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Forums :: Blog World :: Kevin Francis: Dorion and Smith - Fix defense for team success next season!
Author Message
Bartacus
Ottawa Senators
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 01.08.2019

May 12 @ 3:12 PM ET
That would certainly be a very reasonable use of the #7 overall pick, though it would depend on what additional assets would be required.
- khawk


Yeah it's that 'additional assets' business I am wary of. I look back to Lou trading the 9th overall pick (Bo Horvat) in 2013 to Vancouver for Schneider, who he then gave a 36M contract which ended very poorly. I can't see why Winnipeg would shop PLD when they can certainly afford to keep him, unless it's to test the waters to see if they can hose any of the other GMs. It's worth exploring sure, but Dorion likes to get wet a little too much for my tastes.
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

May 12 @ 3:42 PM ET
Yeah it's that 'additional assets' business I am wary of. I look back to Lou trading the 9th overall pick (Bo Horvat) in 2013 to Vancouver for Schneider, who he then gave a 36M contract which ended very poorly. I can't see why Winnipeg would shop PLD when they can certainly afford to keep him, unless it's to test the waters to see if they can hose any of the other GMs. It's worth exploring sure, but Dorion likes to get wet a little too much for my tastes.
- Bartacus

Well, and it could also become a "Duchene v2.0" situation, if they don't manage to retain the player longer-term. Plus, you have to consider what WPG is looking for, or why they'd even consider a trade. You're right that it's not a matter of cap space, but they have guys like Perfetti ready to step up offensively, and it's on D where they're really vulnerable. That's a bad problem for a team in a competitive window, especially when you consider their 3.1GA/GP came with Hellebuyck in goal. That said, high-quality top-4D upgrades are in short supply, so I'd put it out there that the most feasible Dubois trade scenario could be a 3-way deal with ARI, where the 3 biggest assets moved are Dubois (to OTT), Chychrun (to WPG), and the #7 pick (to ARI)... with OTT adding at least another couple of decent prospects/picks.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

May 12 @ 7:04 PM ET
What would you give up for Chychrun and don't complicate the deal? Just Chychrun.
- Whatisavailable


To Arizona
D Erik Brannstrom
7th Overall Pick

To Ottawa
Jakob Chychrun
2022 1st (COL or CAR, whichever is lower on draft day)

That simple enough?
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

May 12 @ 9:04 PM ET
To Arizona
D Erik Brannstrom
7th Overall Pick

To Ottawa
Jakob Chychrun
2022 1st (COL or CAR, whichever is lower on draft day)

That simple enough?

- AlfieisKing

Arizona needs to sweeten that deal.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

May 12 @ 9:25 PM ET
Arizona needs to sweeten that deal.
- Whatisavailable


2022 1st (COL or CAR)
AND
2022 2nd (ARI has 4)
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

May 12 @ 9:47 PM ET
2022 1st (COL or CAR)
AND
2022 2nd (ARI has 4)

- AlfieisKing

Funny guy!
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

May 13 @ 12:21 AM ET
Funny guy!
- Whatisavailable

You want to come up with something yourself there? OR is criticizing without coming up with your own idea your thing?
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

May 13 @ 7:57 AM ET
You want to come up with something yourself there? OR is criticizing without coming up with your own idea your thing?
- AlfieisKing

To Arizona
D Erik Brannstrom
7th Overall Pick

To Ottawa
Jakob Chychrun
2022 1st (COL or CAR, whichever is lower on draft day)

When you posted this and asked me if it was simple enough for me I thought you were joking. I did not realize you were being serious. You get my vote for the next Ottawa GM.

Is your real name George McPhee?
david22
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 04.15.2008

May 13 @ 8:49 AM ET
Fiala didn't have a great playoffs.

Make of that what you will.
PuckPix
Joined: 01.12.2021

May 13 @ 9:26 AM ET
Fiala didn't have a great playoffs.

Make of that what you will.

