Have I ever said that? Come on Steve don’t fall into the trap of not admitting someone did a good job along with their mistakes just because you dislike them. Bowman had a very good run up until 2016. His mistakes culminated with a horrible trade for Jones.
- paulr

I just think this idea of how he largely rebuilt the Hawks into a prolonged Cup contender is vastly overblown. He made some very good moves via trade, UFA (signing Emery for one). Bowman did a good job of restocking some of the fringe players that were needed to put this team over the top.

he also had some disaster trades and horrific extensions paying people off of past performance instead of future....

Lastly, I think where I land in all of this is that many GMs had a hand in building the Hawks cups runs....From Smith to Stanley...some did more putting key pieces in place than others and likely 10-15 years now....assuming I am still 6 ft above ground likely same debates will be ongoing on who gets the lion share of the credit. I just found it fascinating Foley went out of his way to praise Uncle Dale over the TV broadcast, and again during his ceremony on ice.....was that pushed by somebody else? NO idea.......just found that very odd........

IN the end, bowman didn't leave KD much in the tank and I just think this rebuild is going to take a LOT longer than many feel it will UNLESS he moves a 12 and/or 88 because outside of the 2 of them....not many on this team have value either as player and/or with their presiding cap hit.

To your credit after the 2017 Nashville @ss whipping, you preached it was time to blow it up......

Yea but those fans are the same ones who complain no matter what, the day after the White Sox won the world series a fan called the score and was complaining about something Guillen did, what a moron. I'm sure Red Sox and Cubs fans were as well, chronic complainers
- BetweenTheDots

The all time best score phone call I heard relating to the Cubs was an older guy saying that Schwarber reminded him of Babe Ruth. Babe freaking Ruth......once I heard that I knew the delusion of what this team had on paper vs what it actually showed on the field led many to be so far gone....well.....they got what they deserved when they sold off on guys on the back end instead of the front end.

that is why I feel Theo is vastly overrated. The biggest thing most Cubs fans don't want to admit it is that the 2016 season was the exception to what those players did vs what they will do. From there....they would make the playoffs and then fail to reach another Series, and outside of the nationals playoff series win did this team win any other playoff series or play in games again?

Theo operated in insanity assuming he would get similar results to 2016, even though year after year it kept telling him it wasn't happening.

The Sox could be on a similar path if they don't start identifying what players to keep and what players to possibly sell high on to fill other holes.

The Kings are targeting him every time he's on the ice because they know he can't keep up with them anymore.

Dude gets turnstiled on every entry.

It's kind of sad considering how much of his game was in his feet.
- BINGO!

Yeah it was uncomfortable to see.....2017 Nashville exposed him and others pretty badly....but man oh man.....between Smith and that D corps....McDavid was none too happy after putting up 4 in a playoff game and still taking a "L"

I am just mesmerized year after year Edmonton hasn't found a goalie who they can trust. They are losing to a Kings team without Doughty, and outside of Kopitar, quick, the idiot Lemiuex, I can't name many Kings......

Dallas has put up more of a fight vs Calgary than most figured.
STL vs Minnesota is almost a dead heat.

I mean it's really Colorado's conference to lose and by the time they get to the cup final will they have been challenged and having had to play more than 5 games in any series? Think that best chance to happen is facing STL-Minn winner, assuming said winner isnt' limping into Denver with a decimated/beat up team.

I can 100% see the Rangers checking in on what it might take to get Kane, especially if they get chased in the first round.

I can't see Kane waiving a NMC for Buffalo or the Islanders, one being the reason outlined - Buffalo not a serious contender. Islanders, I mean maybe, but I think the Rangers are closer than the Isles.

The all time best score phone call I heard relating to the Cubs was an older guy saying that Schwarber reminded him of Babe Ruth. Babe freaking Ruth......once I heard that I knew the delusion of what this team had on paper vs what it actually showed on the field led many to be so far gone....well.....they got what they deserved when they sold off on guys on the back end instead of the front end.

that is why I feel Theo is vastly overrated. The biggest thing most Cubs fans don't want to admit it is that the 2016 season was the exception to what those players did vs what they will do. From there....they would make the playoffs and then fail to reach another Series, and outside of the nationals playoff series win did this team win any other playoff series or play in games again?

Theo operated in insanity assuming he would get similar results to 2016, even though year after year it kept telling him it wasn't happening.

The Sox could be on a similar path if they don't start identifying what players to keep and what players to possibly sell high on to fill other holes.
- SteveRain

They got what they deserved, yes they did Steve a world series ring. Not even you can take that way from them. I thought i saw you at the parade

I can 100% see the Rangers checking in on what it might take to get Kane, especially if they get chased in the first round.

I can't see Kane waiving a NMC for Buffalo or the Islanders, one being the reason outlined - Buffalo not a serious contender. Islanders, I mean maybe, but I think the Rangers are closer than the Isles.
- SC116

Unless Kane wants out is going to cost them.

