I want to see Provorov play with a legitimate top 4 partner before I write him off completely.

When you look at all the players who have won the Norris over the last few years, ALL of them have top 4 level regular partners. They don't have to carry their partners like Provorov does.

I am not saying he will ever win a Norris, he won't, but at least give him a partner to the level guys like Hedman, Fox, Doughty, etc have.

That is not Justin Braun.

Give Provorov Dante Fabbro for example, and watch if he plays better. It's no coincidence he started playing better when he played with Cam York.
- MBFlyerfan

We've seen him play with Niskanen, peak Ghost, Sanheim and little bit of Ellis... he'd had some solid partners but continued to turn in mixed results.

If there's a one for one swap, like an Erik Johnson for Shatternkirk kinda deal, I'd be looking into it.

I’m really thinking Chuck tries to move up to 1 if the cost is feasible. If not, then moving to 2 or 3 to get Slafkovsky or Nemec. Every other player I think is going to require them to be a bit more patient than they want to be right now.
- hereticpride

Ye of little faith, he's not gonna have to move up, they're winning this lottery!

If they do, I'd love to see a trade down to 2 or 3, still pick a stud and grab an extra first or high second in the process.

I’m really thinking Chuck tries to move up to 1 if the cost is feasible. If not, then moving to 2 or 3 to get Slafkovsky or Nemec. Every other player I think is going to require them to be a bit more patient than they want to be right now.
- hereticpride

There's no reason to move up. They're gonna get the same caliber player between 2-6. And 1OA hasn't been traded since 2003, so you can bet the cost is ridiculous.

Schenn had 26 points in a lockout shortened season. Which equates to around 45 in an 82 game season. I'd argue that Frost needs to show he can score 40-45 points, not 30 next season.

I have patience for Frost. He's been yo-yoed around by this organization and had a pretty big injury. If he can stick on a line with Cates and Tippett and their play driving stats continue and some of those chances start going in the net I'd be pretty happy.
- TobyFlenderson

40 is asking a lot of a 3rd line player. Lundell played 3rd line C for FLA which was one of if not the highest scoring teams in the NHL and he had just 44 points. Most of the NHL's 3rd line players finished in the 30s. Not to mention we dont know if hes going to get much PP time. He might be on Unit 2 and we dont know if the Flyers will give unit 2 much time.

Maybe if injuries happen and he gets some 2nd line time then sure 40 might be reasonable

I’m really thinking Chuck tries to move up to 1 if the cost is feasible. If not, then moving to 2 or 3 to get Slafkovsky or Nemec. Every other player I think is going to require them to be a bit more patient than they want to be right now.
- hereticpride

Flyers may look to move down a spot or two if they can guarantee that the guy they want will still be on the board

Now that we have Sami Kapanen back, it’s only a matter of time until we get Raspberry Kapanen on our side…or whatever that kid’s name is.
- SuperSchennBros

Are you sure you want him?

He's skilled and all but I'm not sure he has his father's work ethic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g04fzKclIGE

Are you sure you want him?

He's skilled and all but I'm not sure he has his father's work ethic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g04fzKclIGE
- atc

I don’t know everything there is to know about Sami’s son. I just know of what I have seen, I like. Penalty killer. Half decent offensive skill. I couldn’t tell you what his practice habits are.

40 is asking a lot of a 3rd line player. Lundell played 3rd line C for FLA which was one of if not the highest scoring teams in the NHL and he had just 44 points. Most of the NHL's 3rd line players finished in the 30s. Not to mention we dont know if hes going to get much PP time. He might be on Unit 2 and we dont know if the Flyers will give unit 2 much time.

Maybe if injuries happen and he gets some 2nd line time then sure 40 might be reasonable
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

40 points isn’t asking a lot of Frost on the third line. If he’s legit, he’ll overcome. Giroux did it. Mike Richards did it.

Any female head coaches out there the flyers can hire?

40 points isn’t asking a lot of Frost on the third line. If he’s legit, he’ll overcome. Giroux did it. Mike Richards did it.
- SuperSchennBros

Uh, first of all, Claude scored half of his points in 09-10 on the top PP unit. He also only spent a fraction of the season in the bottom-six. By the end of the year he was with Gagne and Richie on the top line.

