After next season chabots salary skyrockets plus him starting to be unhappy about all the losing. He may become a trade chip. As unthinkable as it sounds.
- spazzbot

Nothing is unthinkable... but a number of things would have to come together to make it even remotely feasible. Sanderson would have to emerge in the next 1-2 years as at least Chabot's equal, if not a better long-term #1D. At least one of Brannstrom/Thomson would have to emerge as a legitimate PP-QB, with 40pts-50pts upside. Chabot would probably have to be disgruntled well beyond anything we've seen, and the trade return would have to be first-class. Plus, it wouldn't happen for at least a year, with Chabot scheduled to earn just $4M in actual $$$. However, beyond that he'd be earning $9.2M/yr for the following 5 years, 4 of which are NTC-protected. Now I'm a pretty big fan of Chabot, and believe he could play his entire career in a Senators jersey... but objectively, that's Hedman, Josi, and Makar contract territory, for a d-man who's averaged just 50pts/season over the past 3 years. At the very least, you'd have to re-evaluate your roster after next season, and make sure his contract still made sense in the context of of the team's direction.

I proposed trading him at this year's dead line.
An unpopular opinion, but his age is out of synch with the rest of the youth. By the time they are peaking he will be in decline. Other good D men in the pipe. We could have maximized value this year by trading him.
- Octavarium

Wouldn't that make Chabot that high value veteran/leadership presence everybody keeps talking about?

That's far too much to be giving up... especially on a team that's already nearly a full goal/GP behind the scoring pace of the top-1/4 teams of the league. If Chabot & Sanderson isn't enough of a blue line foundation for this team, then they should upgrade one of them... not sabotage their top-6 forwards. I'm also curious about your persistent dismissal of Norris... the guy just keeps over-achieving vs. people's expectations, and yet still gets disrespected. Honestly... he's not only the best face-off player on the team, but took more than 400 more faceoffs than anyone on the team... and just hit 35G faster than Hossa. I'm all for beefing up the 2nd line by letting Giroux help Stutzle, but make no mistake - Norris is miles ahead of Stutzle in terms of his all-round game as a C in the NHL.
- khawk

I was born in Montreal and lived there long enough to see the trio of Robinson, Savard and Lapointe in action and let me tell you that it is difficult to imagine the impact such a D makes on a team. That's why I drool at the thought of Chabot, Sanderson and Seider but I know it's just fantasy and will never happen.

I don't dismiss Norris. I like him and am happy to have him on the team. I just think an 18% + shooting percentage is not sustainable. As far as faceoffs go he's been in that 51 to 52 percent range the last couple of years which is quite fine but nothing spectacular.

I just worry about seriously overpaying a guy who probably will be your second line center just like they have overpayed his buddy, the guy who is legitimately your second line LW. How do you win multiple Cups or even a single Cup with those two best buddies blocking the emergence and retention of an actual first line? It sounds harsh even to me but I'm still pissed off at Tkachuk for the contract stunt he pulled and think he's going to encourage Norris to do the same thing. These are second line guys on a good team and you can't pay second line guys 8 million if you want a good, contending team.

I was born in Montreal and lived there long enough to see the trio of Robinson, Savard and Lapointe in action and let me tell you that it is difficult to imagine the impact such a D makes on a team. That's why I drool at the thought of Chabot, Sanderson and Seider but I know it's just fantasy and will never happen.

I don't dismiss Norris. I like him and am happy to have him on the team. I just think an 18% + shooting percentage is not sustainable. As far as faceoffs go he's been in that 51 to 52 percent range the last couple of years which is quite fine but nothing spectacular.

I just worry about seriously overpaying a guy who probably will be your second line center just like they have overpayed his buddy, the guy who is legitimately your second line LW. How do you win multiple Cups or even a single Cup with those two best buddies blocking the emergence and retention of an actual first line? It sounds harsh even to me but I'm still pissed off at Tkachuk for the contract stunt he pulled and think he's going to encourage Norris to do the same thing. These are second line guys on a good team and you can't pay second line guys 8 million if you want a good, contending team.
- Whatisavailable

I think your comments on three dominant Dmen are right on.