- david22


I know Kevin has said it in here about Fiala but I watched a lot of the MIN/STL series and Fiala was a massive no show. Saying he didn't have a great playoff is a massive understatement. He wanted no part of the Blues physicality. He was a -4 and had garbage assists in Game 4/5. Last night, he was dreadful. Take a look back at his past playoff appearances, he struggled but so did Kaprizov. When Kaprizov didn't struggle during the regular season Fiala benefitted from his linemate. Fiala never produces his own offense, he needs to be facilitated all the time and can't be relied upon. Wouldn't want him on my team for what he is going to ask for. He had a career year, guys with career years like him generally don't hit those numbers again. One great year, shouldn't mean a massive contract. I would stay far away from him.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 11:28 AM ET
To Arizona
D Erik Brannstrom
7th Overall Pick

To Ottawa
Jakob Chychrun
2022 1st (COL or CAR, whichever is lower on draft day)

When you posted this and asked me if it was simple enough for me I thought you were joking. I did not realize you were being serious. You get my vote for the next Ottawa GM.

Is your real name George McPhee?

- Whatisavailable


Sign me up for that trade.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 11:31 AM ET
There's not much point in re-hashing all of our complaints. We've all said what we think, and largely we're all on the same page.

But nothing will be changing until there's a change in ownership. The "board" or whatever was left in place by EM left enough control and leeway for Dorion to fire McGuire so.....that in itself tells us that Dorion has the confidence of the board until the girls decide what they're going to do with the team.

All of this trickle down conjecture leads to....just that....conjecture. Smith must have Dorion's confidence because he hired him. Dorion must like the way Smith is using the team or he'd have stuck his nose into Smith's running of the team sooner. Even the trade away of J.Brown didn't really happen because the fans screamed but because the Bruins wanted some size.

The lack of call ups for JBD and Thompson coupled with the other offensive call ups, could just be because of injury OR could be the master plan none of us are in on. Additionally, Dorion probably sees Mann as a possible threat to be hired as coach or the other brother as GM or who knows so.....who cares if he says Thompson is "overbaked" Dorion and Smith will decide when they get called up and given valuable NHL experience. And it clearly wasn't meant for this season.

Best case scenario for me.
Team sells to Minto guy. He wins bid. He makes arena.
He starts bringing back the smart brains that had us in the play offs every year.
Luke Richardson gets head coach, a smart offensive brain comes in to run the power play (Spezza after he retires this year) and we begin to move forward with some confidence.

- Octavarium


Great post, as long as ownership and this ridiculous stays the same, nothing will change. I can't even begin to imagine these 2 daughters in their 20's running this team or a least having a ton of say. It's such a friggin joke and you know Smith and Dorionn are loving it because they have both have no business keeping their jobs based on results for their time here respectively.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 11:41 AM ET
don't be mistaken... the "Leafs Nation" listens intently to every word he puts out...

ever since he said the "Leafs should have taken Laine over Matthews"


seriously... he's worth the laughs

- BorjeFan4Ever


The problem with this guy is that he thinks he can tell everyone how they should feel or how they should think when it comes to their team. It is ok to have your opinion but don't force it on others then tell them they are wrong over and over. Or that they are being negative, trying to control what the board thinks.

The mere fact that this idiot thinks Laine or Matthews tells you he isn't too well. I don't ever go in the Leafs threads but I appreciate you stopping in to tell us about this fool. He is worth the laughs as he is a definitely a few bricks short a full load lol.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 11:42 AM ET
Well, and it could also become a "Duchene v2.0" situation, if they don't manage to retain the player longer-term. Plus, you have to consider what WPG is looking for, or why they'd even consider a trade. You're right that it's not a matter of cap space, but they have guys like Perfetti ready to step up offensively, and it's on D where they're really vulnerable. That's a bad problem for a team in a competitive window, especially when you consider their 3.1GA/GP came with Hellebuyck in goal. That said, high-quality top-4D upgrades are in short supply, so I'd put it out there that the most feasible Dubois trade scenario could be a 3-way deal with ARI, where the 3 biggest assets moved are Dubois (to OTT), Chychrun (to WPG), and the #7 pick (to ARI)... with OTT adding at least another couple of decent prospects/picks.
- khawk

Great point, as this is the same GM that was obsessed with Duchene and I mean TOTALLY obsessed with trading for him at all costs then he overpays then a year later realizes the team needs to rebuild but at the same time couldn't recognize that the team had over achieved and were getting old fast with the core vets. Man oh mother alive, another reason Dorion shouldn't be GM!
david22
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 04.15.2008

May 13 @ 12:27 PM ET
Anyone seeing a lot of Nick Paul in the Leafs Tampa series? He should have set up the game winner had Hagel not wiffed.

