Completely different sports but what Poles did for the Bears, Davidson needs to do for the Hawks....you can't half ass a rebuild. YOu need to be committed and stick to it.

THe main issue here is that they have a lot of crap hockey players. NHL level and Rockford level that Bowman and his hockey ops department saddled Davidson with. Was it by choice or was Bowman forced to add to the pile of horse $hit last summer by upper management? No clue, don't care.....but it 100% set them back.

I don't see the point rolling out the same group next year because it's 1. insanity and 2. hampers their rebuild.

Why roll out S Jones, McCabe, Murphy, Strome, DeBrincat, Toews, Kane....they already missed out trading Kubalik so now they are going to have either let him walk for nothing OR bring him back....who is left that people/Davidson IS willing to trade that has value? That another team is going to want? That's my issue.

S Jones likely has an unmovable contract so he's likely not moving.....the rest should be shopped and highly considered. They need young building blocks and only way to get those is through trades and/or picks.

i get Fatty's point of having place holders but you may win the battle and shelter younger kids from minutes but you are losing the war as you are narrowing who you are willing to trade and to me....IMO...this team has ZERO right to be picky about who comes knocking and who Davidson says "untouchable" to another Gm....

He's saddled with NMC for Kane and Toews....and a 7 team no list for McCabe...because nobody loved giving out NMCs and NTCs like Bowman. Everyone else Davidson can wheel and deal and not have to check in with agents.

SHould have clearer direction by mid-July, but if they are rolling back the same group of veterans....that to me is just lip service and this team is still NOT committed to a rebuild.
- SteveRain

Rain, I agree with most of what you say here.

As we get further into this you really begin to realize just what a pile of crap Bowman left. It's mind boggling to think that without the Beach incident Bowman would be living high on the hog with his recent promotion and JC would maybe still be behind the bench.

The Jones trade and subsequent deal is bad on so many levels. You gave away futures and signed a guy who on his best day is average defensively, a while a bit better offensively, does not control a game, is not dynamic, does not scare anybody.
I don't think this is some McD/Wirtz PR ploy. Kekalainen had to be jumping with Joy when Stan offered that up and laughing his ass off when he saw what he re-signed him at. If Makar, Josi, Fox are worth $9M, Jones is worth around $6m. There are a lot of dumb GM's out there, but he is going to be tough if not impossible to move unless you want to give away a bunch of the very assets you are trying to accumulate.

The hard reality is that in a capped league where so many of the teams are right against the cap, moving slugs like Murphy, McCabe, etc. is tough because they are easily replaced at a fraction of the cost.

You want to know why deHaan, who was on an expiring contract, is still here after the trade deadline......because other teams can see that he is an overpaid, crappy player. Moving Murphy and McCabe who still have term left will be even harder. Don't expect much return.

I don't think its prudent to trade everyone - but you are correct that they need to move at least one veteran out.

More than likely - as some have pointed out here - the grumpy old man who still owns the team is going to make some demands in terms of hanging on to marketable assets. I think Patrick Kane chasing records is their new marketing theme.

Even if they move the rights for Kubalik for a 3rd or 4th that still has value.

Regarding trading for Kane or Debrincat - few options. Buffalo, Anaheim, Detroit, Montreal and Seattle all have enough draft capital to make that work and should still be bad enough next year that they get a 8-16 pick.

Lamoriello is hot for over the hill veteran players. Maybe taking back any one of those 5 million contracts and a first and third for a year of Toews gets them excited.

The trade with Tampa was a no brainer. I think they'll run into issues when they have to make decisions this summer on actual pieces and deal with the possibility of losing some trades.

Becuase sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie. And sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning and losing is all one big organic globule from which one extracts what one needs.
- fattybeef

The Hawks want to stockpile high picks in the hopes of a quick turnaround. The problem is, the few marketable assets they hold at this point have NMC/NTC's, and to waive are most likely going to want to go to a contender. Contenders have the problem that not only are the picks they have low, but most of them are up against if not over the cap, so adding big cap hits is not possible. Maybe you get a underperforming previous top pick like a LaFreniere or Kakko, but what gives you the warm fuzzies that they can turn it around...the previous track record like Perlini, Nylander and Koekkoek who have done so well?