Not sure I agree with your concerns on the Tkachuk contract. Cap is going up to $96m over the next 24 months (about 17%). Effectively, Tkachuk's deal would be the equivalent of about $6.8m on the $82m cap. Term is a different issue and I think teams take an enormous risk in giving anyone other than a superstar near maximum term.

Tkachuk finished the season as the Sens leading scorer and his contract along with Chabot's imposes a ceiling and bench mark for the other young guys looking for new deals.

If the Sens can keep their top guns under the umbrella created by the Tkachuk and Chabot contracts...they will be in great shape going forward.

The offset to these pipe dreams is attendance needs to get up to or beyond an average of 17k per game starting this October.

I think your comments on three dominant Dmen are right on.

Not sure I agree with your concerns on the Tkachuk contract. Cap is going up to $96m over the next 24 months (about 17%). Effectively, Tkachuk's deal would be the equivalent of about $6.8m on the $82m cap. Term is a different issue and I think teams take an enormous risk in giving anyone other than a superstar near maximum term.

Tkachuk finished the season as the Sens leading scorer and his contract along with Chabot's imposes a ceiling and bench mark for the other young guys looking for new deals.

If the Sens can keep their top guns under the umbrella created by the Tkachuk and Chabot contracts...they will be in great shape going forward.

The offset to these pipe dreams is attendance needs to get up to or beyond an average of 17k per game starting this October.
- spatso

Where are people getting this 96 million dollar figure from?

Nothing is unthinkable... but a number of things would have to come together to make it even remotely feasible. Sanderson would have to emerge in the next 1-2 years as at least Chabot's equal, if not a better long-term #1D. At least one of Brannstrom/Thomson would have to emerge as a legitimate PP-QB, with 40pts-50pts upside. Chabot would probably have to be disgruntled well beyond anything we've seen, and the trade return would have to be first-class. Plus, it wouldn't happen for at least a year, with Chabot scheduled to earn just $4M in actual $$$. However, beyond that he'd be earning $9.2M/yr for the following 5 years, 4 of which are NTC-protected. Now I'm a pretty big fan of Chabot, and believe he could play his entire career in a Senators jersey... but objectively, that's Hedman, Josi, and Makar contract territory, for a d-man who's averaged just 50pts/season over the past 3 years. At the very least, you'd have to re-evaluate your roster after next season, and make sure his contract still made sense in the context of of the team's direction.
- khawk

It would be hard to imagine the Ottawa Senators giving up a 4 mil player with a 8 mil cap hit this year.unless a big name and good age stay at home defender(imo what they need) became available this summer. The next year at 4 mill could be a sweetner to any big deal.
With no facts and reading the tea leaves. I think thomas may also feel slighted over the C. He has been a true proffessional and there is no indication of it. Just my feeling

But i agree overall alot of things would have to add up for this to remotely make sense. Im not advocating just exploring.appreciate the feedback.

Bottom line is winning changes everything.

Where are people getting this 96 million dollar figure from?
- Whatisavailable

I saw it first a few months ago. I think it is a consensus number of attendance rebounding after covid, the new US tv contract and the working off of the escrow balances incurred during the last few years.

The number is not a dramatic increase. It is probably more in line with what the cap would have been if covid had not disrupted normal NHL operations.

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Zack Ostapchuk, selected 39th overall by Ottawa in 2021, is leading the WHL in playoff scoring after round one. #GoSensGo

Ostapchuk led Vancouver to a historic first round. They became the first eighth seed to defeat the first seed in WHL history.

Don't know much about the game Ostapchuk plays. Love to see him play a few games lined up with Tkachuk and see how well the broadcaster can handle the play by play involving Ostapchuk passing to Tkachuk.

I don't dismiss Norris. I like him and am happy to have him on the team. I just think an 18% + shooting percentage is not sustainable. As far as faceoffs go he's been in that 51 to 52 percent range the last couple of years which is quite fine but nothing spectacular.

