OK a quarter a dozen due to inflation?
- LAHawk

My favorite is "just a guy."

My favorite is "just a guy."
- rpeters01

he's Just a Guy
weight of a Bat on his shoulder
will he swing or will he walk?

Just a Guy
weight of the world on his shoulders
will he stand still or will he run around the block

Hey Wiz. Call me naïve, but I'm bullish on several of the recent draft picks and young prospects. Galvas and Regula have shown in small samples that they can play without panic. I believe Mitchell will get there and his ceiling will end up "Letang-ish".

They recently drafted some size that has skill and/or talent as well in Allan, Del Maestro, Crevier, Kaiser and Vlasic.

With all of those options (and I'm sure some ultimately will be traded), I see the Hawks coming away with at least three really good players. As much as I think Stan had some immense faults, he had accumulated several intriguing prospects at positions that were sorely lacking.
Now, the forward group...
- Chunk

No, I have no problem at all with most of their dee - kids, and it is easier to develop when your game partners you with a strong partner, a good front line of defensively able forwards.
Of course the priority is drafting scoring up front. Not beef, not quickness, but snipers.

I was just looking at the bad team at present, and the event drafting high for a few years, and sometimes, the it comes their time to get up at the microphone, the best player may be an overwhelming attacking defenseman that with luck, becomes your poor man's Makar.

Back to confidence....you notice hoe regal suddenly played like he belonged after those chances and scores?
All those kids in the system need similar good fortunes and perseverance.

Say they draft 6th in 2023, I don't see them taking a defender over sniper forward, regardless of mocks.

Excellent post.....


That was my point last week when asking who has this team developed recently that were building blocks? Going back 7+ years doesn't work for me as they were still trying to win.....

D men: to your point, and while I sit here and see the reasoning on the hatred of Jones, I get why they targeted him because they needed a new top pairing guy. However, to be a TRUE top pairing guy he needs a compotent partner which the Hawks sure as hell don't have on their roster TODAY.

The younger guys? I don't follow Rockford closely enough and even if I did does a guy hitting on all cylinders in Rockford=a sure thing in the show? IF he did, Marty St Pierre would be a sure bet for Toronto.

F: You could see flashes in Buff, Versteeg, Toews, Kane early on....Buff as a game in STL where you could see he could be a power forward, Versteeg in Arz.....Toews was early on when he was ripping wristers at the dot for goals...I had reservations about Kane, but exactly what Tallon said on why they drafted him....he had ZERO fear going to high areas for his size and to this day...how many times have we seen Kane take a yard sale? More than 1 time, but less than 10 since he came into the league.....

So that is EXACTLY why I push back a little when I am preached at regarding Dach and having patience....I think the kid can be a NHL player but I see him closer to a marcus Kruger, depth center, than I do to a Toews top 6 center...I hope am I wrong.
- SteveRain

I followed Jones when he was drafted, when he was in Nash, when he moved to CLB and now seeing it every game in CHI. I tend to value defenseman based on their ability to play in their own end first, then what they bring to the table offensively. Understanding that in some cases, the offensive ability overweighs the lack of actual defensive ability. At no point in his career has Jones ever really moved the needle for me. While he is not an outright disaster in his own zone, is he ever really much better than average? He doesn't read plays necessarily well, he is not a good 1-on-1 defender, he is not particularly strong along the boards, and for a well as he can skate for a guy his size, he is far too often either flat footed, or just beaten to by opponents who he should be able to dominate. On the offensive side, he doesn't possess a great shot or one that anyone fears (think Shea Weber, Chara, etc), doesn't have particularly great hands or great passing ability and doesn't use what may be his best asset, his skating, to really any type of consistent advantage.

Think of D-men other teams fear and are aware of or game planning against. Guys like Hedman, Makar, Josi, Fox, Carlson, Q. Hughes and others. Jones just isn't on that list. He's just "a guy" who Stan saw fit to pay like the top of the position.

Is he a top pairing guy.....sure, is he truly a #1.....no. His market value should be more in line with $6.5 - $7 mil, not $9.5M. And the strawman argument that he needs a competent partner to be a top-pairing guy just doesn't float with me. By virtue of your offensive or defensive ability (or both) you become a top pairing guy, those guys I mentioned above and a few others like Doughty, Seider, McAvoy are top pairing guys regardless of their partner.