Seider is a all around rock that helps you in all ways, BUT as much as I always hold back on praising offensivemen, Makar is a tiny rocket of a beast with the best pins in the league, and has everything a true defender needs too.

He seems to have one franking speed: overdrive.

Eventually this may catch up on him.

But the hawks will have to get lucky enough to draft both in the next 6 years....
- wiz1901

This is true but oh man is he fun to watch.

Probably once something happens to his knee - not dissimilar to Keith (Or Karlsson with his feet \ ankles) who was also heavily dependent on his physical gifts.

The Hawks want to stockpile high picks in the hopes of a quick turnaround. The problem is, the few marketable assets they hold at this point have NMC/NTC's, and to waive are most likely going to want to go to a contender. Contenders have the problem that not only are the picks they have low, but most of them are up against if not over the cap, so adding big cap hits is not possible. Maybe you get a underperforming previous top pick like a LaFreniere or Kakko, but what gives you the warm fuzzies that they can turn it around...the previous track record like Perlini, Nylander and Koekkoek who have done so well?
- TheTrob

I mentioned the teams you'd want to target who all have cap space, assets and may think they are close to winning and should still be mediocre enough next year that their 2023 pick would be in a decent spot. The Hawks could also take back a bad contract.

Obviously Kane and Toews are more complicated but Toews seems to have one foot out of the door already and may prefer to go somewhere else.

Debrincat does not have a NMC so they could move him if they wanted.

If Murhpy wasn't injured they could move him before his NMC kicks in. That was a opportunity missed.

This is true but oh man is he fun to watch.

Probably once something happens to his knee - not dissimilar to Keith (Or Karlsson with his feet \ ankles) who was also heavily dependent on his physical gifts.
- fattybeef

How exciting to watch even intrasquad practice games - in training camp though the players aren't yet in tip top shape - no checking so relish seeing BOTH MAKER AND BYRAM.

Poles made one major trade?
- Ztra

Traded mack, cut guys, didn't sign UFAs....they likely will have a top 3 pick and a MASSIVE amount of cap room next off-season. Bears are in a really good spot moving forward. That's before he potentially cuts Eddie Jackson next year if he doesn't bounce back.

I don't think its prudent to trade everyone - but you are correct that they need to move at least one veteran out.

More than likely - as some have pointed out here - the grumpy old man who still owns the team is going to make some demands in terms of hanging on to marketable assets. I think Patrick Kane chasing records is their new marketing theme.

Even if they move the rights for Kubalik for a 3rd or 4th that still has value.

Regarding trading for Kane or Debrincat - few options. Buffalo, Anaheim, Detroit, Montreal and Seattle all have enough draft capital to make that work and should still be bad enough next year that they get a 8-16 pick.

Lamoriello is hot for over the hill veteran players. Maybe taking back any one of those 5 million contracts and a first and third for a year of Toews gets them excited.

The trade with Tampa was a no brainer. I think they'll run into issues when they have to make decisions this summer on actual pieces and deal with the possibility of losing some trades.

Becuase sometimes when you win, you really lose. And sometimes when you lose, you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie. And sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning and losing is all one big organic globule from which one extracts what one needs.
- fattybeef

Yeah, I am sure Wirtz is flashing backs to his father and his grandfather trading stars and having 2nd thoughts....and you are likely right re Kane and that's fine...but they need to trade others because otherwise this is going to take a helluva lot longer to get good again as your margin for error on hitting on 1st round picks will essentially be ZERO.

I also noticed guess who has the LEAST amount of regulation wins this year in the NHL? The Chicago Blackhawks...they are THAT bad.

Hey Wiz. Call me naïve, but I'm bullish on several of the recent draft picks and young prospects. Galvas and Regula have shown in small samples that they can play without panic. I believe Mitchell will get there and his ceiling will end up "Letang-ish".