I just worry about seriously overpaying a guy who probably will be your second line center just like they have overpayed his buddy, the guy who is legitimately your second line LW. How do you win multiple Cups or even a single Cup with those two best buddies blocking the emergence and retention of an actual first line? It sounds harsh even to me but I'm still pissed off at Tkachuk for the contract stunt he pulled and think he's going to encourage Norris to do the same thing. These are second line guys on a good team and you can't pay second line guys 8 million if you want a good, contending team.
- Whatisavailable

I get your point, but I really don't understand the labels you're assigning to these players. Tkachuk was 17th in the NHL in scoring for a LW, which included 30 goals & 250 hits. If that's the #2LW on this team, who exactly do you envision as the #1LW? It can't be Stutzle, because you have him pegged as the #1C, ahead of Norris... who's now apparently obstructing their offensive talent pipeline. But once again, who exactly is being obstructed? Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, and Norris are the best offensive forwards on this team by a mile, and they only account for 2/3 of the top-6 forward positions. Beyond Formenton (maybe), I'm not sure there's a legitimate top-6 forward in the entire prospect system right now, let alone one capable of >30G at the NHL level.

Regardless, I don't believe Norris has the team over the barrel in the same manner that Tkachuk did. His agent could try to overplay his 40G scoring pace, but I don't think the team is nearly as concerned with offering him an RFA bridge deal, if necessary. So you either sign Norris to a longer-term deal that falls responsibly between Tkachuk/Batherson in terms of $$$/term, or let Norris roll the dice on a 2yr-deal and prove that he can sustain a top-10 NHL goal-scoring pace. Regardless, the team is going to have to start using bridge deals with some of their young players... presumably we'll see approach with Formenton & Brannstrom.

I get your point, but I really don't understand the labels you're assigning to these players. Tkachuk was 17th in the NHL in scoring for a LW, which included 30 goals & 250 hits. If that's the #2LW on this team, who exactly do you envision as the #1LW? It can't be Stutzle, because you have him pegged as the #1C, ahead of Norris... who's now apparently obstructing their offensive talent pipeline. But once again, who exactly is being obstructed? Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, and Norris are the best offensive forwards on this team by a mile, and they only account for 2/3 of the top-6 forward positions. Beyond Formenton (maybe), I'm not sure there's a legitimate top-6 forward in the entire prospect system right now, let alone one capable of >30G at the NHL level.

Regardless, I don't believe Norris has the team over the barrel in the same manner that Tkachuk did. His agent could try to overplay his 40G scoring pace, but I don't think the team is nearly as concerned with offering him an RFA bridge deal, if necessary. So you either sign Norris to a longer-term deal that falls responsibly between Tkachuk/Batherson in terms of $$$/term, or let Norris roll the dice on a 2yr-deal and prove that he can sustain a top-10 NHL goal-scoring pace. Regardless, the team is going to have to start using bridge deals with some of their young players... presumably we'll see approach with Formenton & Brannstrom.
- khawk

You're absolutely right. Right now those 4 guys are head and shoulders above anyone else in the system and it looks like things will stay that way for a long time. Once Sanderson gets his money, if he gets his money, the core will be pretty much set.

Let’s have Sanderson play some NHL before we lock him into big cash 🤦‍♂️
They better sign Norris long term not the stupid bridge deal cause we all know that worked well with Stone 😬

Let’s have Sanderson play some NHL before we lock him into big cash 🤦‍♂️
They better sign Norris long term not the stupid bridge deal cause we all know that worked well with Stone 😬
- sens4life1971

Too many fans are anointing Sanderson as the savoir. Let him play some NHL games. There is no doubt the team needs to upgrade the defense in the off-season. Watching the first 2 nights of the playoffs, playoff experience, veteran presence on the blueline matters so much. As for Norries, I would be surprised by a bridge deal unless they get too close to training camp and both parties don't want him missing camp, they settle on a bridge deal. You would hope Dorion learned from the Brady contract crap last fall.

