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This is part of why it's so hard to evaluate where they're really at. Tkachuk and Norris had career-best years, but Batherson barely played half the season, and Stutzle wasn't even played at #2C until 1/4 of the way into the season. Chabot-Zub looked really good to start the year, but the rest of the defence was so bad they had to sabotage their top-D pairing in order to try to survive 60min/GP. Pinto basically never played, White missed 3/4 of the season, their best D prospects were kept in the AHL for the majority of the season, and Sanderson never even played a game after signing his ELC. Then you have the offensive void from the likes of Paul, Tierney, Sanford, and Gambrell, vs. the unexpected scoring binges from Joseph and Formenton. And for the 2nd year in a row, Brannstrom finished the year playing a top-4D role during a late-season winning streak, with no assurance that he'll even be on the opening night roster next year.
So I wouldn't dismiss their 2nd-half performance entirely, but it's also nothing to write home about. People can bellyache about the bad November stretch all they want, but the team wound up 15-22-4 over the 1st half of the year, and 18-20-3 over the 2nd half... which is an "improvement" of just 5pts, and well below the playoff threshold (which, at minimum, would be more like 23-15-3). Plus, there's no question they padded their numbers via inconsequential games against "draft lottery" teams down the stretch. So as much as they could stand to have a bit more luck in terms of injuries, there's really no reason to expect improved performance next year, unless we see clear roster improvements this summer. - khawk
Other than Chabot and Zub they don't have any legitimate NHL D. This will change with the arrival of Sanderson and hopefully Thomson unless of course Smith keeps those two in Belleville and opts for Zaitsev, Brannstrom, Hamonic and MDZ. If Smith does that you could add Connor McDavid up front and you'll be out of the playoffs by Christmas. They don't need to acquire another D. They need to play Sanderson and Thomson who his coaches say is more than NHL ready. Having two more NHL D playing the blueline will make a big difference. Those other guys like Hamonic and Holden can do third pairing with limited minutes for now.
Next season hopefully their situation in net will not be so chaotic and if that's the case that will make a big difference as well.
That leaves the forward crew and more specifically a top six winger to play with Stutzle. I have no idea of who that might be because I know it's very hard to predict which player may mesh best with Stutzle who has not yet developed a style. It doesn't necessarily have to be a 10 million, hundred point guy. A lot of people are chanting Giroux's name. I like that idea because he just costs you money and it won't be for 8 years and you know what you're getting.
Another name I hear a lot is Fiala and that I don't care for. He's having a great year and so will cost you a lot in terms of assets and money and probably for term. He's a small guy who doesn't like to take care of things defensively and doesn't feel that he needs to according to your hockey writer types. Maybe he would be great with Stutzle but I wouldn't make that gamble.
Basically I don't think there are a whole lot of moves that need to be made at this time. Unfortunately both Smith and Dorion know that their jobs depend on a strong start and Dorion definitely can't be perceived as not having done enough and so I think something epically stupid could very well happen this summer. |
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Bartacus
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 01.08.2019
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Giroux. Makes sense. Lives here in the off-season. Grew up here. Family here. Excellent at faceoffs. Right handed, also plays RW. It's really a no brainer.
Per the player's motivations - if Claude wins a cup with Florida, he could sign a competitive deal to stick around with their awesome tax system, maybe win more cups. Conversely he wins a cup and then doesn't need to hit that milestone anymore. Either way - Giroux is 34 and has made nearly eighty million dollars. If he truly has any inclination to play for his home team while he remains a relevant force on the ice, he's running out of time to do it. You can always do a swan song at the very end like Joe Thornton tried to do with Toronto, but in the end, that desire for a cup sent Jumbo to Florida where he mostly rides the bench. If winning the grail matters deeply to Giroux, then we should all be cheering for the Panthers to win it all, otherwise we can probably silence the speculation and welcome him in 3 years to anchor our fourth line for 800k. But it's one thing to win a cup, it's another thing to matter to the game and win the cup. Sure, I think it'd be cool to get my name on the cup as a backup goalie who barely plays and gets zero playoff time, but would I feel any meaningful degree of ownership over that victory? Meh.
