Top 5 pick baby! It’s literally a great time for this team to bottom out, couldn’t be better. It’s so sad how blind this organization is.
- ClaudeFather

6. You can slide 2.

We can’t get 3. It’ll be 1, 2, 4-6.

1st - 9.5%
2nd - 9.8%
4th - 15.4%
5th - 44.9%
6th - 20.5%

Avg draft position is 4.4 in simulations.

Yes, that means we have a better chance at falling than rising or staying put added together. That’s the price of having a lottery.

6. You can slide 2.

We can’t get 3. It’ll be 1, 2, 4-6.

1st - 9.5%
2nd - 9.8%
4th - 15.4%
5th - 44.9%
6th - 20.5%

Yes, that means we have a better chance at falling than rising or staying put. That’s the price of having a lottery that includes so many teams.
- Hesh_

A 65% chance to get the 5th or 6th pick with a 10 and 13 game losing streak Only these bums could do it.

As the Phillies blow a 6 run 9th inning lead. 🤣

A 65% chance to get the 5th or 6th pick with a 10 and 13 game losing streak Only these bums could do it.

As the Phillies blow a 6 run 9th inning lead. 🤣
- PLindbergh31

These are a few of the Philly sports things

What does average ice time have to do with what line a player plays on? Briere, Carter and Richards all played center a couple seasons prior to Giroux making the team. All at even strength, rarely, if at all played together. Point being, a third line center can achieve 40 points if they’re good enough.

I think you’ve completely lost track of the argument. Frost can easily play third line center and get power play time…or be moved to wing on the top six. Should play well, his ice time (no idea why you brought this up) will increase if deserved. It’s really not that hard an idea to grasp.
- SuperSchennBros

You said it's "easy" to score 40-points as a 3rd-liner, then cited two outlier examples who weren't even really used as third-liners, on teams filled with veteran star players, who got plenty of time on PP units that were ranked top-3 in the league.

It's nowhere close to a fair comparison or expectation. That's the part that you don't seem to grasp.

Just look around the league. Most guys who are getting third-line usage and a little bit of PP time are not scoring 40+ points. The Flyers barely had three players on the entire team pass 40 points this season, mostly because the PP was so bad. If 2022-23 is anything like this season, Frost is already behind the 8-ball, no matter what line he's on.

These are a few of the Philly sports things
- DaveofYork

It could be worse. Embiid could have a broken face.

Farabee actually concerns me more than Frost, especially with his new contract.

Health wise especially.
- FlyerFan3260

I agree Joel is too slight and really was just another injury prone middle sixer this year.

Pavelski scores! Assist 2Real

Schenn was also 3 years younger at that point. And had dominated the AHL to the tune of 6 goals and 6 assists in 7 games (Frost has been 'just OK' in the A). Not to mention he showed out in the playoff series against the Pens and had 9 points in 11 games in total.

I don't think all hope is lost for Frost and I recognize that he basically lost a whole season being injured, but I don't think this as apples to apples of a comparison as you're making it. Schenn was 20, Frost is 23.
- TobyFlenderson

Frost isn't 23 yet. This was his 22 year old season, and he didn't have a 21 year old season due to the should injury.

Some players just take longer. Think Dallas now regrets simply giving up on Nichushkin at age 24 after his 0G, 10A, 0 PIM in 56 game season (his 4th North American pro season)? He's now a 25G, 52-point scorer for Colorado.

I will say it again: Give Frost more than the 11th most PP time among forwards. Keep him on a line with 2 bonafide NHL players and not two good AHL/NHL fill-in players and you'll see his production increase significantly.

Much of this season was spent unlearning things that worked for him in the OHL but not the NHL. Eventually, he did start moving his feet more consistently, using his body better, and then regaining lost confidence. As with Tippett, Frost's points over the final 15 games didn't match the quality of his play.

On Exit Day, Couturier called the line with Frost and Tippett the team's best line in the final 10-15 games.

40 points isn’t asking a lot of Frost on the third line. If he’s legit, he’ll overcome. Giroux did it. Mike Richards did it.
- SuperSchennBros

Agreed! He also would bump up here and there because of injuries, etc, so 35-40 points is totally possible if he is legit. I want him to succeed as it is the best for the team.