Is he just being properly utilized, or is he a set of fresh legs that can play more minutes on that team.
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

May 13 @ 1:00 PM ET
Great point, as this is the same GM that was obsessed with Duchene and I mean TOTALLY obsessed with trading for him at all costs then he overpays then a year later realizes the team needs to rebuild but at the same time couldn't recognize that the team had over achieved and were getting old fast with the core vets. Man oh mother alive, another reason Dorion shouldn't be GM!
- LawyerSens4Life

I've been on record here that I never minded the Duchene trade. It got the team a bonafide 1st line centre. The package to get him was heavy, Kyle Turris, Shane Bowers, Andrew Hammond, a first-round pick and a third-round pick. Only the 1st round pick of Bowen Byram is significant in hindsight. Duchene is still a quality centre who had a bounce back season and was over a point per game.

The error was not realizing where the team was in reality and never worked Duchene into long term plans. If we had Duchene on this team, we probably aren't discussing bringing in a top 6 forward like we are now. But then again, why in the world would a guy sign here to be a bottom feeder for several years.

I am not a fan of Dorion, but I feel the Duchene trade wasn't as awful as many make it out. The error was team assessment and asset management. The team did use the pick they acquired from Columbus to take Lassi Thompson. He no Bowen Byram, obviously.
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

May 13 @ 1:23 PM ET
If Dubois is a possibility to trade for, I'd be much more game for that instead of Fiala. He lacks the right shot handleless but would add more depth to the top 6 undoubtably. In my mind, a 7th overall pick should get that deal done if the Jets are looking to retool. Top 10 picks should have significant trade value.

Depending on what happens with Florida in the playoffs, Claude Giroux could be a decent signing if the the term is right and only costs you cash and no assets.

The more I think about defence targets, the more I like the idea of trying to snag Dumba from Minny with the cap situation. If you move the 1st rounder for Dubois, you will have to get more creative with a trade but if you add Dumba to the defence corps, you can afford to give up a prospect like Thomson or Bernard Docker plus.

Chychrun would also be a nice addition. He is left handiness, so there would need to be some slot juggling, but could be a fit. The price tag is likely higher for him than it would be for Dumba. Yotes seem to be in no hurry to move him unless the price is right.

Some stars have to align but, I don't think having these 3 types of move is totally unrealistic to happen. Especially, if you want to show the players, fans, and league that you want to make a move to be competitive.
spazzbot
Location: Maple Zombie
Joined: 02.14.2013

May 13 @ 1:29 PM ET
The Duchene trade was Ottawa pushing all in. They thought they could go for it again. Didnt work out but they had the guts to do it. I dont have a problem with that. Its the part of the narrative of cheapness that gets bypassed.
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

May 13 @ 1:35 PM ET
The Duchene trade was Ottawa pushing all in. They thought they could go for it again. Didnt work out but they had the guts to do it. I dont have a problem with that. Its the part of the narrative of cheapness that gets bypassed.
- spazzbot

Part of the reason Dorion and co were ok moving Turris is that they didn't want to pay him to a lucrative contract. Great choice in hindsight but you are bang on that cheapness was a factor.
SensFan25
Ottawa Senators
Location: ON
Joined: 08.24.2006

May 13 @ 1:53 PM ET
Anyone seeing a lot of Nick Paul in the Leafs Tampa series? He should have set up the game winner had Hagel not wiffed.

Is he just being properly utilized, or is he a set of fresh legs that can play more minutes on that team.