Jason Spezza has quietly been signing league min year after year to help his hometown Leafs try and win a cup for the first time in 50+ years. Spezza was 35 when he started doing that. Pretty honorable. I don't expect that from Giroux.
Spezza had the benefit of lending his skills to a clearly playoff bound young squad, which Giroux does not with the Sens. We shall see... on paper it makes all the sense in the world. |
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Giroux. Makes sense. Lives here in the off-season. Grew up here. Family here. Excellent at faceoffs. Right handed, also plays RW. It's really a no brainer.
Per the player's motivations - if Claude wins a cup with Florida, he could sign a competitive deal to stick around with their awesome tax system, maybe win more cups. Conversely he wins a cup and then doesn't need to hit that milestone anymore. Either way - Giroux is 34 and has made nearly eighty million dollars. If he truly has any inclination to play for his home team while he remains a relevant force on the ice, he's running out of time to do it. You can always do a swan song at the very end like Joe Thornton tried to do with Toronto, but in the end, that desire for a cup sent Jumbo to Florida where he mostly rides the bench. If winning the grail matters deeply to Giroux, then we should all be cheering for the Panthers to win it all, otherwise we can probably silence the speculation and welcome him in 3 years to anchor our fourth line for 800k. But it's one thing to win a cup, it's another thing to matter to the game and win the cup. Sure, I think it'd be cool to get my name on the cup as a backup goalie who barely plays and gets zero playoff time, but would I feel any meaningful degree of ownership over that victory? Meh.
Jason Spezza has quietly been signing league min year after year to help his hometown Leafs try and win a cup for the first time in 50+ years. Spezza was 35 when he started doing that. Pretty honorable. I don't expect that from Giroux.
Spezza had the benefit of lending his skills to a clearly playoff bound young squad, which Giroux does not with the Sens. We shall see... on paper it makes all the sense in the world. - Bartacus
Leaf fans and commentators are very unhappy with Tavares. Would the Sens offer up a 4th round pick for him? How about using a 4th round pick to bring back Mark Stone?
Saw some speculation that Kadri will likely opt for move in the off-season and Toronto remains on his list of possible destinations.
My favourite possible deal still remains giving up the #7 + + for Pierre Luc Dubois.
From the HockeyNews
"An informed source claims John Ruddy, head of Trinity Development Group, is the favorite of the city of Ottawa and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman."
"Dorion has been reporting to a three-person board that includes Melnyk's longtime business associate Lawrence Zeifman and John Miszuk, the club's chief administrative officer. The Senators GM indicated he's been doing so for several years and anticipates that the structure won't be changing anytime soon." |
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Leaf fans and commentators are very unhappy with Tavares. Would the Sens offer up a 4th round pick for him? How about using a 4th round pick to bring back Mark Stone?
Saw some speculation that Kadri will likely opt for move in the off-season and Toronto remains on his list of possible destinations.
My favourite possible deal still remains giving up the #7 + + for Pierre Luc Dubois.
From the HockeyNews
"An informed source claims John Ruddy, head of Trinity Development Group, is the favorite of the city of Ottawa and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman."
"Dorion has been reporting to a three-person board that includes Melnyk's longtime business associate Lawrence Zeifman and John Miszuk, the club's chief administrative officer. The Senators GM indicated he's been doing so for several years and anticipates that the structure won't be changing anytime soon." - spatso
I think the words you're looking for when talking about Tavares or Stone are massive salary dumps and the way that works is the other team is supposed to give you stuff. Toronto would be ecstatic if they could free up 11 million over the next three years but I'm not a Leafs fan so I would be inclined to pass and Tavares has a NMC anyway.
Stone is even worse 9.5 million for 6 more years. That was a really stupid contract when it was signed and people were saying it was going to look increasingly bad in its latter years. Nobody expected the decline to begin quite so soon.
Pierre Luc Dubois is having a good year and won't be cheap in either assets or money. He's unsigned and I don't know what kind of money he'll be looking for. He's a top six center so you'd have to move either Norris or Stutzle to the wing and we already know that Stutzle is a lot better at the C position so that means moving Norris to the wing unless you make him part of the trade and I can't see how that makes sense. We already know that Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson work really well together. I don't think Pierre Luc Dubois is what the Sens need even though he's a good player.