And Richie never scored 40-points as a 3rd-liner (until he got to LA lol).

Kyle Shero also hired as an amateur scout.

Devil's open to trading pick #5 for a forward. 🤔

Uh, first of all, Claude scored half of his points in 09-10 on the top PP unit. He also only spent a fraction of the season in the bottom-six. By the end of the year he was with Gagne and Richie on the top line.

And Richie never scored 40-points as a 3rd-liner (until he got to LA lol).
- Tomahawk

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Upshall
Umberger-Richards-Lupul

You do realize that by Richards third season, we were so deep that any of the top 3 lines we placed on the ice could have been considered a first line. If I’m wrong about Richards, than I could be talking about Jeff Carter. Take your pick.

Uhh…This is how it works in hockey. If you produce, you move up. Unless you’re the best player on your team, nobody stays steady on one line. You move up.

Also explain why Frost wouldn’t get PP time? Regardless of the ice time or what line any player is on, it’s up to the player.

I’m really thinking Chuck tries to move up to 1 if the cost is feasible. If not, then moving to 2 or 3 to get Slafkovsky or Nemec. Every other player I think is going to require them to be a bit more patient than they want to be right now.
- hereticpride

mmm…one of Slaf or Nemec should be there at 3, so no need for the trade of we get the 4th. Chances are high that Cooley is a top 3 pick. Even at 5 I wouldn’t worry too much. Maybe if you slide to 6th.

And if you somehow get the 4th pick and Cooley is on the board, you smile and say ‘thank you’ whilst quickly adding him to your roster. Yeah, he’s going to play a year in college. Fine. It’s just one year, and he’s got the talent which is worth the wait.

The facts get in the way sometimes don’t they
- ClaudeFather

They sure do and Schenn's development path was not similar to Frost's. NHL games played is what matters. Not age. Yet the fact is that some want to hold games lost during the pandemic and due to injury against Frost in his development curve.

The biggest issue is the good teams top players are light years better than the Flyers best players. High end talent is a big problem and it won;t be solved anytime soon.

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Upshall
Umberger-Richards-Lupul

You do realize that by Richards third season, we were so deep that any of the top 3 lines we placed on the ice could have been considered a first line. If I’m wrong about Richards, than I could be talking about Jeff Carter. Take your pick.

Uhh…This is how it works in hockey. If you produce, you move up. Unless you’re the best player on your team, nobody stays steady on one line. You move up.

Also explain why Frost wouldn’t get PP time? Regardless of the ice time or what line any player is on, it’s up to the player.
- SuperSchennBros

Richie averaged over 21 mins per game in 07-08, more than everybody except for Kimmo. Carter averaged 19 mins per game, 4th among forwards. Carter actually averaged the most ES TOI of any Flyers forward. Neither of them were deployed as 3rd-line players.

Frost averaged under 14mins per game. If you're gonna play him 21 mins like Richie, put him on the point of the 2nd-ranked top PP unit, put him 1st in the PK rotation where the team scores 13 SHG... yeah, he'll have no trouble clearing 40 points even if he doesn't play particularly well.

I want to see Provorov play with a legitimate top 4 partner before I write him off completely.

When you look at all the players who have won the Norris over the last few years, ALL of them have top 4 level regular partners. They don't have to carry their partners like Provorov does.

I am not saying he will ever win a Norris, he won't, but at least give him a partner to the level guys like Hedman, Fox, Doughty, etc have.

That is not Justin Braun.

Give Provorov Dante Fabbro for example, and watch if he plays better. It's no coincidence he started playing better when he played with Cam York.
- MBFlyerfan

Just who did Prov carry? Who? Who did he make better? Who?

The problem is that has not happened.

For 6.5 mill w term I would have liked him to make his partner at least a little better. We now know he simply cannot do that. At the end of the day it was Braun who actually carried that pair at times. It’s a shame as Braun has played very well all things considered and on the 3rd pair with a young dman line York that could have worked.

I think Prov returns to form if Ellis is healthy, but he needs a player like that next to him.

If there is one thing we have learned this year and in the post season interviews it’s that Prov is not the guy to make others better nor is he a leader. He’s just not. Guess that’s two things, but either way he has really let this team down and did not do himself any favors with his comments either. His leadership skills are simply nonexistent.