The biggest issue is the good teams top players are light years better than the Flyers best players. High end talent is a big problem and it won;t be solved anytime soon.
- PLindbergh31

Yes, so true. We do not have high end talent even if the team is totally healthy. When was the last time we had a line that was a major threat every time they were on the ice?

Just who did Prov carry? Who? Who did he make better? Who?

The problem is that has not happened.

For 6.5 mill w term I would have liked him to make his partner at least a little better. We now know he simply cannot do that. At the end of the day it was Braun who actually carried that pair at times. It’s a shame as Braun has played very well all things considered and on the 3rd pair with a young dman line York that could have worked.

I think Prov returns to form if Ellis is healthy, but he needs a player like that next to him.

If there is one thing we have learned this year and in the post season interviews it’s that Prov is not the guy to make others better nor is he a leader. He’s just not. Guess that’s two things, but either way he has really let this team down and did not do himself any favors with his comments either. His leadership skills are simply nonexistent.
- Joe Nardone

Good points! I'm a Provy fan but he is at the point where he should be carrying/mentoring someone else, as he has been around 6 years and is getting paid to be a star/leader on this team. Circumstances have not been ideal, but as someone else posted recently, he shouldn't need a babysitter like Nisky or Ellis to help him succeed.

Giroux only 13 minutes of ice time tonight. Hmmmmmmm.......

Yotes arena confirmed to only hold 4,700 for next year. Get this team sold/moved already. This is pathetic.

You said it's "easy" to score 40-points as a 3rd-liner, then cited two outlier examples who weren't even really used as third-liners, on teams filled with veteran star players, who got plenty of time on PP units that were ranked top-3 in the league.

It's nowhere close to a fair comparison or expectation. That's the part that you don't seem to grasp.

Just look around the league. Most guys who are getting third-line usage and a little bit of PP time are not scoring 40+ points. The Flyers barely had three players on the entire team pass 40 points this season, mostly because the PP was so bad. If 2022-23 is anything like this season, Frost is already behind the 8-ball, no matter what line he's on.
- Tomahawk

I stopped reading the moment you claimed I used the word “easy”, which I never did. I said asking for 40 points isn’t asking a lot of Frost and if he’s good enough, he’ll overcome. Twisting what a third line player could potentially do, by using the ice time argument as if ice time can’t go up and down was your downfall.

I agree Joel is too slight and really was just another injury prone middle sixer this year.
- wbroudy

Slight? He’s put on significant weight, and he’s been strong all season. He was even playing through torn ligament damage in his shooting hand. The guy has spent the last couple of seasons shutting every critic up who actually watched basketball. Even his harshest critic Shaq loves and respects him now.

Ben was the weak one. Embiid is a freight train in the league. He listened to critics and coaches, and changed himself and his game.

It was a bad stroke of luck. He caught a vicious elbow to the eye.

As for the Phillies, I don’t know what to say other than my hatred for our bullpen the past few years is just below my hatred for the Mets.

Of course it was the Mets. It had to be the Mets. Dear God it just HAD to be the Fu¢king METS.

This just in. That Makar guy is pretty good! Sure glad Hexy saved us from him and gave us that stud named Nolan Patrick! Taryn Hatcher with the star of the game interview for TNT.

This just in. That Makar guy is pretty good! Sure glad Hexy saved us from him and gave us that stud named Nolan Patrick! Taryn Hatcher with the star of the game interview for TNT.
- Phillywhiteout

Jeez I wish we could beat this horse a little more. It doesn't happen nearly enough.

Good points! I'm a Provy fan but he is at the point where he should be carrying/mentoring someone else, as he has been around 6 years and is getting paid to be a star/leader on this team. Circumstances have not been ideal, but as someone else posted recently, he shouldn't need a babysitter like Nisky or Ellis to help him succeed.
- Don Nachbaur

Honestly, I wish this nonsense of mentoring and carrying would stop. We just need Provorov to play better. Calling it a babysitter is also nonsense. He plays on a team that is really bad in defensive coverage, spends far too much time defending and doesn't move the puck well to transition out. He also spends a lot of time playing with a partner that is not a legit top pairing defender. Hey, I guess a legit top pairing is only formed by one player. Not two. Good to know.