Funny you bring up hammer who took some time to develop in the A, same with Keith

Watching Mitchell last night by far was the Hogs best dman
- BetweenTheDots

...and a kid who has the smarts to know when to jump up into the attack, generate chances, but you do not see that part of his game until he is NHL comfortable, confident, and so far we saw his face after faux pas, and he was immediately feeling the mistakes.
There is time.

I followed Jones when he was drafted, when he was in Nash, when he moved to CLB and now seeing it every game in CHI. I tend to value defenseman based on their ability to play in their own end first, then what they bring to the table offensively. Understanding that in some cases, the offensive ability overweighs the lack of actual defensive ability. At no point in his career has Jones ever really moved the needle for me. While he is not an outright disaster in his own zone, is he ever really much better than average? He doesn't read plays necessarily well, he is not a good 1-on-1 defender, he is not particularly strong along the boards, and for a well as he can skate for a guy his size, he is far too often either flat footed, or just beaten to by opponents who he should be able to dominate. On the offensive side, he doesn't possess a great shot or one that anyone fears (think Shea Weber, Chara, etc), doesn't have particularly great hands or great passing ability and doesn't use what may be his best asset, his skating, to really any type of consistent advantage.

Think of D-men other teams fear and are aware of or game planning against. Guys like Hedman, Makar, Josi, Fox, Carlson, Q. Hughes and others. Jones just isn't on that list. He's just "a guy" who Stan saw fit to pay like the top of the position.

Is he a top pairing guy.....sure, is he truly a #1.....no. His market value should be more in line with $6.5 - $7 mil, not $9.5M. And the strawman argument that he needs a competent partner to be a top-pairing guy just doesn't float with me. By virtue of your offensive or defensive ability (or both) you become a top pairing guy, those guys I mentioned above and a few others like Doughty, Seider, McAvoy are top pairing guys regardless of their partner.
- TheTrob

Doughty away from Alec Martinez is definitely not the same defenseman as with Alec Martinez.

They need building blocks though. Keith or Seabrook type impact players. Not guys who are fine, those are a dime a dozen and I happen to think that not many of these players they drafted will stick in the NHL.
- fattybeef

At 18-19 years old you know that these kids will only be "fine"?

What is the second bolded based on? That they haven't "looked like they belong" yet?

You are excluding what influence McDonough had in keeping the players too long/bringing them back. Although McDonough might have helped screw the pooch as far as the on-ice product became, no arguing he put a lot of cash into Wirtz's pocket in addition to increasing the value of the team many fold.
- LAHawk

It's funny you say that...that name hasn't come up in a LONG time....so I am sure he tied an air tight NDA, and in part of that the Hawks don't defame his name and he stays dark....which further cements my belief he took the bullet to keep Wirtz out of the report considering that report was voluntary....amazing how that works.

Doughty away from Alec Martinez is definitely not the same defenseman as with Alec Martinez.
- LAHawk

Thats true LA, in the same way that neither Seabrook or Keith were the same player with different partners, but you could easily make a case for either of them as being top pairing guys. Obviously once they aged and their skills and health declined they were top pairing only in the sense that "they are better than anything else we have".

So, sure, Jones is a top pairing guy here (and on a bunch of teams) by default.

I don't wanna be paying my top D by default, he should earn it.

Sounds like Kayumov is going to sign with the Blackhawks
- BetweenTheDots

It is nice to think the draft slot wasn't wasn't completely since the board had a few nice North American prospects when they selected him.

I always thought it was get a skiled guy for later type pick.

He kills penalties, and comes from a Russian Junior program that honed his two way game under a coach who rarely used him up in the top six, related him to the 3rd line and then when losing let him play with the skilled guys.

So I will make the assumption without watching one of his pro games this year that he is can help the offense and not hurt this team defensively when he is acclimated.

Back to young guys improving. I can think of dozens of bad teams who added young junior stars in the first round (not necessarily top five picks) and there was little impact because of the surrounding nucleus.

On the other hand there is a fine chance that in the next four seasons they snag Dylan Larkin types adds (Mid first round additions) that bring enough speed and skill to elevate the group.
Drafting at forward makes the entire backline and frontline better IF the forwards play a strong two game that Crawford is trying to instill.

Maybe when we are in rocking chairs, some strong all angled true expose of a book or documentary will get made that actually reveals the truthfulness of each and every body organization guys involvement.

Personally, I like that Joel Q. at very least had an opinion of how he thought this type publicity could slow the snowball roll going into the playoffs.

It is the snake-like organization's fellows who lie in the holes still not revealed that will trouble many until the story is out and whole.

