I mean the one great move was finding Panarin, but then he undid by trading him for Saad straight up.

He also gave up Byfuglien for nothing (Kevin Hayes) draft pick, traded away Leddy for nothing, Teuvo to dump his bad Bickell contract, Raanta for nothing, and that Hartman trade is really aging poorly. Seabrook and Anisimov contracts were brutal when he made them and both aged even worse than you could imagine.

But the worst thing he did by far is refusing to rebuild for far too long until we were left with a garbage team and garbage system. I'm sorry, forgot he declared a rebuild (already too late) and than gave up on it after one year and traded for Seth Jones, which he again gave a horrible contract too.

It wasn't all bad. But after some early success it was horrible decision after horrible decision over the last few 4-5 years of his tenure.
- Hawkeynation

The further you get away from the glory run the more you start to realize how bad Bowman, Q, and others in hockey ops were at their jobs in evaluating prospects. Rushing them, trading them, etc.....Some trades were perfectly fine as the window to win was wide open....but Davidson essentially has NOTHING in regards to a top flight prospect in the system...people can preach "patience" with Dach all they want but meanwhile kids in his draft class are passing him by....you can't end up with a 3C with the 3rd overall pick. Reichel....no clue what he will be....what else is there to be excited about with a younger talent? DeBrincat is the 1 piece but to quickly and likely correctly rebuild this disaster they would need to entertain trading 12 because he doesn't have a NMC and likely brings back a maybe comparable or close to comparable return you would get trading 88.

I just don't want to see a team not good enough to be a contender but good enough from getting a top pick because they 100% need an influx of younger, skilled guys at almost every key position to get back on top in the league.

There's plenty to complain about with Stan. What is generally overlooked, to put it mildly, is that the 2010 Hawks = 1985 Bears without the retooling after the 1st Cup.
- mohel

Apples to oranges.

85 bears didn't lose guys to a cap world....do the 80s Islanders and Oilers win their multiple cups in a cap world? Not a chance.

i would say 2016 Cubs=85 Bears......players got egos, they choked year after year in the playoffs after winning a title......

The further you get away from the glory run the more you start to realize how bad Bowman, Q, and others in hockey ops were at their jobs in evaluating prospects. Rushing them, trading them, etc.....Some trades were perfectly fine as the window to win was wide open....but Davidson essentially has NOTHING in regards to a top flight prospect in the system...people can preach "patience" with Dach all they want but meanwhile kids in his draft class are passing him by....you can't end up with a 3C with the 3rd overall pick. Reichel....no clue what he will be....what else is there to be excited about with a younger talent? DeBrincat is the 1 piece but to quickly and likely correctly rebuild this disaster they would need to entertain trading 12 because he doesn't have a NMC and likely brings back a maybe comparable or close to comparable return you would get trading 88.

I just don't want to see a team not good enough to be a contender but good enough from getting a top pick because they 100% need an influx of younger, skilled guys at almost every key position to get back on top in the league.
- SteveRain

See Arizona. 2 3rds in Turris, Strome, another 3rd this year. A bunch of 5-12s.

For the most part, it was the same players carrying the team and the consequences of the hard cap. Even then the value obtained from the retooling and moving on from some players was by and large squandered.

The 85 Bears fell apart because Buddy Ryan left and Ditka had no idea how to handle the defense and McMahon being injured was a problem. Little bit different. It was the same team for the most part that came back.
- fattybeef

Yep. And those same players went out in the 1st round in 2011 and 2012. The difficulty most here have in acknowledging the impact Stan had in bringing the 2nd and 3rd Cup teams to Hawk fans is mind-boggling.

Two things can be true at once; Stan played a big role in two Cups, AND it was time for a change.

Are you and Mohel saying that Bowman had a good run from about 2016 until he was fired?
- SteveRain

No.

Apples to oranges.

85 bears didn't lose guys to a cap world....do the 80s Islanders and Oilers win their multiple cups in a cap world? Not a chance.

i would say 2016 Cubs=85 Bears......players got egos, they choked year after year in the playoffs after winning a title......
- SteveRain

Hardly apples-to-oranges. Without the retooling after the 2010 Cup, the 2010 Hawks ARE the '85 Bears, and the 2016 Cubs.

Hardly apples-to-oranges. Without the retooling after the 2010 Cup, the 2010 Hawks ARE the '85 Bears, and the 2016 Cubs.
- mohel

Again....what key players did the 85 bears and 16 cubs lose IMMMEDIATELY after the season because of financial reasons? 85 bears, if memory serves correctly, went 14-2 and then p-ssed themselves because Flutie had to be qb vs Washington. Cubs....they got peak performance out of ALL their guys at once and never got the same output from them at once...again.

2010 Hawks had to break up because of the cap. You keep that same team together and do they win again? I am sure they do....the 85 bears and 16 Cubs had chances to win again with almost the EXACT same team....10 hawks didn't get that chance.

Yep. And those same players went out in the 1st round in 2011 and 2012. The difficulty most here have in acknowledging the impact Stan had in bringing the 2nd and 3rd Cup teams to Hawk fans is mind-boggling.