They recently drafted some size that has skill and/or talent as well in Allan, Del Maestro, Crevier, Kaiser and Vlasic.

With all of those options (and I'm sure some ultimately will be traded), I see the Hawks coming away with at least three really good players. As much as I think Stan had some immense faults, he had accumulated several intriguing prospects at positions that were sorely lacking.

Now, the forward group...
- Chunk

Eh, I think all of the blue line prospects on the Hawks have been vastly overrated and at the end of the day their value is about the same as the forward group. I know not many people here agree with me but the very good prospects play in the NHL immediately or close to it and look like they belong.

Just a bunch of interesting if they ever figure it out but probably not amounting to much type guys.

Their system hasn't produced a quality NHL defender since Hammer and they haven't sniffed a first pairing player since Keith.

Maybe you count Jokiharju? But they certainly didn't do anything but F around with him while he was here.

Rain, I agree with most of what you say here.

As we get further into this you really begin to realize just what a pile of crap Bowman left. It's mind boggling to think that without the Beach incident Bowman would be living high on the hog with his recent promotion and JC would maybe still be behind the bench.

The Jones trade and subsequent deal is bad on so many levels. You gave away futures and signed a guy who on his best day is average defensively, a while a bit better offensively, does not control a game, is not dynamic, does not scare anybody.
I don't think this is some McD/Wirtz PR ploy. Kekalainen had to be jumping with Joy when Stan offered that up and laughing his ass off when he saw what he re-signed him at. If Makar, Josi, Fox are worth $9M, Jones is worth around $6m. There are a lot of dumb GM's out there, but he is going to be tough if not impossible to move unless you want to give away a bunch of the very assets you are trying to accumulate.

The hard reality is that in a capped league where so many of the teams are right against the cap, moving slugs like Murphy, McCabe, etc. is tough because they are easily replaced at a fraction of the cost.

You want to know why deHaan, who was on an expiring contract, is still here after the trade deadline......because other teams can see that he is an overpaid, crappy player. Moving Murphy and McCabe who still have term left will be even harder. Don't expect much return.
- TheTrob

For whatever reason I dont remember much of Jones when he was in Nashville and outside of the Hawks playing Columbus throughout the years and the 1 year Columbus beat Tampa (think it was Panarin's 1st year) I really never watched them closely. Playoff Jones that year, was good.....but the more I see him on a nightly basis the only way he has a chance to succeed here is finding him a Hammer type partner who can cover his @ss when he goes in deep forechecking or extending the play. Without that type of partner, he is going to have to change his game which in turn reduces his value to the team of what his strengths are.....IMO....McCabe, DeHaan and hockey dumb Murphy aren't the answer.

I am 100% completely dumbfounded how Bowman held on this long. Have to think Beach incident had a play in it, but the fact Foley was allowed to openly praise Tallon on the airwaves and in his on ice speech.....tells me Bowman's name is used as a scapegoat at 1901 w madison. Which I get to a certain extent because the further we get away from the cup wins, the more you see what this team and organization are left with....desperation on retread 1st round picks throughout the years that bombed, european signings that he actually hit on (panarin, suter, kubalik)....but man the draft and his ufa signings are just pure garbage and has burried this team for the forseeable future.

However, all this happened under Wirtz's watch and until the day I die I will NEVER buy that Wirtz didn't know what was happening...Block had a great piece recently diving into that, and presenting both sides........So I am not going to pretend that Wirtz, same guy who signed off on promoting Stanley, didn't know what Stan's plan was reshaping this team and trying to keep money in Wirtz's pocket. THen likely panicked as he saw a black cloud of PR doom engulf his team and mandated they go make "splash" after splash to get the focus on the ice....only issue was Bowman had a highschool coach he refused to move on from sink that as well, along with players who just weren't good enough.

Once a wirtz, always a wirtz. They get a little more personable as generations come along, but the DNA is still there. Exactly why I am skittish on Danny Wirtz and all the praise he is getting....same happened with Rocky...and well...we saw how that panned out. Until I see a FULL commitment to a rebuild, all this is is lip service because all they care about is keeping @sses in the seats and if they win....it's a bonus.

