Oh but it has.

What people are looking to do here discuss hockey, not come and see a barrage of constant complaints that the team sucks, and will probably just 'run it back' and expect different results.

Come in and post specifically should change - who should go, who should stay, who should be targeted in FA etc. The entire narrative of 'the core needs to change' without any specifics or snapping at someone who perhaps disagrees with big changes with a "Oh so run it back & expect something different" in a mocking way and/or the "they have lost in the 1st round x # of times, set records on this etc" is what people are tired of reading and quite honestly is nothing more than loudly and repetitively stating an opinion or fact and/or even the rationale for why change is needed.

Everyone gets it now, most if not all feel change is needed - let's shift to talking about what change, how and who (which is the interesting stuff really) vs unnecessarily re-stating the why it needs to happen.

I don't think ANYONE here doesn't think change needs to or is going to happen, what the change needs to be or should be is the debate to have in a mature and polite manner.
- Cush29

People may be tired of reading it, but it doesnt make some of it (not all) any less true.
I think more people are tired of the leafs losing and then people on here going off like everything is ok. All year long we heard how this team was so great and are so different and anyone who disagreed with that was attacked. Or anyone who said, "well lets see what they do in the playoffs"....not even close to a "ooh they suck" comment, but a rational expectation, was attacked and called a hater.

Some people get really emotionally invested in their team, its been less than a week since they've been eliminated, less than a few days since the useless press conference, emotions for some are high I guess.
Agreed, no excuse or reason for insults or name calling.
But neither of the above were in my og post.

Edit: I didnt see your other reply before posting this, my bad if there any repeats or items covered in your reply.

Engvall should be traded for a roll of stick tape and replaced with Robertson. Change my mind. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

They are not the same kind of player.

Engvall is much better suited for a bottom 6 role than Robertson at this point of their careers. I'd dare say the giraffe helps the Leafs more in that situation than a learning Robertson who needs to be put in an offensive role to thrive.

Did I succeed?

Well you could probably move him if half his salary is retained. Or you could demote him and capture a mill in salary cap.
- bobbyisno1

I asked the question before, didn't really get a response. Perhaps because most assumed I was proving a point, but I actually genuinely don't remember a scenario and would like a comparable.

Question: what was the last contract 'dumped' with 2 years remaining at less than 4 million per that required massive retention or a high end sweetener (top pick/top prospect).

Because my lack of remembering a comparable makes me believe this really doesn't have to be a thing. 🤷🏻‍♂️

are you in HR?
- drexel

IF we are asking random questions - was that meant to be an insult?

They are not the same kind of player.

Engvall is much better suited for a bottom 6 role than Robertson at this point of their careers. I'd dare say the giraffe helps the Leafs more in that situation than a learning Robertson who needs to be put in an offensive role to thrive.

Did I succeed?
- Scabeh

No, but I appreciate the attempt. Engvall is better suited, however he disappeared the second it mattered and was an overall net negative. Robertson as a rookie sure may do the same, but at least consistent 3rd line minutes gives him an opportunity to grow his game and move the needle development wise. 🤷🏻‍♂️

are you in HR?
- drexel

Yes he is..
Hockey Relations.

There's also nothing wrong with dominating the AHL before making the jump.

I remember when Pacioretty said he'd rather play top line minutes in the AHL than play 10 min a night on the Habs fourth line.

He dominated the AHL, got called up and was a top line forward afterward.
- Scabeh

Robertson had an injury shortened season, but was also PPG in the AHL.

IF we are asking random questions - was that meant to be an insult?
- Cush29

In the event you are in HR, I have a job opportunity for you. Our HR is dogpoop. 🤮

There's also nothing wrong with dominating the AHL before making the jump.

I remember when Pacioretty said he'd rather play top line minutes in the AHL than play 10 min a night on the Habs fourth line.

He dominated the AHL, got called up and was a top line forward afterward.
- Scabeh

But what happens when Knies finishes his NCAA season?They wanted him to play last year, they most certainly will next year as well. I think Pontus Holmberg is better than Robertson right now and will play ahead of him.

He’s in that stage of his career where as a shiny prospect his value for potential is high and id welcome using him in a trade if it brings back a good player.

I think it would be better for Robertson career and I like the guy.

Engvall should be traded for a roll of stick tape and replaced with Robertson. Change my mind. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

Trade them both they are way to small, Robertson cause he is, Engvall cause he plays that way.

Yes he is..
Hockey Relations.
- bobbyisno1

Human Remains

Trade them both they are way to small, Robertson cause he is, Engvall cause he plays that way.
- bobbyisno1

The difference between the two is Robertson plays bigger than he is. I don't hate the size argument but you can't have a team full of cavemen as it dramatically removes the speed element from the entire group. Robertson is a happy medium for me in that regard, he can play as though he has size but is fast.

The difference between the two is Robertson plays bigger than he is. I don't hate the size argument but you can't have a team full of cavemen as it dramatically removes the speed element from the entire group. Robertson is a happy medium for me in that regard, he can play as though he has size but is fast.
- joel878

Well bunting played like he had size, all fizzled away in the playoffs. Move Bunting down to the 3rd line if Mathews and Marner are going to be the mainstay. There's no way Mathews can be the only guy on the top line with man strength.