I don't know anything about that board and their influence over Dorion but I think we're about to find out this summer. |
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Leaf fans and commentators are very unhappy with Tavares. Would the Sens offer up a 4th round pick for him? How about using a 4th round pick to bring back Mark Stone? - spatso
Tavares was a redundant signing in Toronto but is still an ok player. Would be interesting if he was a centrepiece of a team instead of being surrounded by superior talent. Not a knock, just a compliment to Matthews and Marner.
Stone has been injured one year. Let's pump the breaks on him turning into bust. Managed 30 points in 37 games while injured. It will be interesting to see his play entering his 30s though as he isn't a great technical skater.
I get the point you are trying to make but these are still two good hockey players. One in a redundant role by choice and the other has one injury riddled season. |
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Another name I hear a lot is Fiala and that I don't care for. He's having a great year and so will cost you a lot in terms of assets and money and probably for term. He's a small guy who doesn't like to take care of things defensively and doesn't feel that he needs to according to your hockey writer types. Maybe he would be great with Stutzle but I wouldn't make that gamble. - Whatisavailable
The Fail rumours are strange to me too. Guy is having a career year. Not sure why Minny wouldn't try to keep him. You are correct the price to acquire and keep would be high. He is also another lefthand shot which I am not sure works with the existing group. Batherson is this teams only dangerous right hand shot. There were so many times this year where opportunities went to waste just due to the fact this team doesn't have more quality right handed shot players.
I like Fiala as a payer, I am just not sure he is the missing piece. I could be wrong though. |
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SensFan25
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: ON Joined: 08.24.2006
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The Fail rumours are strange to me too. Guy is having a career year. Not sure why Minny wouldn't try to keep him. You are correct the price to acquire and keep would be high. He is also another lefthand shot which I am not sure works with the existing group. Batherson is this teams only dangerous right hand shot. There were so many times this year where opportunities went to waste just due to the fact this team doesn't have more quality right handed shot players.
I like Fiala as a payer, I am just not sure he is the missing piece. I could be wrong though. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
Minnesota can't keep Fiala due to cap issues. The Parise/Suter cap re-capture penalty goes from $4.7M this year to $12.7M next year and $14.7M in the following 2 seasons.
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/wild
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Tavares was a redundant signing in Toronto but is still an ok player. Would be interesting if he was a centrepiece of a team instead of being surrounded by superior talent. Not a knock, just a compliment to Matthews and Marner.
Stone has been injured one year. Let's pump the breaks on him turning into bust. Managed 30 points in 37 games while injured. It will be interesting to see his play entering his 30s though as he isn't a great technical skater.
I get the point you are trying to make but these are still two good hockey players. One in a redundant role by choice and the other has one injury riddled season. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
Yes. You got my point and your qualification is important.
You cannot ignore the age factor and the impact of declining performance for guys who were given huge retirement deals based on what they did in previous.
There will always be exceptions...Joe Pavelski, he skates like the wind. But he was always a great skater.
I do think Norris ends up on the wing.
Did Dubois play junior with Batherson?
If Winnipeg does a mini rebuil, I do think Dubois will be floated as a possible option and I think he is the kind of player Dorion lusts over. |
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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The Fail rumours are strange to me too. Guy is having a career year. Not sure why Minny wouldn't try to keep him. You are correct the price to acquire and keep would be high. He is also another lefthand shot which I am not sure works with the existing group. Batherson is this teams only dangerous right hand shot. There were so many times this year where opportunities went to waste just due to the fact this team doesn't have more quality right handed shot players.
I like Fiala as a payer, I am just not sure he is the missing piece. I could be wrong though. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
Minnesota does not have a lot of options. My guess is they will try and figure a way to keep Fiala and get through the crazy cap mess they are in for the next two years. If they do deal Fiala, you can be certain they will not want to take back any salary. They will be looking for picks and high quality prospects. Not a lot of teams (Montreal, LA, Anaheim, Buffalo) that has both the high value picks and prospects to make a strong offer.
Dubois is a little different. Winnipeg (the team) floated the possibility that they might deal Dubois if he was not interested in signing a long term deal. Dubois countered that he was open to signing a long term deal in Winnipeg. Strange brew?