I followed Jones when he was drafted, when he was in Nash, when he moved to CLB and now seeing it every game in CHI. I tend to value defenseman based on their ability to play in their own end first, then what they bring to the table offensively. Understanding that in some cases, the offensive ability overweighs the lack of actual defensive ability. At no point in his career has Jones ever really moved the needle for me. While he is not an outright disaster in his own zone, is he ever really much better than average? He doesn't read plays necessarily well, he is not a good 1-on-1 defender, he is not particularly strong along the boards, and for a well as he can skate for a guy his size, he is far too often either flat footed, or just beaten to by opponents who he should be able to dominate. On the offensive side, he doesn't possess a great shot or one that anyone fears (think Shea Weber, Chara, etc), doesn't have particularly great hands or great passing ability and doesn't use what may be his best asset, his skating, to really any type of consistent advantage.

Think of D-men other teams fear and are aware of or game planning against. Guys like Hedman, Makar, Josi, Fox, Carlson, Q. Hughes and others. Jones just isn't on that list. He's just "a guy" who Stan saw fit to pay like the top of the position.

Is he a top pairing guy.....sure, is he truly a #1.....no. His market value should be more in line with $6.5 - $7 mil, not $9.5M. And the strawman argument that he needs a competent partner to be a top-pairing guy just doesn't float with me. By virtue of your offensive or defensive ability (or both) you become a top pairing guy, those guys I mentioned above and a few others like Doughty, Seider, McAvoy are top pairing guys regardless of their partner.
- TheTrob

I would just say sitting in section 320 for years and watching Keith throw panic bombs to Seabrook, who might be the one of the best d man Ive seen handle pressure with guys bearing down on him and not turning it over.....the argument of having a compotent partner to me is valid. Without Seabrook for all those years....Keith is great, but his career 100% would have turned out differently. Keith was a great skater, and very good stick checker/gap control...but his shot was a joke, and his passing was OK....if hindsight is 20/20, Seabrook may go down as the most underrated/under appreciated/most important part of the core they had.

It's the same argument for a guy like Toews who needs skill on his line to maximize his talent...hossa, saad, etc...when Toews doesn't have skill, toews suffers. You have generational talents, and you have great players....I think Jones play would be night and day if he had a prime Hammer covering his @ss to allow him to do what he did...much like Hammer did with Campbell and Oduya.

Jones to your point has his warts....but at best there's him...............and then there is Murphy who is a poor man's #4......and there is a pile of crap ranging in 5-press box d men.

Maybe when we are in rocking chairs, some strong all angled true expose of a book or documentary will get made that actually reveals the truthfulness of each and every body organization guys involvement.

Personally, I like that Joel Q. at very least had an opinion of how he thought this type publicity could slow the snowball roll going into the playoffs.

It is the snake-like organization's fellows who lie in the holes still not revealed that will trouble many until the story is out and whole.
- wiz1901

We as fans will never know the deal. Media has tried for months to get a hold of McDonough and he won't do any press. he's taking it to the grave, and I am sure his family was/is instructed the same in fear of legal retribution from the Wirtz's....so in turn McDonough got a nice payout to disappear. Almost like he never existed...and I am curious moving forward how this organization honors that team as they retire numbers, etc.......will be fascinating to watch them tip toe around John McDonough and Stan Bowman's names.

Back to a defensive rebuild:

Seabrook was injured before his draft and lasted until#14, but already possessed enough defensive acumen to play quickly.

As I have said many a time, when I first saw Duncan Keith at his size, I simply couldn't wrap myself around this little super quick guy handling the defensive side.
(Heck I think Jhawk59 would email every month saying he was cons=cerned about the Hawks home plate area in front of the goalie and how Keith would be useless to clear it.). I said he need to be up front at centre!?!

But they helped solidify an NHL defense at the top, and then the hawks filled in with vets by signings and prospects.

The islanders didn't use high selections and a few years back DEVELOPED Devon Toews (4th round #108), Adam Pelech (3rd rd., 6th overall) and Ryan Pulock (15th overall), and the guy who might had been a hawk pick and stifling a Seth Jones move), Noah Dotson (12th overall)

Sidenote: Someone here argued long & hard that Dotson should be the selection because of size, feet, work horse ability in the QMJHL...who was it?)