Eh, I think all of the blue line prospects on the Hawks have been vastly overrated and at the end of the day their value is about the same as the forward group. I know not many people here agree with me but the very good prospects play in the NHL immediately or close to it and look like they belong.

Just a bunch of interesting if they ever figure it out but probably not amounting to much type guys.

Their system hasn't produced a quality NHL defender since Hammer and they haven't sniffed a first pairing player since Keith.

Maybe you count Jokiharju? But they certainly didn't do anything but F around with him while he was here.
- fattybeef

Excellent post.....


That was my point last week when asking who has this team developed recently that were building blocks? Going back 7+ years doesn't work for me as they were still trying to win.....

D men: to your point, and while I sit here and see the reasoning on the hatred of Jones, I get why they targeted him because they needed a new top pairing guy. However, to be a TRUE top pairing guy he needs a compotent partner which the Hawks sure as hell don't have on their roster TODAY.

The younger guys? I don't follow Rockford closely enough and even if I did does a guy hitting on all cylinders in Rockford=a sure thing in the show? IF he did, Marty St Pierre would be a sure bet for Toronto.

F: You could see flashes in Buff, Versteeg, Toews, Kane early on....Buff as a game in STL where you could see he could be a power forward, Versteeg in Arz.....Toews was early on when he was ripping wristers at the dot for goals...I had reservations about Kane, but exactly what Tallon said on why they drafted him....he had ZERO fear going to high areas for his size and to this day...how many times have we seen Kane take a yard sale? More than 1 time, but less than 10 since he came into the league.....

So that is EXACTLY why I push back a little when I am preached at regarding Dach and having patience....I think the kid can be a NHL player but I see him closer to a marcus Kruger, depth center, than I do to a Toews top 6 center...I hope am I wrong.

Sounds like Kayumov is going to sign with the Blackhawks

For whatever reason I dont remember much of Jones when he was in Nashville and outside of the Hawks playing Columbus throughout the years and the 1 year Columbus beat Tampa (think it was Panarin's 1st year) I really never watched them closely. Playoff Jones that year, was good.....but the more I see him on a nightly basis the only way he has a chance to succeed here is finding him a Hammer type partner who can cover his @ss when he goes in deep forechecking or extending the play. Without that type of partner, he is going to have to change his game which in turn reduces his value to the team of what his strengths are.....IMO....McCabe, DeHaan and hockey dumb Murphy aren't the answer.

I am 100% completely dumbfounded how Bowman held on this long. Have to think Beach incident had a play in it, but the fact Foley was allowed to openly praise Tallon on the airwaves and in his on ice speech.....tells me Bowman's name is used as a scapegoat at 1901 w madison. Which I get to a certain extent because the further we get away from the cup wins, the more you see what this team and organization are left with....desperation on retread 1st round picks throughout the years that bombed, european signings that he actually hit on (panarin, suter, kubalik)....but man the draft and his ufa signings are just pure garbage and has burried this team for the forseeable future.

However, all this happened under Wirtz's watch and until the day I die I will NEVER buy that Wirtz didn't know what was happening...Block had a great piece recently diving into that, and presenting both sides........So I am not going to pretend that Wirtz, same guy who signed off on promoting Stanley, didn't know what Stan's plan was reshaping this team and trying to keep money in Wirtz's pocket. THen likely panicked as he saw a black cloud of PR doom engulf his team and mandated they go make "splash" after splash to get the focus on the ice....only issue was Bowman had a highschool coach he refused to move on from sink that as well, along with players who just weren't good enough.

Once a wirtz, always a wirtz. They get a little more personable as generations come along, but the DNA is still there. Exactly why I am skittish on Danny Wirtz and all the praise he is getting....same happened with Rocky...and well...we saw how that panned out. Until I see a FULL commitment to a rebuild, all this is is lip service because all they care about is keeping @sses in the seats and if they win....it's a bonus.
- SteveRain

If Danny gets 3 Cups in 6 years that is all that is important. Rocky did that, Bill didn't.