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The Fail rumours are strange to me too. Guy is having a career year. Not sure why Minny wouldn't try to keep him. You are correct the price to acquire and keep would be high. He is also another lefthand shot which I am not sure works with the existing group. Batherson is this teams only dangerous right hand shot. There were so many times this year where opportunities went to waste just due to the fact this team doesn't have more quality right handed shot players.
I like Fiala as a payer, I am just not sure he is the missing piece. I could be wrong though. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
Been sick as a dog as they say, horrible flu! I will be posting a piece by tonight, today is the first day I feel half normal.
With regards to Fiala, there's a reason NSH traded him, he was a problem in the locker room/off the ice. He never produces in the playoffs because he wont go in the dirty areas. Ottawa doesn't need a player like this, plus like you said, a career year..means inflated contract! Doubtful he hits those numbers and they will over pay for him, no thanks!!
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Been sick as a dog as they say, horrible flu! I will be posting a piece by tonight, today is the first day I feel half normal.
With regards to Fiala, there's a reason NSH traded him, he was a problem in the locker room/off the ice. He never produces in the playoffs because he wont go in the dirty areas. Ottawa doesn't need a player like this, plus like you said, a career year..means inflated contract! Doubtful he hits those numbers and they will over pay for him, no thanks!! - Kevin Francis
Hope you feel better soon!
In response to a couple of posts, Minny does indeed have cap issues, which is why the rumours are there, but not sure the assumption that Minny just will have to give away a restricted free agent easily and why they wouldn't explore avenues to try to keep him. However, it's the type of situation Dorion should be seeking out. I'm just not sure Fail is a great fit - that's without knowing much about his attitude that Kevin alludes to. |
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Minnesota does not have a lot of options. My guess is they will try and figure a way to keep Fiala and get through the crazy cap mess they are in for the next two years. If they do deal Fiala, you can be certain they will not want to take back any salary. They will be looking for picks and high quality prospects. Not a lot of teams (Montreal, LA, Anaheim, Buffalo) that has both the high value picks and prospects to make a strong offer.
Dubois is a little different. Winnipeg (the team) floated the possibility that they might deal Dubois if he was not interested in signing a long term deal. Dubois countered that he was open to signing a long term deal in Winnipeg. Strange brew? - spatso
I'd prefer Dubois over Faila. He can play centre and wing.
However, he's another left hand shot, that I think gets overlooked when we get talking about additions. Having 4-5 players in the offensive zone with the same shot is easier to defend than a 2-3 players with different shots. Way too many times last year, there were players having to receive passes on their back hand when a right handed shot player could have released a quality shot.
Maybe I am overthinking that aspect but it's an observation. |
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I'd prefer Dubois over Faila. He can play centre and wing.
However, he's another left hand shot, that I think gets overlooked when we get talking about additions. Having 4-5 players in the offensive zone with the same shot is easier to defend than a 2-3 players with different shots. Way too many times last year, there were players having to receive passes on their back hand when a right handed shot player could have released a quality shot.
Maybe I am overthinking that aspect but it's an observation. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
I think you're spot on. For different reasons granted but that's why I don't think adding a left shot D is a good idea since both Chabot and Sanderson are left shots. |
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I think you're spot on. For different reasons granted but that's why I don't think adding a left shot D is a good idea since both Chabot and Sanderson are left shots. - Whatisavailable
If they play on different pairings, it should be effective. Branstrom, the other puck moving guy is also a left handed shot.
It's really about putting players in positions to take advantage of situations that occur.
Right now, your power play is, when healthy and loading up, Chabot, Stu, Norris, Brady, and Batherson. While this is an effective unit, that's 4 left handed shots. I've lost count how many times Stu has had to receive pucks on his backhand when receiving a pass. It was mainly happening when Batherson (your only lethal right hand shot in the lineup) was injured. We saw Norris evolve into a very effective scorer from the right side face-off circle. There should be the same option on the left side and a right handed shot point man to compliment Chabot (Zub sometimes played there, but not much). More shot variety also allows a better 5 man rotation in the offensive zone rather than staying in the same spot.
It's a tricky situation as the team is still desperate for talent so you don't want to be super picky, but a top touted right hand shot would be useful in my view. |
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If they play on different pairings, it should be effective. Branstrom, the other puck moving guy is also a left handed shot.