I get your point, but I really don't understand the labels you're assigning to these players. Tkachuk was 17th in the NHL in scoring for a LW, which included 30 goals & 250 hits. If that's the #2LW on this team, who exactly do you envision as the #1LW? It can't be Stutzle, because you have him pegged as the #1C, ahead of Norris... who's now apparently obstructing their offensive talent pipeline. But once again, who exactly is being obstructed? Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, and Norris are the best offensive forwards on this team by a mile, and they only account for 2/3 of the top-6 forward positions. Beyond Formenton (maybe), I'm not sure there's a legitimate top-6 forward in the entire prospect system right now, let alone one capable of >30G at the NHL level.

Regardless, I don't believe Norris has the team over the barrel in the same manner that Tkachuk did. His agent could try to overplay his 40G scoring pace, but I don't think the team is nearly as concerned with offering him an RFA bridge deal, if necessary. So you either sign Norris to a longer-term deal that falls responsibly between Tkachuk/Batherson in terms of $$$/term, or let Norris roll the dice on a 2yr-deal and prove that he can sustain a top-10 NHL goal-scoring pace. Regardless, the team is going to have to start using bridge deals with some of their young players... presumably we'll see approach with Formenton & Brannstrom.
- khawk

Nice breakdown. Formenton's first full year in the NHL, Dorion needs to give him a 2 or 3 year deal. Brannstrom, qualify him, he has no leverage. Show me contract for him, 1 year deal.

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Zack Ostapchuk, selected 39th overall by Ottawa in 2021, is leading the WHL in playoff scoring after round one. #GoSensGo

Ostapchuk led Vancouver to a historic first round. They became the first eighth seed to defeat the first seed in WHL history.

Don't know much about the game Ostapchuk plays. Love to see him play a few games lined up with Tkachuk and see how well the broadcaster can handle the play by play involving Ostapchuk passing to Tkachuk.
- spatso

I was checking the regular season standings in the WHL, Vancouver had 53 pts and Everett had 100 pts. Talk about an upset. Nice to see the kid playing well. Too many Greig and his Wheat Kings got knocked out in that 3OT thriller.

Wouldn't that make Chabot that high value veteran/leadership presence everybody keeps talking about?
- Whatisavailable

I find it funny how some fans don't read between the lines. Listening to Brady before the Florida home game season finale, he harped on Carolina and Boston. That was him telling Dorion to smarten up and use their blue print for success. I know many guys that go out with the young crew on the town, they don't believe in Dorion so the mere fact that Chabot is being outspoken and basically telling Dorion the direction this team needs to go says, they aren't stupid and have seen the many failed acquisitions that have come through the doors over the last 3 years. Neither player wants to waste their formidable years floundering in the bottom 10. Don't fool yourself Sens fans, Brady and Thomas are fed up with the ineptitude of Dorion. No way Dorion tells us fans everything that said, but you can hear the narrative and neither player will stand for another year wasted by a foolish GM. Good on those 2 players.

I proposed trading him at this year's dead line.
An unpopular opinion, but his age is out of synch with the rest of the youth. By the time they are peaking he will be in decline. Other good D men in the pipe. We could have maximized value this year by trading him.
- Octavarium

I understand what point your making but bro Chabot is 25.5 years old! This team should be serious contenders in 2025-2029. IF Sanderson goes to top pair, I got no time with that.

My Top 25 D-men in the NHL

Victor Hedman
Roman Josi
Cale Makar
Adam Fox
Aaron Ekblad
Jaccob Slavin
John Carlson
Thomas Chabot
Kris Letang
Quinn Hughes
Morgan Rielly
Zach Werenski
Alex Pietrangelo
Drew Doughty
Shea Theodore
Seth Jones
Charlie McAvoy
Torey Krug
Adam Pelech
Brent Burns
Darnell Nurse
Miro Heiskanen
Rasmus Dahlin
Moritz Seider
Noah Dobson or Devon Toews

How many of those are 25 or younger? Chabot will be fine until 32/33. Then I can see a decline. Just look at Kristopher Letang

I think it was reported by a few folks that in the Sens exit interviews, the common theme was "let's get better now". That's a good sign and will be interesting to see what happens as a result. There are too many holes to fill in the current lineup to expect a quick turn around, but some pieces can definitely be addresses this summer such as obtaining a top prospect at the draft, acquiring a true top 6 forward, and perhaps obtaining a top 4 d-man.

