps.

We're talking a guy who makes 1.5 mil that expires after next year. The contract itself has value even if he doesn't pan out. I think I've spent enough time trying to lead this Camel to water.

I've liked what I've seen from this low risk acquisition. Only cost a 3rd and shaved 1.5mil off the books. Solid move.
- Load Management

Redundant move at best. Another Benning type reclaiment project for a 3rd and twice as much as a 6/7/8 should hit the cap space with what's already in the organization.

I doubt his contract will have any value if he doesn't pan out.... unless Benning finds a new job and trades a pick for him.

Not sure if it's really hysterics when the similarities to those acquisitions are eerily similar. A once promising prospect who's development plateaus or even regresses as younger/similar aged players pass him on the depth chart.


JT Miller was healthy scratched at 22/23, also admits that he was immature back then and didn't prepare himself properly and his coaches likely noticed that as well. Dermott is 25 so I'd hope his issue isn't similar, so I'm assuming his is more just based on just not being a good enough player
- Nucker101

we know the path to the NHL by position isnt linear. Defenseman take longer, same with goalies. I am simply just saying, while I agree you can draw similarities between the vey/clendening/baertschi comparisons, you have to remember this is a new management. Let it play out a little bit. Its been 4 games. Id also like to point out that Demott has much more experience than any of those 2nd rounds benning paid for.

well hes 25 with more games under his belt than Burroughs, Clague, Mete, Hunt, Poolman.

And players have good and bad years. JT Miller was healthy scratched and in and out of the NYR lineup for the first 3 years of his NHL career. He was 22/23 at the time, but it happens.

I get that people could possibly see this as a Clendening 2.0, or a Vey/Baertschi 2.0, but lets give it more than 4 nhl games, and our new GM more than 4 months before we start with hysterics?
- Codes1087

"Everyone"... "Hysterics"... only one person in this entire thread has crossed that line in this discussion.

we know the path to the NHL by position isnt linear. Defenseman take longer, same with goalies. I am simply just saying, while I agree you can draw similarities between the vey/clendening/baertschi comparisons, you have to remember this is a new management. Let it play out a little bit. Its been 4 games. Id also like to point out that Demott has much more experience than any of those 2nd rounds benning paid for.
- Codes1087

I'm just over the age gap poop, trading mid round picks for other team's healthy scratches just doesn't seem like a sound strategy to me. Especially considering that the Leafs blueline isn't some powerhouse where you can say that "this guy is just a victim of playing on a stacked team". The Russian dman they picked up from Arizona is on their top pairing now.

If the player was younger, or playing on a more stacked roster, or the cost was more appropriate(like a random prospect or late pick), I'd be cool with it.

Why are we in this situation with a shallow prospect pool in the first place? Trading draft picks for other teams' scraps.
- Nucker101

Man, people are unlearning the past mistakes at light speed.