Sounds like Kayumov is going to sign with the Blackhawks
- BetweenTheDots

jhawk59 will be upset. One less spot on the 50 man roster to sign McLaughlin to a NHL contract.

This got me looking up more info on him. 2nd round pick in 2016 (from Carolina as part of the Bickell/Teuvo trade).

Then I decided to look at the full 2016 draft class. Cat was a 2nd round pick too that year. The rest , meh.

If anyone wants to reminiesce about other Hawk draft classes, here they are.

https://www.hockeydb.com/...aft/teams/dr00005218.html

For whatever reason I dont remember much of Jones when he was in Nashville and outside of the Hawks playing Columbus throughout the years and the 1 year Columbus beat Tampa (think it was Panarin's 1st year) I really never watched them closely. Playoff Jones that year, was good.....but the more I see him on a nightly basis the only way he has a chance to succeed here is finding him a Hammer type partner who can cover his @ss when he goes in deep forechecking or extending the play. Without that type of partner, he is going to have to change his game which in turn reduces his value to the team of what his strengths are.....IMO....McCabe, DeHaan and hockey dumb Murphy aren't the answer.

I am 100% completely dumbfounded how Bowman held on this long. Have to think Beach incident had a play in it, but the fact Foley was allowed to openly praise Tallon on the airwaves and in his on ice speech.....tells me Bowman's name is used as a scapegoat at 1901 w madison. Which I get to a certain extent because the further we get away from the cup wins, the more you see what this team and organization are left with....desperation on retread 1st round picks throughout the years that bombed, european signings that he actually hit on (panarin, suter, kubalik)....but man the draft and his ufa signings are just pure garbage and has burried this team for the forseeable future.

However, all this happened under Wirtz's watch and until the day I die I will NEVER buy that Wirtz didn't know what was happening...Block had a great piece recently diving into that, and presenting both sides........So I am not going to pretend that Wirtz, same guy who signed off on promoting Stanley, didn't know what Stan's plan was reshaping this team and trying to keep money in Wirtz's pocket. THen likely panicked as he saw a black cloud of PR doom engulf his team and mandated they go make "splash" after splash to get the focus on the ice....only issue was Bowman had a highschool coach he refused to move on from sink that as well, along with players who just weren't good enough.

Once a wirtz, always a wirtz. They get a little more personable as generations come along, but the DNA is still there. Exactly why I am skittish on Danny Wirtz and all the praise he is getting....same happened with Rocky...and well...we saw how that panned out. Until I see a FULL commitment to a rebuild, all this is is lip service because all they care about is keeping @sses in the seats and if they win....it's a bonus.
- SteveRain

You are excluding what influence McDonough had in keeping the players too long/bringing them back. Although McDonough might have helped screw the pooch as far as the on-ice product became, no arguing he put a lot of cash into Wirtz's pocket in addition to increasing the value of the team many fold.

Eh, I think all of the blue line prospects on the Hawks have been vastly overrated and at the end of the day their value is about the same as the forward group. I know not many people here agree with me but the very good prospects play in the NHL immediately or close to it and look like they belong.

Just a bunch of interesting if they ever figure it out but probably not amounting to much type guys.

Their system hasn't produced a quality NHL defender since Hammer and they haven't sniffed a first pairing player since Keith.

Maybe you count Jokiharju? But they certainly didn't do anything but F around with him while he was here.
- fattybeef

Funny you bring up hammer who took some time to develop in the A, same with Keith

Watching Mitchell last night by far was the Hogs best dman

Eh, I think all of the blue line prospects on the Hawks have been vastly overrated and at the end of the day their value is about the same as the forward group. I know not many people here agree with me but the very good prospects play in the NHL immediately or close to it and look like they belong.

Just a bunch of interesting if they ever figure it out but probably not amounting to much type guys.

Their system hasn't produced a quality NHL defender since Hammer and they haven't sniffed a first pairing player since Keith.