Can’t stand both teams but NYR thinking they are this superstar team couldn’t be more untrue. Lucky to be up in this game

The biggest issue is the good teams top players are light years better than the Flyers best players. High end talent is a big problem and it won;t be solved anytime soon.
- PLindbergh31

Top 5 pick baby! It’s literally a great time for this team to bottom out, couldn’t be better. It’s so sad how blind this organization is.

Just who did Prov carry? Who? Who did he make better? Who?

The problem is that has not happened.

For 6.5 mill w term I would have liked him to make his partner at least a little better. We now know he simply cannot do that. At the end of the day it was Braun who actually carried that pair at times. It’s a shame as Braun has played very well all things considered and on the 3rd pair with a young dman line York that could have worked.

I think Prov returns to form if Ellis is healthy, but he needs a player like that next to him.

If there is one thing we have learned this year and in the post season interviews it’s that Prov is not the guy to make others better nor is he a leader. He’s just not. Guess that’s two things, but either way he has really let this team down and did not do himself any favors with his comments either. His leadership skills are simply nonexistent.
- Joe Nardone

Just who did Prov carry? Who? Who did he make better? Who?

The problem is that has not happened.

For 6.5 mill w term I would have liked him to make his partner at least a little better. We now know he simply cannot do that. At the end of the day it was Braun who actually carried that pair at times. It’s a shame as Braun has played very well all things considered and on the 3rd pair with a young dman line York that could have worked.


- Joe Nardone

Many don't realize that the percentage of players who make other players better is a very small percentage of players. The issue is expectations out of whack. Expecting Provorov to elevate other players playing in the conditions that he plays in is an out of whack expectation. What information can you provide that shows that Braun carried the pair? Save yourself some time because you can't.

I think Prov returns to form if Ellis is healthy, but he needs a player like that next to him.


- Joe Nardone

As does every player in the league other than the elite.

If there is one thing we have learned this year and in the post season interviews it’s that Prov is not the guy to make others better nor is he a leader. He’s just not. Guess that’s two things, but either way he has really let this team down and did not do himself any favors with his comments either. His leadership skills are simply nonexistent.
- Joe Nardone

So many have no clue what leadership is. It's not what is said in a press conference although how Provorov handled that was not ideal. He is an emotional player who doesn't like to lose and knows he can play better and is extremely frustrated. Leadership is playing your heart out game after game and taking on the responsibility he does.
The basis that you've used for claiming that his leadership skills are nonexistent is not sound.

Richie averaged over 21 mins per game in 07-08, more than everybody except for Kimmo. Carter averaged 19 mins per game, 4th among forwards. Carter actually averaged the most ES TOI of any Flyers forward. Neither of them were deployed as 3rd-line players.

Frost averaged under 14mins per game. If you're gonna play him 21 mins like Richie, put him on the point of the 2nd-ranked top PP unit, put him 1st in the PK rotation where the team scores 13 SHG... yeah, he'll have no trouble clearing 40 points even if he doesn't play particularly well.


- Tomahawk

What does average ice time have to do with what line a player plays on? Briere, Carter and Richards all played center a couple seasons prior to Giroux making the team. All at even strength, rarely, if at all played together. Point being, a third line center can achieve 40 points if they’re good enough.

I think you’ve completely lost track of the argument. Frost can easily play third line center and get power play time…or be moved to wing on the top six. Should play well, his ice time (no idea why you brought this up) will increase if deserved. It’s really not that hard an idea to grasp.

True, but he hasn't even played a full season in the NHL yet. 77 games total. Lets see how much improvement he makes next season. I would honestly say, talk to me in January, then we can revisit whether or not that potential shows any signs of being reality.
- MBFlyerfan

Very pragmatic, I can go with that. I do hope Frost can figure it out.
Maybe if he watches the pace of the playoffs he can learn.

True, but he hasn't even played a full season in the NHL yet. 77 games total. Lets see how much improvement he makes next season. I would honestly say, talk to me in January, then we can revisit whether or not that potential shows any signs of being reality.
- MBFlyerfan

Very pragmatic, I can go with that. I do hope Frost can figure it out.
Maybe if he watches the pace of the playoffs he can learn.