Two things can be true at once; Stan played a big role in two Cups, AND it was time for a change.
- mohel

I think the correct word from the 2010-11 to 2013-2015 teams is fine tuning.

Lots of pieces were already in place his biggest accomplishment was replacing Campbell with Oduya, turning versteeg into Stalberg and then reacquiring Versteeg....signing Brad Richards....acquiring Vermette thanks to Kane's injury.

THis wasn't some massive rebuild or retool...this was a fine tuning of adding players to a deep and talented core.....

Everything that goes wrong with the Hawks for the next ten years will be Bowman's fault on the Board of Doom.
- mohel

As well it should be.

For the most part, it was the same players carrying the team and the consequences of the hard cap. Even then the value obtained from the retooling and moving on from some players was by and large squandered.

The 85 Bears fell apart because Buddy Ryan left and Ditka had no idea how to handle the defense and McMahon being injured was a problem. Little bit different. It was the same team for the most part that came back.
- fattybeef

Vince Tobin was better statistically than Ryan running the defense. The Packers cheap shot ended McMahon's career and Ditka was stuck with Tomczack and Harbaugh while SF had Montana and Young. Losing Gualt and Marshall also hurt.

The further you get away from the glory run the more you start to realize how bad Bowman, Q, and others in hockey ops were at their jobs in evaluating prospects. Rushing them, trading them, etc.....Some trades were perfectly fine as the window to win was wide open....but Davidson essentially has NOTHING in regards to a top flight prospect in the system...people can preach "patience" with Dach all they want but meanwhile kids in his draft class are passing him by....you can't end up with a 3C with the 3rd overall pick. Reichel....no clue what he will be....what else is there to be excited about with a younger talent? DeBrincat is the 1 piece but to quickly and likely correctly rebuild this disaster they would need to entertain trading 12 because he doesn't have a NMC and likely brings back a maybe comparable or close to comparable return you would get trading 88.

I just don't want to see a team not good enough to be a contender but good enough from getting a top pick because they 100% need an influx of younger, skilled guys at almost every key position to get back on top in the league.
- SteveRain

You just got done saying that the Hawks gave up on young guys too quick, then rag on Dach because he isn’t lighting it up yet.

It’s all just impatience. No one likes watching the team lose, and they want the quickest fix possible. That’s not a good recipe for sustained success.

You just got done saying that the Hawks gave up on young guys too quick, then rag on Dach because he isn’t lighting it up yet.

It’s all just impatience. No one likes watching the team lose, and they want the quickest fix possible. That’s not a good recipe for sustained success.
- Chunk

If you haven't figured it out by now I dont know much.......

I am a fan, so I can have my reservations about Dach.....but as an organization and who employs professionals to evaluate and develop players....yeah, they 100% gave up on guys too quickly, or shipped guys out because coaches didn't like them, or whatever else....I am not saying this barren system is 100% on Bowman as Q likely had a hand it as well......

I am HOPEFUL we see a light go on for young Kirby next year because this team desperately needs him to be some sort of impact player....and while those expectations and where he is drafted may not be fair for Kirby, you also have to start weighing when do you look to trade him while he still holds some high value to possibly get another kid from another organization who may need a fresh start....see Strome for Schmaltz.

For everyone complaining about the Jones contract, myself included, look at what the Oilers are stuck with in Nurse at the same cap hit. It's as if all you have to do is eat 25 minutes of ice time and you'll make North of $7M.

Trying to put an end to the "trade Dinky" talk now. Only a moron would trade him. He's young enough to make it through the rebuild. Trade him and that's another player you have to replace. This means, unless he brings back two bonefide players you went backwards trading him because he has to be replaced in the future. Only sense in trading him is getting a real player plus picks. Stranger things have happened?

For the most part, it was the same players carrying the team and the consequences of the hard cap. Even then the value obtained from the retooling and moving on from some players was by and large squandered.

The 85 Bears fell apart because Buddy Ryan left and Ditka had no idea how to handle the defense and McMahon being injured was a problem. Little bit different. It was the same team for the most part that came back.
- fattybeef

I will also add, after the SB win, a year after the 86 season the league went on strike, replacement player era, and Ditka was calling out his own players because of his big mouth and it never sat well with the Vets.

Vince Tobin was better statistically than Ryan running the defense. The Packers cheap shot ended McMahon's career and Ditka was stuck with Tomczack and Harbaugh while SF had Montana and Young. Losing Gualt and Marshall also hurt.
- rpeters01

I could write a 10,000 world post that would make everyone's eyes bleed regarding those Bears teams.....

Don't forget Flutie who was also dog $hit early on and likely was a square peg for ego maniac Dikta's round hole offense.

SF and Walsh's quick 3 step west coast offense and those slants quickly exposed the 46 defense where guys would be left wide open.....if you go back and watch clips of the 87/88/89 playoff losses you will see tight ends, receivers get running starts and catch balls wide open because safeties and linebackers couldn't get to the QB and/or knock down the pass.

There was also a fantastic documentary on Belichek who I think it was in 90 or 91 had watched video on the Bears when they came to Giants stadium after beating the Saints that they knew the tendencies of play calls and stuffed Anderson all over the field.