I think it was reported by a few folks that in the Sens exit interviews, the common theme was "let's get better now". That's a good sign and will be interesting to see what happens as a result. There are too many holes to fill in the current lineup to expect a quick turn around, but some pieces can definitely be addresses this summer such as obtaining a top prospect at the draft, acquiring a true top 6 forward, and perhaps obtaining a top 4 d-man.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Any Sens/Jets/Canucks fan watching the first round will realize what a different game it is with the 16 playoff teams. The Canucks might be the closest to the playoffs in terms of points from the league standings, but after watching all of these teams quite closely this year, Vancouver could take the biggest step back if they don't address their current roster properly. The Jets could take a bigger step back behind Ottawa if the proper roster decisions aren't looked after properly. Ottawa has the opportunity to take the biggest jump next season but still not quite enough to make playoffs. Everything has to go right for a team like Ottawa that is 30 points from a playoff spot. Ottawa needs to add quality NHL experienced players in key positions, to even remotely think of challenging for a playoff spot. Outsiders opinion. The off-season will determine a lot of teams fortunes for the coming season.

Any Sens/Jets/Canucks fan watching the first round will realize what a different game it is with the 16 playoff teams. The Canucks might be the closest to the playoffs in terms of points from the league standings, but after watching all of these teams quite closely this year, Vancouver could take the biggest step back if they don't address their current roster properly. The Jets could take a bigger step back behind Ottawa if the proper roster decisions aren't looked after properly. Ottawa has the opportunity to take the biggest jump next season but still not quite enough to make playoffs. Everything has to go right for a team like Ottawa that is 30 points from a playoff spot. Ottawa needs to add quality NHL experienced players in key positions, to even remotely think of challenging for a playoff spot. Outsiders opinion. The off-season will determine a lot of teams fortunes for the coming season.
- PuckPix

It would be nice if we could declare a Sens sunshine day.

Just one day where folks would try to find the bright hopes and ignore the dark side of the young Sens (just for a day).

November was a horrible month. But there is also a positive to be considered. The Sens were the first NHL team obliged to play through a covid infection that swept through their entire dressing room. After the Sens covid experience the league began to soften the scheduling for covid and allowed some rescheduling for teams. But essentially the season was over for the Sens by the 1st of December. A very young and very sick Sens team took the road and when it was over the young Sens had lost every game in November, except for one.

Had November not happened you would like to believe that most of us would be really happy with the overall team results for this year. Think about this. Had the Sens played at the same level in November as they finished the last 10 games of the season we would all be gushing today. Not quite a playoff team but close enough to know that we will contend next year.

The problem for non believers is they are unable to see when the light finally begins to break through. They accept, perhaps prefer, even embrace, the darkness.

I think Dorion has done a great job in very trying financial circumstances. But, it is hard for some folks to acknowledge the quality of depth in the Ottawa system. Some prefer to live out of a default belief that if they acknowledge the quality and depth of the Sens young talent they will also be obliged to validate the superior job done by Dorion and his staff. So, they choose skepticism over hope, criticism over praise and, most important, disappointment over happiness.

I feel really good and happy about where the Sens are today.

I proposed trading him at this year's dead line.
An unpopular opinion, but his age is out of synch with the rest of the youth. By the time they are peaking he will be in decline. Other good D men in the pipe. We could have maximized value this year by trading him.
- Octavarium

He's only a year older than Batherson. You going to propose trading Batherson too?

He's only a year old than Batherson. You going to trade Batherson too?
- TDBSenatoR

I think you ask the right question. At some point you have to mark the cut off and I think it is Chabot. He is part of the group that will lead us to the promised land. He is a magnificent technical skater. He will be a top NHL Dman well beyond the age of 30.