It's really about putting players in positions to take advantage of situations that occur.
Right now, your power play is, when healthy and loading up, Chabot, Stu, Norris, Brady, and Batherson. While this is an effective unit, that's 4 left handed shots. I've lost count how many times Stu has had to receive pucks on his backhand when receiving a pass. It was mainly happening when Batherson (your only lethal right hand shot in the lineup) was injured. We saw Norris evolve into a very effective scorer from the right side face-off circle. There should be the same option on the left side and a right handed shot point man to compliment Chabot (Zub sometimes played there, but not much). More shot variety also allows a better 5 man rotation in the offensive zone rather than staying in the same spot.
It's a tricky situation as the team is still desperate for talent so you don't want to be super picky, but a top touted right hand shot would be useful in my view. - Gord_Wilson_2.0
I wasn't talking about third pairing D but top 4. You already have Chabot and probably Sanderson so why would anybody propose acquiring Chychrun for example. If they ever acquire a top 4 D it needs to be a right shot RD. |
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I wasn't talking about third pairing D but top 4. You already have Chabot and probably Sanderson so why would anybody propose acquiring Chychrun for example. If they ever acquire a top 4 D it needs to be a right shot RD. - Whatisavailable
Some people are all abuzz about Fiala... but I really don't know how he addresses the team's primary roster issues. If they were to make a major trade with the Wild, I'd rather see them go after Dumba. He's 27, plays 23min/GP including both special teams, skates very well, puts up a 10G/35Pts pace every year, is a natural RHD, and could effectively complement Chabot or Sanderson. It would be dependent on his willingness to sign an extension, but his deals have been pretty reasonable (ELC, 2yr/$2.5M, 5yr/$6.0M).
If Dorion's smart, he makes a move like that before July 1st, as a clear indication to a highly-competitive player like Giroux that they're serious about taking the next step out of the rebuild. Then you push to have Giroux signed on the dotted line right on July 1st, as a clear indicator to your season ticket base that next year WILL be different, and focus the rest of the summer on RFA extensions for Norris & Formenton. |
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Some people are all abuzz about Fiala... but I really don't know how he addresses the team's primary roster issues. If they were to make a major trade with the Wild, I'd rather see them go after Dumba. He's 27, plays 23min/GP including both special teams, skates very well, puts up a 10G/35Pts pace every year, is a natural RHD, and could effectively complement Chabot or Sanderson. It would be dependent on his willingness to sign an extension, but his deals have been pretty reasonable (ELC, 2yr/$2.5M, 5yr/$6.0M).
If Dorion's smart, he makes a move like that before July 1st, as a clear indication to a highly-competitive player like Giroux that they're serious about taking the next step out of the rebuild. Then you push to have Giroux signed on the dotted line right on July 1st, as a clear indicator to your season ticket base that next year WILL be different, and focus the rest of the summer on RFA extensions for Norris & Formenton. - khawk
Chabot - Dumba
Sanderson - Zub
Not a bad top 4 if Sanderson is in fact the real deal. |
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spatso
Ottawa Senators |
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Location: jensen beach, FL Joined: 02.19.2007
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Noise leaking on the edges suggests that Trinity Group (Ruddy) and a bunch of high profile Ottawa investors plus the Melnyk family and some hockey legends (Daniel Alfreddson) have the inside lane on a final Sens ownership deal and the LeBreton rebuild. Signals that both the city and NHL (Bettman) are ready to sign off on a deal.
What does this mean for on ice moves?
Pure guess on my part. If the Trinity ownership group gets an NCC LeBreton nod (June)...watch for Daniel Alfredsson to take a seat at the Ottawa draft table in Montreal.
When Melnyk bought the Sens he put on an Eagles concert. Free for all Sens ticket season holders.
Every new ownership group wants to make a splashy entry. In this case, we know every Sens fans wants to see all the splash from a new ownership group to occur on the ice.
I know what I would do on draft day. I would move the #7 pick plus other assets to acquire a significantly talented player to signal my clear intention to contend.
And, yet, I still wonder. I have no idea how Pierre McGuire ever fitted into this unfolding story.
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