Losing Marshall hurt them for sure....1 of my all time favorite Bears. Cheap @ss McCaskeys.......

For everyone complaining about the Jones contract, myself included, look at what the Oilers are stuck with in Nurse at the same cap hit. It's as if all you have to do is eat 25 minutes of ice time and you'll make North of $7M.
- Dieselhead

You see how bad Keith looked last night? Woof.

Trying to put an end to the "trade Dinky" talk now. Only a moron would trade him. He's young enough to make it through the rebuild. Trade him and that's another player you have to replace. This means, unless he brings back two bonefide players you went backwards trading him because he has to be replaced in the future. Only sense in trading him is getting a real player plus picks. Stranger things have happened?
- rpeters01

I am not advocating giving him away....but to your point if they can get a HUGE return that helps them speed forward the rebuild....you have to consider it. He is the only player they truly have where Davidson has free reign to talk to anyone....so imagine that bidding war? IF, and that's a HUGE IF< he were to become available. Everyone else worth something has some sort of NMC or NTC so Davidson has to operate in a smaller market.

I like DeBrincat...when everyone was blasting the kid to trade him because he was having a horrible unlucky year, either hitting posts, getting robbed, or just missing the net you could see he was still getting chances and noticeable. Sign he was doing everything right but score....lot different vs guys who disappear for long stretches.

I think that they will talk to Kane and the cat then their intentions will probably dictate how to proceed to add 2nd and 3rd rounders by way of their defense corp.


Teams will find value in Conner Murphy, and their would be irony to the Blackhawks dispatching him to Columbus (where he played minor hockey in 2008-09 with Ohio Blue Jackets) for their second rounder (around #44 slot) after they hit long term home runs with the early first rounders.
Murphy might be what the Bluejackets need long term, a cost effective pro on the backline while they continue to add Kent Johnson to Cole Dillinger, and the two newbies (I think one will be a Czech/slovakian defender) and transition two young backline picks in Corson Ceulemans and Stanislav Svozil.
Former Blackhawk Milan Tichy has always had the ear of Jarmo Kekalainen, thus the Czechia connections I am projecting in their 2022 picks.

So I do not doubt they clear many of the vet defenders no matter the outcome in the next couple.

Play the kids...and pray they don't lose confidence....
- wiz1901

I hope so Wiz

I don't get all this complaining about Bowman

I thought he did a great job until the Danault trade, then he sucked.

I think he drafted and traded for some nice young pieces last few years. Not a big fan of his FA's but i think the Blackhawks, blessing in disguise, the league has removed our GM and we have a fresh hockey mind steering the ship.

Encouraged by some of the young players in the org and hope it continues.

Apples to oranges.

85 bears didn't lose guys to a cap world....do the 80s Islanders and Oilers win their multiple cups in a cap world? Not a chance.

i would say 2016 Cubs=85 Bears......players got egos, they choked year after year in the playoffs after winning a title......
- SteveRain

No, their bull pen sucked, and the year after they started calling the high strike.

I thought Chapman's arm was going to fall off before we won the whole thing.

No, their bull pen sucked, and the year after they started calling the high strike.

I thought Chapman's arm was going to fall off before we won the whole thing.
- BetweenTheDots

agree to disagree.....they waited too long to shake up their core, and sold way too low. They also had the great Theo sign some horrendous deals which also tied up monies they could have better spent elsewhere. Still paying Jason heyward who I dont' think has sniffed .250 avg, and then the immortal Tyler Chatwood....the reliever who blew out his back tying his shoes....and so on.

IMO..Theo Epstein is by far the most overrated GM in Chicago sports history.

You know the interesting thing about comparing the Blackhawks to the Bears is both orgs had the owners pass away. McCaskeys came in and destroyed what Halas built and Rocky came in and embraced the path of the team and was willing to pay Hossa all that money to put us over the top.

agree to disagree.....they waited too long to shake up their core, and sold way too low. They also had the great Theo sign some horrendous deals which also tied up monies they could have better spent elsewhere. Still paying Jason heyward who I dont' think has sniffed .250 avg, and then the immortal Tyler Chatwood....the reliever who blew out his back tying his shoes....and so on.

IMO..Theo Epstein is by far the most overrated GM in Chicago sports history.
- SteveRain

Yea he's terrible, brought 2 world series championships to 2 organizations with incredible droughts. I don't understand how easy you think it is to win a world championship.

Like the Sox people expect them win which is a joke because of injuries and it really comes down to how teams play in 1 run games, 2 out hits with runners in scoring position.

You see how bad Keith looked last night? Woof.
- SteveRain

Mike Smith was shakey even when making a save. When a team has no confidence that your goaltender can stop a puck, no matter if they have the most dynamic player in the game you are in trouble. Edmonton doesn't have a defense like Carolina, that can shut down shots let alone scoring chances.

You see how bad Keith looked last night? Woof.
- SteveRain

The Kings are targeting him every time he's on the ice because they know he can't keep up with them anymore.

Dude gets turnstiled on every entry.

It's kind of sad considering how much of his game was in his feet.