Gallant calling them soft, is so Gallant

Yeah it was uncomfortable to see.....2017 Nashville exposed him and others pretty badly....but man oh man.....between Smith and that D corps....McDavid was none too happy after putting up 4 in a playoff game and still taking a "L"

I am just mesmerized year after year Edmonton hasn't found a goalie who they can trust. They are losing to a Kings team without Doughty, and outside of Kopitar, quick, the idiot Lemiuex, I can't name many Kings......

Dallas has put up more of a fight vs Calgary than most figured.
STL vs Minnesota is almost a dead heat.

I mean it's really Colorado's conference to lose and by the time they get to the cup final will they have been challenged and having had to play more than 5 games in any series? Think that best chance to happen is facing STL-Minn winner, assuming said winner isnt' limping into Denver with a decimated/beat up team.
- SteveRain

Holland had a chance to get MAF at the deadline - but for whatever reason he didn't get a goalie. MAF didn’t look so great last night - but even that sub-par performance was better than Smith.

I was trying to focus on Keith when he was on the ice - he had some good plays - but on two of the Kings goals he was exposed. That OT winner was really bad.

Holland had a chance to get MAF at the deadline - but for whatever reason he didn't get a goalie. MAF didn’t look so great last night - but even that sub-par performance was better than Smith.
- Chief4Feathers

I still can't believe Seattle didn't take Tarasenko.

They got what they deserved, yes they did Steve a world series ring. Not even you can take that way from them. I thought i saw you at the parade
- BetweenTheDots

Hahahaha...not a chance on the parade.

Assume you have a Chelsea jersey on order when Ricketts takes your Cubs money and goes and spends it elsewhere? Funny...I read he was griping about losing money on the Cubs even after re-doing Wrigley, purchasing the roof tops, building the hotel, and having his own TV station.....

Holland had a chance to get MAF at the deadline - but for whatever reason he didn't get a goalie. MAF didn’t look so great last night - but even that sub-par performance was better than Smith.

I was trying to focus on Keith when he was on the ice - he had some good plays - but on two of the Kings goals he was exposed. That OT winner was really bad.
- Chief4Feathers

Same....he almost got flat footed on the OT winner and Smith seemed to be way deep in his net. Can't believe that's the same Mike smith who stood on his head vs the hawks in 2012.

Hahahaha...not a chance on the parade.

Assume you have a Chelsea jersey on order when Ricketts takes your Cubs money and goes and spends it elsewhere? Funny...I read he was griping about losing money on the Cubs even after re-doing Wrigley, purchasing the roof tops, building the hotel, and having his own TV

station.....
- SteveRain

I don't even hate soccer, i don't acknowledge it, boring

Don't listen to money things by owners, don't care

I don't even hate soccer, i don't acknowledge it, boring

Don't listen to money things by owners, don't care
- BetweenTheDots

That's fair....all owners do is lie about their financial losses on a team. Especially Wirtz when he would run and cry to Crain;s annually about how loses money.

That was quickly dispelled when you read up on the EX Canucks assistant GM who broke down the massive amount of money these teams generate on playoff runs. Especially deep runs which the Hawks had a LOT of.

Unless Kane wants out is going to cost them.

Gallant calling them soft, is so Gallant
- BetweenTheDots

Isn't that what got David Quinn fired?

I still can't believe Seattle didn't take Tarasenko.
- BetweenTheDots

And MacIver thought so much of what was offered by his former (and now new) team that they took John Quenville.

Unless Kane wants out is going to cost them.

Gallant calling them soft, is so Gallant
- BetweenTheDots

Gallant calling them soft is why he can't keep a job.

BTW....the Hawks can't trade Kane unless he says ok, so.....

I don't even hate soccer, i don't acknowledge it, boring

Don't listen to money things by owners, don't care
- BetweenTheDots

Right......

I just think this idea of how he largely rebuilt the Hawks into a prolonged Cup contender is vastly overblown. He made some very good moves via trade, UFA (signing Emery for one). Bowman did a good job of restocking some of the fringe players that were needed to put this team over the top.

he also had some disaster trades and horrific extensions paying people off of past performance instead of future....

Lastly, I think where I land in all of this is that many GMs had a hand in building the Hawks cups runs....From Smith to Stanley...some did more putting key pieces in place than others and likely 10-15 years now....assuming I am still 6 ft above ground likely same debates will be ongoing on who gets the lion share of the credit. I just found it fascinating Foley went out of his way to praise Uncle Dale over the TV broadcast, and again during his ceremony on ice.....was that pushed by somebody else? NO idea.......just found that very odd........

IN the end, bowman didn't leave KD much in the tank and I just think this rebuild is going to take a LOT longer than many feel it will UNLESS he moves a 12 and/or 88 because outside of the 2 of them....not many on this team have value either as player and/or with their presiding cap hit.