Did they win a ton of playoff series?
nope
Are they in the playoffs?
nope

They rebuilt the defense.
And we are a good team to see they were successful, so sandwiched around forward positions you need Rockford & prospect pool success and maybe more shots at find quality talent in future first rounds (like with the Lightning first rounders)

I would just say sitting in section 320 for years and watching Keith throw panic bombs to Seabrook, who might be the one of the best d man Ive seen handle pressure with guys bearing down on him and not turning it over.....the argument of having a compotent partner to me is valid. Without Seabrook for all those years....Keith is great, but his career 100% would have turned out differently. Keith was a great skater, and very good stick checker/gap control...but his shot was a joke, and his passing was OK....if hindsight is 20/20, Seabrook may go down as the most underrated/under appreciated/most important part of the core they had.

It's the same argument for a guy like Toews who needs skill on his line to maximize his talent...hossa, saad, etc...when Toews doesn't have skill, toews suffers. You have generational talents, and you have great players....I think Jones play would be night and day if he had a prime Hammer covering his @ss to allow him to do what he did...much like Hammer did with Campbell and Oduya.

Jones to your point has his warts....but at best there's him...............and then there is Murphy who is a poor man's #4......and there is a pile of crap ranging in 5-press box d men.
- SteveRain

Of course Jones would be better with a competent partner. But my point still stands, even with a competent partner is Jones the kind of dynamic offensive player and star who you sink $9.5M into? IMO he is not even close. His best season he put up 16 goals and 57 points. This year with arguably less talent around him than he had at NSH and/or CLB, will be his best assists wise and second best scoring wise at around 50ish points. Nice numbers, top pairing....sure, worthy of top of the league money.....no. Nobody in the league fears S. Jones in any aspect of his game.

That contract most likely makes him completely untradeable.

And on a similar front the money and term given to Murphy and McCabe may be easier to move, but you sure aren't getting much a return for either. I also believe that deHaan is still here not because KD couldn't get enough for him but because nobody offered ANYTHING for him.

Like it or not, correct or incorrect, Seth Jones was the high skilled work horse that can eat minutes and has elite skills, and the team had NO one able to do this, so they plugged a gap maybe because they truly thought the group COULD win, or because they figured this missing position would haunt progress.

Of course Jones would be better with a competent partner. But my point still stands, even with a competent partner is Jones the kind of dynamic offensive player and star who you sink $9.5M into? IMO he is not even close. His best season he put up 16 goals and 57 points. This year with arguably less talent around him than he had at NSH and/or CLB, will be his best assists wise and second best scoring wise at around 50ish points. Nice numbers, top pairing....sure, worthy of top of the league money.....no. Nobody in the league fears S. Jones in any aspect of his game.

That contract most likely makes him completely untradeable.

And on a similar front the money and term given to Murphy and McCabe may be easier to move, but you sure aren't getting much a return for either. I also believe that deHaan is still here not because KD couldn't get enough for him but because nobody offered ANYTHING for him.
- TheTrob

The only issue that I have with Jones is his $9.5M AAV. Like Wiz mentioned, that’s about $2.5M too much. The Hawks will dress a decent set of defensemen in a couple of years, there’s definitely quantity there, and some quality will rise to the top. For those expecting a Makar out of this group, that ain’t happening, the Makar’s of the world only come along every twenty years or so. We all know that this team needs to rebuild the forward group, not only with skill, but 200’ forwards have to be part of it.

Using logic
* Strome is here only until another center through trade/sign/ more likely a #1 draft choice replaces
* You have expectation Dach eventually is your #2 center. Reichel fits in on a top two lines. Kurashev will never be consistent and will move on just don't know how soon. Lafferty is bottom lines not a center and R Johnson should only be a spare or injury replacement.
* McLaughlin ideally is my hope to win out and actually be a strong contributor both ends of ice. He has skill, skating, smarts, plays defensively, will not be intimidated to battle through. He could mesh with hard workers too like Alty and Barret
* You very well may be correct at least initially he has a big challenge to receive plaYing time. Reiterate I hope he wins out. If you have R Johnson for his role as the less skilled player, then certainly McLaughlin is a reserve skill guy but will play both ends of ice. We do not have skill centers in the pipeline other than wing/center Reichel.
- jhawk59

McLovin doesn’t even show up as a hawk property I believe he isn’t only signed to an ice hog contract

Of course Jones would be better with a competent partner. But my point still stands, even with a competent partner is Jones the kind of dynamic offensive player and star who you sink $9.5M into? IMO he is not even close. His best season he put up 16 goals and 57 points. This year with arguably less talent around him than he had at NSH and/or CLB, will be his best assists wise and second best scoring wise at around 50ish points. Nice numbers, top pairing....sure, worthy of top of the league money.....no. Nobody in the league fears S. Jones in any aspect of his game.