- david22

A fresh start and chasing your Stanley Cup dream on a true contender would certainly be a big part of the improvement. Coaching + proper deployment would also be a part of it for sure.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 1:59 PM ET
Part of the reason Dorion and co were ok moving Turris is that they didn't want to pay him to a lucrative contract. Great choice in hindsight but you are bang on that cheapness was a factor.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0


Yes very true. But that's why is so annoying to hear people say we are a budget team. Look at the amount of wasted dollars over the past 2 seasons on players. Now they are paying McGuire 2 years to go away, I bet he was getting at least 500k per year comparable to what he was taking in TV, DJ is only making in the 750k range as reported on a few sites. This team can swallow the 750k on DJ with the other great coaches out there to hire. If this team legitimately wants to challenge for the playoffs next year, they need a structured defensive system, something that anyone with half a brain watching knows Ottawa doesn't have one.
LawyerSens4Life
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 03.23.2022

May 13 @ 2:14 PM ET
A fresh start and chasing your Stanley Cup dream on a true contender would certainly be a big part of the improvement. Coaching + proper deployment would also be a part of it for sure.
- SensFan25


TB has 2 assistant coaches on their bench more competent than DJ Smith!
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

May 13 @ 2:21 PM ET
Yes very true. But that's why is so annoying to hear people say we are a budget team. Look at the amount of wasted dollars over the past 2 seasons on players. Now they are paying McGuire 2 years to go away, I bet he was getting at least 500k per year comparable to what he was taking in TV, DJ is only making in the 750k range as reported on a few sites. This team can swallow the 750k on DJ with the other great coaches out there to hire. If this team legitimately wants to challenge for the playoffs next year, they need a structured defensive system, something that anyone with half a brain watching knows Ottawa doesn't have one.
- LawyerSens4Life

For sure. To me there is two parts to that. First, as you say, quality coaching and deployment needs to happen. DJ has had his shot for 3 years and it just isn't working. The only reason some players have "broken out" is because of lineup issues and injuries. The fact Zub was not in the lineup to start the 2020-2021 season and then turned into one of the best d-men on the team once he was finally deployed should have woken people up.

Second, you have to have quality d-men to deploy. At times, you have to sympathize with DJ as he has a lack of a robust NHL d-corps. DJ isn't doing himself any favours but outside of Chabot and Zub, you can make a serious argument that the rest of the d-men in the organization would not make lineups on most other NHL teams. That's something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps it can be done internally with the likes of Sanderson, Thomson, etc coming up, but that's tremendous pressure on your prospects to round out your d-corps.

It seems like DJ is here to stay for the 2022 season. It will be interesting if the "budget" stuff improves without Melnyk himself overseeing things.

If Dorion does not make significant moves this summer, I highly suspect DJ and Dorion could be on the chopping block by Christmas. The current roster with the current coaching staff is not going to significantly improve overnight.
Sens Writer
Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 08.19.2013

May 13 @ 2:36 PM ET
I know Kevin has said it in here about Fiala but I watched a lot of the MIN/STL series and Fiala was a massive no show. Saying he didn't have a great playoff is a massive understatement. He wanted no part of the Blues physicality. He was a -4 and had garbage assists in Game 4/5. Last night, he was dreadful. Take a look back at his past playoff appearances, he struggled but so did Kaprizov. When Kaprizov didn't struggle during the regular season Fiala benefitted from his linemate. Fiala never produces his own offense, he needs to be facilitated all the time and can't be relied upon. Wouldn't want him on my team for what he is going to ask for. He had a career year, guys with career years like him generally don't hit those numbers again. One great year, shouldn't mean a massive contract. I would stay far away from him.
- PuckPix

I have absolutely no idea why so many people want Fiala. There are major red flags all over the place with him, including now having just 5pts in his last 13 playoff games. Factor in that you're buying high not only in terms of bloated regular season production from playing with Kaprizov, but also at his absolute maximum RFA age, and it's just not the kind of move they should be making. Dubois/Giroux are substantially better options, and beyond that I'd rather see them pursue other veteran UFA vs. over-investing both $$$ and major assets in a high-profile trade for Fiala.
sens4life1971
Ottawa Senators
Location: smiths falls, ON
Joined: 02.16.2014

May 13 @ 5:24 PM ET
Yes very true. But that's why is so annoying to hear people say we are a budget team. Look at the amount of wasted dollars over the past 2 seasons on players. Now they are paying McGuire 2 years to go away, I bet he was getting at least 500k per year comparable to what he was taking in TV, DJ is only making in the 750k range as reported on a few sites. This team can swallow the 750k on DJ with the other great coaches out there to hire. If this team legitimately wants to challenge for the playoffs next year, they need a structured defensive system, something that anyone with half a brain watching knows Ottawa doesn't have one.
- LawyerSens4Life

1-3-1 style 😂 boring but works lol
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