Frost isn't 23 yet. This was his 22 year old season, and he didn't have a 21 year old season due to the should injury.

Some players just take longer. Think Dallas now regrets simply giving up on Nichushkin at age 24 after his 0G, 10A, 0 PIM in 56 game season (his 4th North American pro season)? He's now a 25G, 52-point scorer for Colorado.

I will say it again: Give Frost more than the 11th most PP time among forwards. Keep him on a line with 2 bonafide NHL players and not two good AHL/NHL fill-in players and you'll see his production increase significantly.

Much of this season was spent unlearning things that worked for him in the OHL but not the NHL. Eventually, he did start moving his feet more consistently, using his body better, and then regaining lost confidence. As with Tippett, Frost's points over the final 15 games didn't match the quality of his play.

On Exit Day, Couturier called the line with Frost and Tippett the team's best line in the final 10-15 games.
- bmeltzer

I'm not a Frost fan but I think the Flyers must give Frost and all their promising young players a full season of play under a new coach to see what they can do. The worst thing Fletcher can do it overreact to the current season and make more short-sighted trades. I don't mind moving on from JVR and maybe signing a few veteran depth guys, but other than less is more in this off season IMO.

Honestly, I wish this nonsense of mentoring and carrying would stop. We just need Provorov to play better. Calling it a babysitter is also nonsense. He plays on a team that is really bad in defensive coverage, spends far too much time defending and doesn't move the puck well to transition out. He also spends a lot of time playing with a partner that is not a legit top pairing defender. Hey, I guess a legit top pairing is only formed by one player. Not two. Good to know.
- MJL

Yes, the team currently is a poorly structured defensive team, but Provorov is part of the problem. Its not like he is playing well and its his partners that are screwing up all the time. In the end I agree with you in that if the Flyers are going to improve next season, Provorov and all their veteran players have to be healthy and play much better.

I'm not a Frost fan but I think the Flyers must give Frost and all their promising young players a full season of play under a new coach to see what they can do. The worst thing Fletcher can do it overreact to the current season and make more short-sighted trades. I don't mind moving on from JVR and maybe signing a few veteran depth guys, but other than less is more in this off season IMO.
- jd250

So you've moved off of your previous opinion that Frost stinks and won't be a regular NHL player?

Yes, the team currently is a poorly structured defensive team, but Provorov is part of the problem. Its not like he is playing well and its his partners that are screwing up all the time. In the end I agree with you in that if the Flyers are going to improve next season, Provorov and all their veteran players have to be healthy and play much better.
- jd250

Yes, he is part of the problem because he hasn't played as well as he is capable of. First and foremost, he needs to correct that. However that does not remove the other factors from the equation.

Good points! I'm a Provy fan but he is at the point where he should be carrying/mentoring someone else, as he has been around 6 years and is getting paid to be a star/leader on this team. Circumstances have not been ideal, but as someone else posted recently, he shouldn't need a babysitter like Nisky or Ellis to help him succeed.
- Don Nachbaur

But my point was that none of those top dmen we want him to play like are carrying anyone. They all have quality partners that while they may not be stars, they most definitely do not need to be carried.

Jeez I wish we could beat this horse a little more. It doesn't happen nearly enough.
- MBFlyerfan

You don't have to read it turd breath. It's actually meant to be humorous, but you seem like one of those folks that was born without a sense of humor. Thanks!

Many don't realize that the percentage of players who make other players better is a very small percentage of players. The issue is expectations out of whack. Expecting Provorov to elevate other players playing in the conditions that he plays in is an out of whack expectation. What information can you provide that shows that Braun carried the pair? Save yourself some time because you can't.



As does every player in the league other than the elite.



So many have no clue what leadership is. It's not what is said in a press conference although how Provorov handled that was not ideal. He is an emotional player who doesn't like to lose and knows he can play better and is extremely frustrated. Leadership is playing your heart out game after game and taking on the responsibility he does.
The basis that you've used for claiming that his leadership skills are nonexistent is not sound.
- MJL

So glad you were able to fill us all in on what leadership is Cliff. So many had no clue. Is there anything else you want to add to the definition of leadership? Or is that it?