That contract most likely makes him completely untradeable.

And on a similar front the money and term given to Murphy and McCabe may be easier to move, but you sure aren't getting much a return for either. I also believe that deHaan is still here not because KD couldn't get enough for him but because nobody offered ANYTHING for him.
- TheTrob

I hear you on the money and this likely could be this decade's version of the Brian Campbell signing when they overpaid him at the time. I am sure to get Jones to sign on for a rebuild they had to overpay...only thing that remotely makes sense if I am giving Bowman benefit of the doubt.....


I agree on Dehaan...we both agree he's horrid. Missed a chance to get anything for him and what they may have been offered...they likely passed on to keep a kid in rockford in turn.

I just can't see how both McCabe and Murphy are back next year. 1 has to go, and ideally both are gone.....but I am going to mentally prepare for both to be back....

I really want to think Kd will/would blow this sky, but to make them relevant to people who need "star power" to watch games....I just feel they won't. So in turn it puts a helluva lot more pressure on the organization and player to make sure Dach and Reichel hit....and hit soon.

I would just say sitting in section 320 for years and watching Keith throw panic bombs to Seabrook, who might be the one of the best d man Ive seen handle pressure with guys bearing down on him and not turning it over.....the argument of having a compotent partner to me is valid. Without Seabrook for all those years....Keith is great, but his career 100% would have turned out differently. Keith was a great skater, and very good stick checker/gap control...but his shot was a joke, and his passing was OK....if hindsight is 20/20, Seabrook may go down as the most underrated/under appreciated/most important part of the core they had.

It's the same argument for a guy like Toews who needs skill on his line to maximize his talent...hossa, saad, etc...when Toews doesn't have skill, toews suffers. You have generational talents, and you have great players....I think Jones play would be night and day if he had a prime Hammer covering his @ss to allow him to do what he did...much like Hammer did with Campbell and Oduya.

Jones to your point has his warts....but at best there's him...............and then there is Murphy who is a poor man's #4......and there is a pile of crap ranging in 5-press box d men.
- SteveRain

I agree 100% with the bolded, Seabrook was a rock and in my book more valuable than Keith. That being said they did compliment each other, but no Seabrook, no Norris for Keith.

I agree 100% with the bolded, Seabrook was a rock and in my book more valuable than Keith. That being said they did compliment each other, but no Seabrook, no Norris for Keith.
- Angotti

Take out the power play minutes, I would guess their time on ice was equal during the Cup runs.

I just read the powers article on the athletic.

Remember I was one advocating taking Colton Dach in the draft and had him as our second second behind my Stillman brother and Boucher son selections.

I loved the kid, said maybe you just take him late in the first even.

The exclusion for the Powers article is the up/down play with the more goals than Kirby in his final junior year as the up, and the down being the negatives not mention in this hype/hope piece by Powers.
Shot and edge and wingspan are pluses.
I still see decision making, ability to be an NHL passer and his boot mechanics as things still needing to be addressed in development.

My main concern are his feet, as his his skating posture/stance causes him to be struggling with consistently pushing his knees over his toes.making his weight is over my heels, and a high center of gravity. So smaller guys can leverage him steal pucks.
Remember the critique on our Nylander's lack of cross-overs in his skating? Color Colton similar unless he improves...he reaches instead of getting closer to the puck. So this wide stride, heel kick and short extensions all contribute to whether he gets to NHL level. Is he getting better at his decision-making?
So, his playmaking opportunities are tied to his improvement in skating hitiches.

Here is hoping, because I am a big fan.

I know he likely isn't long for this team, but I feel for Borgstrom. Guy has to have just no confidence left at this point.

DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Kubalik-Toews-TJohnson
Kurashev-Lafferty-Raddysh
Borgstrom-RJohnson-Katchouk

I know he likely isn't long for this team, but I feel for Borgstrom. Guy has to have just no confidence left at this point.

DeBrincat-Strome-Kane
Kubalik-Toews-TJohnson
Kurashev-Lafferty-Raddysh
Borgstrom-RJohnson-Katchouk
- Chunk

He hasn't exactly made any impression when he was given the opportunity. He had first crack between ADB and Kane before Strome did.

He hasn't exactly made any impression when he was given the opportunity. He had first crack between ADB and Kane before Strome did.
- LAHawk

Oh, I know. It's on him regardless. I just think he's got to be in a horrible spot mentally where he can't even crack this lineup.