But what happens when Knies finishes his NCAA season?They wanted him to play last year, they most certainly will next year as well. I think Pontus Holmberg is better than Robertson right now and will play ahead of him.

He’s in that stage of his career where as a shiny prospect his value for potential is high and id welcome using him in a trade if it brings back a good player.

I think it would be better for Robertson career and I like the guy.
- Santo_44

He's still young and a talented prospect but I feel like the injuries and dimmed his star a little.

I'm sure there would be teams interested though, no idea how much he would actually bring back.

Well bunting played like he had size, all fizzled away in the playoffs. Move Bunting down to the 3rd line if Mathews and Marner are going to be the mainstay. There's no way Mathews can be the only guy on the top line with man strength.
- bobbyisno1

He also had an injured leg that initially Keefe said he was going to miss quite some time.

He was likely playing hurt.

Hyman played hurt last playoffs as well and didnt look good. Have to give some players a break sometimes, can't predict injuries.

Tell me how you are going to improve this team without trading a big piece? There isn't cap space. To top it off it looks like Campbell is gone. They are going to shuffle bottom six players. Same old same old.
- bobbyisno1

First of all they significantly improved the team this year without trading a big piece.

They need to move bodies for $. Possibilities

Kerfoot - is owed $750K after July 1. Good return should be available. Has 10 team NTC

Holl - anybody have questions?

Mrazek - buyout saves $2.8M this year and $3M next year but leaves $1.4 (when the big boys need to be re-signed. Retain $1M and trade should be possible

Muzzin maybe - owed $2M this year and $4M next year. Also has NTC - 10 teams I think.

Some guys like Mik are probably gone anyway with small savings

Go shopping. Top priorities are top 6 forward or two and a goalie. Build a third line around Kampf. I’m ok if Engvall is on it. Scouts have been good finding undervalued 3rd and 4th line types.

Goalie is biggest worry

He also had an injured leg that initially Keefe said he was going to miss quite some time.

He was likely playing hurt.

Hyman played hurt last playoffs as well and didnt look good. Have to give some players a break sometimes, can't predict injuries.
- Santo_44

Well then, and you don't have an issue with Keefe putting an injured player on the first line? Would any decent coach do that?

He also had an injured leg that initially Keefe said he was going to miss quite some time.

He was likely playing hurt.

Hyman played hurt last playoffs as well and didnt look good. Have to give some players a break sometimes, can't predict injuries.
- Santo_44

He looked better than Bunting this year if you ask me.

The thing with Robertson is if they get that LW we expect them to get and they re sign Engvall…it’s just another season where he plays 4th line mins.

He could use a team that he can play in the top 9 and have some rope.
- Santo_44

With his injuries and his age, I'm fine with letting him play a ton of minutes for the Marlies if he can't crack our top 6. It's a bit of a longshot, but he did surprise out of camp and was rewarded that 10-game stint in his first year if I recall correctly.

Anderson's ready for a long look though, and he has some size and jam to his game that would fit nicely on the 4th line to start.

Curtis Douglas has me drooling. For some reason I had him pegged as a Gauthier clone, but after watching him just pound a guy into the ground like a tent peg...

He's still young and a talented prospect but I feel like the injuries and dimmed his star a little.

I'm sure there would be teams interested though, no idea how much he would actually bring back.
- Scabeh

I am not saying he is Suzuki here because Suzuki was obviously better and had a higher ceiling, but also Kerfoot is not Tatar. Kerfoot is a much more valuable player than Tatar at the time.

Patches cost Suzuki, Tatar and a 2nd

I think Kerfoot, Robertson and a 2nd(make it a 1st if that makes you happy) brings back a similar player.

Well bunting played like he had size, all fizzled away in the playoffs. Move Bunting down to the 3rd line if Mathews and Marner are going to be the mainstay. There's no way Mathews can be the only guy on the top line with man strength.
- bobbyisno1

Fair. I also think Bunting was clearly playing injured and that's definitely going to impact a guys physical game, but the point is still valid.

He also had an injured leg that initially Keefe said he was going to miss quite some time.

He was likely playing hurt.

Hyman played hurt last playoffs as well and didnt look good. Have to give some players a break sometimes, can't predict injuries.
- Santo_44

I’m ok with Bunting on the third if they find what they were hoping to get from Ritchie. Bunting is good at not (frank)ing up opportunities that come his way but he doesn’t create a lot. Yeas, he has jam, etc but a real power forward would be sweet.

Well then, and you don't have an issue with Keefe putting an injured player on the first line? Would any decent coach do that?
- bobbyisno1

what if Matthews was banged up?

He looked better than Bunting this year if you ask me.
- Scabeh

Completely different players though and obviously Hyman's not a rookie. Kind of apples to orangutans, Lord Scabeth.

No, but I appreciate the attempt. Engvall is better suited, however he disappeared the second it mattered and was an overall net negative. Robertson as a rookie sure may do the same, but at least consistent 3rd line minutes gives him an opportunity to grow his game and move the needle development wise. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

From my POV, I dont think I've seen enough of Robertson yet, to move on from Engvall.
He did disappear, agreed, but overall I think he may some big steps this year.
Now, that of course is all dependent on how much salary he wants.