Maybe you count Jokiharju? But they certainly didn't do anything but F around with him while he was here.
- fattybeef

In what way? No one has said any of them are the second coming of Keith. At best there have been comparisons to the TYPE of game they play.

Have Galvas and Regula not acquitted themselves well in their NHL showings thus far? Has Vlasic not shown that his positioning is solid and that he makes smart plays? The knocks on Allan and Del Mastro have been that they were defense first players. They have both improved their offense this year while maintaining their defensive prowess. Mitchell started well then faded. He has raised his game while playing in the AHL this year.

These kids are 18-21 years old.

Sounds like Kayumov is going to sign with the Blackhawks
- BetweenTheDots

This Kayumov? Rocky just may be just signing the checks at this point.

This Kayumov? Rocky just may be just signing the checks at this point.


- Rota's Rooter

Yep that's the one, hahaha

Yep that's the one, hahaha
- BetweenTheDots

Won't have to replace the first letter on jersey #8, another cost savings for the Hawks, besides replacing Kubalik with a less expensive (by $3 mil. Kubalik)

Sounds like Kayumov is going to sign with the Blackhawks
- BetweenTheDots

I’m sure that Ogie is celebrating right about now.

Funny you bring up hammer who took some time to develop in the A, same with Keith

Watching Mitchell last night by far was the Hogs best dman
- BetweenTheDots

Keith was certainly not a finished product NHL year one. His first year especially was hilarious when you think about what he accomplished later though it was apparent his physical tools were exceptional. Not sure what the AHL did for him other than prolong his development curve.

There wasn't room on the roster for Hammer so he had to wait would look awful on this team since his only zone exit move was a tap pass to Toews in the middle of the slot or ripping it around the boards. Hate to say it but guys who can block shots and take abuse are a dime a dozen. Hammer blackhawks fans are about as bad as the aaron rowand whitesox crowd from 20 years ago.

Late bloomers happen but isn't especially common for building pieces. Seabrook looked like a NHL player day one.

The better defenders in the league (especially in recent history) are ready to contribute with little or no AHL time. One year max. Makar, Byram, Fox, Hughes, Dobson, Hanafin, McAvoy - no AHL time, Seider went there and back again but still only 49 AHL games played and looks pretty good as a 20 year old. Bouchard did something similar where it was one AHL year and then a quick trip to Europe.

Typically, it takes 2-3 full seasons in the NHL regardless of AHL time spent for good players to find their legs.

If they have NHL level talent they should be playing in the NHL to get through those 2-3 years of figuring it out sooner since time spent in the AHL does not alter that curve. If they don't have the self confidence to get through the bumps then congratulations on selecting a player that probably isn't going to amount to anything regardless of how much AHL time they get.

Not a whole lot of Gustov Forsling success stories in the NHL but it could happen.

In what way? No one has said any of them are the second coming of Keith. At best there have been comparisons to the TYPE of game they play.

Have Galvas and Regula not acquitted themselves well in their NHL showings thus far? Has Vlasic not shown that his positioning is solid and that he makes smart plays? The knocks on Allan and Del Mastro have been that they were defense first players. They have both improved their offense this year while maintaining their defensive prowess. Mitchell started well then faded. He has raised his game while playing in the AHL this year.

These kids are 18-21 years old.
- Chunk

They need building blocks though. Keith or Seabrook type impact players. Not guys who are fine, those are a dime a dozen and I happen to think that not many of these players they drafted will stick in the NHL.

They need building blocks though. Keith or Seabrook type impact players. Not guys who are fine, those are a dime a dozen and I happen to think that not many of these players they drafted will stick in the NHL.
- fattybeef

God forbid anyone says that!

You are excluding what influence McDonough had in keeping the players too long/bringing them back. Although McDonough might have helped screw the pooch as far as the on-ice product became, no arguing he put a lot of cash into Wirtz's pocket in addition to increasing the value of the team many fold.
- LAHawk

Didn't somebody say there was a meeting around '16 Stan wanted to talk rebuild and McD's #2 quashed it?

God forbid anyone says that!
- rpeters01

OK a quarter a dozen due to inflation?