To your credit after the 2017 Nashville @ss whipping, you preached it was time to blow it up......
- SteveRain

Bowman’s biggest accomplishments were: Not trying to put his stamp on the team when he took over by making some trade just for the sake of it. Sounds minor but many GMs feel the need to make a statement. He had the foresight and humility to do minor tweaking. He did a great job of maneuvering around the salary cap after the first cup. He was able to get good veterans (Handzus; Oduya and RozsIval) to fill important spots on the rosters, despite many Hawk fans mocking the players. He saw an opportunity when Kane was injured to circumvent the cap to bring in Vermette. A loophole that Tampa has also used.

I’d give him a pass on the TT, Bickell trade. As well as the Panarin trade, there was no way he would have been able to re-sign him. A few other deals were intended to prolong the championship window and or were salary cap issues.

He can’t be forgiven for the Danault trade. The Seabrook re-signing was horrendous. And he and his scouting staff didn’t draft well at all.

As for suggesting the Hawks blow it up after the 2016 season, where it’s likely they would have received a King’s ransom for Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook he would have had the fans down his throat even worse plus it would have been hard (impossible?) to move that many NMC. I expect even today not many GMs would have the stones to move out their star/franchise players in their late 20s even if becomes apparent they have no where to go but down.

That sounds like bad roster management on an aging pending UFA - and that's not a knock on Kane obviously, I've wanted the guy to "come home" for years, but a $10M expiring contract for a guy who will be 34 a month into the coming season on a team needing to rebuild. Not sure how many teams can come knocking on Chicago's door
- stashu

https://dobberhockey.com/...ults-and-lessons-learned/

FORECAST – Alex DeBrincat will outpoint Patrick Kane on a per game basis

RESULT – MISS (Kane scored at a 96-point pace, versus 78 for DeBrincat)

LESSON(S) LEARNED – Although father time does tend to claim victims Kane's age, those as talented as Kane and whose playing styles don't tend to decrease year-to-year can and do remain successful

Another season, another 95- to 100-point scoring pace for Kane. He seems well on his way to becoming an ageless wonder, as he stepped up when Chicago was a worse team and finished with the second best SOG and PPPt rates of his career. Can Kane do this forever? No; but he's only 33, and many players have maintained top tier production into their mid to late 30s, which Kane seems poised to do as well. What of DeBrincat? He was still every bit the sniper he was in 2020-21; however, inasmuch as he's not a do it yourself player like Kane – or at least not yet – he didn't pile on assists as well. It also didn't help him that unlike last season Dylan Strome played well and syphoned away points. Will DeBrincat outscore Kane at some point down the road? Conventional wisdom would suggest yes; but for the time being at least, the safest bet is to predict more of the same for Kane and hope for even better from DeBrincat, who, as a smaller player, won't hit his 400 game Breakout Threshold until next season.

And MacIver thought so much of what was offered by his former (and now new) team that they took John Quenville.
- LAHawk

Yea, I'm thinking he couldn't get out of there fast enough with Francis steering the titanic.

Everything that goes wrong with the Hawks until the Hawks win another Cup will be Bowman’s fault on the Board of Doom. So maybe 50 years +/-.
I have to advise my newborn Grandson of this so the tradition is not broken.
- Ztra

Congrats on your grandson!! ...... Been my experience that the happiest I see little ones is at minor league sports. Cheap, really family friendly with the experience geared for kids.

Isn't that what got David Quinn fired?
- LAHawk

Everyone got fired that year. Kind of like the Blackhawks this year.

Holland had a chance to get MAF at the deadline - but for whatever reason he didn't get a goalie. MAF didn’t look so great last night - but even that sub-par performance was better than Smith.

I was trying to focus on Keith when he was on the ice - he had some good plays - but on two of the Kings goals he was exposed. That OT winner was really bad.
- Chief4Feathers

Slot Keith on the 3rd pairing with 16:00-17:00 a night and he's useful otherwise he's a liability. No different than any other player he needs to be slotted correctly if you have that luxury in a hard cap world.

That's fair....all owners do is lie about their financial losses on a team. Especially Wirtz when he would run and cry to Crain;s annually about how loses money.

That was quickly dispelled when you read up on the EX Canucks assistant GM who broke down the massive amount of money these teams generate on playoff runs. Especially deep runs which the Hawks had a LOT of.
- SteveRain

All owners have the playbook of how to funnel as much money away from the main reason why people go to a hockey game or any sports team operations.

All owners have the playbook of how to funnel as much money away from the main reason why people go to a hockey game or any sports team operations.
- BetweenTheDots

Given that they split hockey related revenue, the owners and players are closer to partners than adversaries; they both have an equal interest in the growth of the game.

Slot Keith on the 3rd pairing with 16:00-17:00 a night and he's useful otherwise he's a liability. No different than any other player he needs to be slotted correctly if you have that luxury in a hard cap world.
- Mr Ricochet

There were some coverage breakdowns by the forwards during each goal - so it’s not all on Keith. Even so, it’s still tough to see him get caught flat-footed, turned and then just left in the dust.