Forwards hit prime and peak performance levels starting at around age 24 through to age 28 (or less). But, make no mistake, with a few exceptions NHL forwards have their best years long before they hit age 30.

Defensemen are very different. They are slower to develop and will often have outstanding years well beyond their 30th birthday.

It would be nice if we could declare a Sens sunshine day.

Just one day where folks would try to find the bright hopes and ignore the dark side of the young Sens (just for a day).
- spatso

What you are failing to grasp is the level of frustration among Senators fans with the failure of GM/management to generate good results with a solid core of young talent. Also, I am not sure why you feel the need to tell us how we should feel about things and what we should be posting in the comments.

Had November not happened you would like to believe that most of us would be really happy with the overall team results for this year. Think about this. Had the Sens played at the same level in November as they finished the last 10 games of the season we would all be gushing today. Not quite a playoff team but close enough to know that we will contend next year.
- spatso

By November, the team was hopelessly out of the race. We faced backup goaltenders and better teams saw it as an opportunity for a minimal effort game. We likely got more points as a result. In other words, the record since mid December onwards is not a true reflection of where this team is at.

I think Dorion has done a great job in very trying financial circumstances. But, it is hard for some folks to acknowledge the quality of depth in the Ottawa system. Some prefer to live out of a default belief that if they acknowledge the quality and depth of the Sens young talent they will also be obliged to validate the superior job done by Dorion and his staff. So, they choose skepticism over hope, criticism over praise and, most important, disappointment over happiness.
- spatso

Dorion has not done a great job in terms of adding supporting talent. Just look at the depth additions in Florida and Toronto versus Ottawa.
I believe that Dorion is provided a very modest budget to fill out the roster. His tendency has been to add marginal NHL players which he believes to be Top 9F or Top 6D. In fact, he looks like a hoarder of marginal NHL talent.

All that said, I still like the core young talent for this organization.

"a hoarder of marginal talent"

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

And now he's expanding that expertise into "drafting marginal talent".

We'll have the best bottom 6 forwards in the league, with a coach who can't wait to play them!

hard heavy hockey....HARD....I like my guys HARD

By November, the team was hopelessly out of the race. We faced backup goaltenders and better teams saw it as an opportunity for a minimal effort game. We likely got more points as a result. In other words, the record since mid December onwards is not a true reflection of where this team is at.
- SensFan25

This is part of why it's so hard to evaluate where they're really at. Tkachuk and Norris had career-best years, but Batherson barely played half the season, and Stutzle wasn't even played at #2C until 1/4 of the way into the season. Chabot-Zub looked really good to start the year, but the rest of the defence was so bad they had to sabotage their top-D pairing in order to try to survive 60min/GP. Pinto basically never played, White missed 3/4 of the season, their best D prospects were kept in the AHL for the majority of the season, and Sanderson never even played a game after signing his ELC. Then you have the offensive void from the likes of Paul, Tierney, Sanford, and Gambrell, vs. the unexpected scoring binges from Joseph and Formenton. And for the 2nd year in a row, Brannstrom finished the year playing a top-4D role during a late-season winning streak, with no assurance that he'll even be on the opening night roster next year.

So I wouldn't dismiss their 2nd-half performance entirely, but it's also nothing to write home about. People can bellyache about the bad November stretch all they want, but the team wound up 15-22-4 over the 1st half of the year, and 18-20-3 over the 2nd half... which is an "improvement" of just 5pts, and well below the playoff threshold (which, at minimum, would be more like 23-15-3). Plus, there's no question they padded their numbers via inconsequential games against "draft lottery" teams down the stretch. So as much as they could stand to have a bit more luck in terms of injuries, there's really no reason to expect improved performance next year, unless we see clear roster improvements this summer.

On the last Wally and Methot Show, Brent Wallace completely buried PD. Called him a child during press meetings. Methot wanted nothing to do with it, lol.

The burial begins at 7:40 and lasts until about 14:15.

My favourite bit is here.
https://youtu.be/DePJmUviy34?t=727