I can't agree with you there. It was a collapse. Someone in here during game 7 described it aptly as a slow motion collapse. We froze up, again, in game 7 after giving away game 6.
- fifty__missions

The shots were like 28-9 at one point; in no way was that a collapse. I don't think you could find a single person that agrees with you either.

I'm talking about Brendan Shanahan. He's too invested in his decisions at this point to see alternatives.
- fifty__missions

You said fans as well. Secondly, I don’t believe at all that Shannahan or Dubas are more invested in previous decisions than in future success. Obviously, they still believe in the vision they set out but they’re not going to knowingly hold onto bad decisions to not look bad. I think if someone came to them with a trade proposal for anyone that made the team better, they’d explore it.

You gotta have a pretty thin skin to take offense to that post, Cush. I get a new bumhole ripped daily for my opinions. Just sayin.
- fifty__missions

Defending your actions because you feel your opinions are questioned daily is rich, I've not seen anyone be snarky or insulting towards you but feel free to PM me if/when that happens as my goal here is to treat everyone equally.

That being said, insult me or anyone else once more and I will follow through on my promise to ban you - it's unnecessary and won't be tolerated.

Yes calling me thin skinned after being snarky is insulting in case you were not sure.

He has a plan and has been given a window to execute by the board (his contract is up 2024-25).

If they fail to achieve their goals, he's gone, along with everyone else top down.

I'm fine with that. I actually prefer this to knee-jerk reactionary moves.
- gravyface

Like the Nazem Kadri deal??

Tell you what - you don't like my analysis, go do your own. There were no significant outliers that would cause a skew like you stated that wasn't somewhat shared between both goaltenders situationally - a massive blowout that would cause the data to be skewed. You don't believe me? There's nothing I can do about that.

Grubauer, for the first time in his career, isn't playing on a good team. His stats reflect that. I'd also say that I never thought that Grubauer was anywhere near as good as Francis clearly did. A number of analysts felt that he was a reason Colorado wasn't taking the next step.

As for Gibson, all I can say is that he had 3 really good years and if you look at his partner over those 3 really good years, his goaltending tandem partner was also good - a reflection of the team. The past few years, the gap between Gibson and his tandem partner has been more distinct and stark - an indicator that the goalie isn't performing as well under the same constraints. And Gibson has been on the wrong side of that comparison.
- Monkeypunk

Gibson played at a level for 3-4 years that not many goalies at all have achieved. He was truly a top 3 goalie in the game. That for me shows what he is capable of. He has not had injury troubles and he is 28 (frank)ing years old. There is zero reason to believe he is experiencing age related decline or a decline from injuries.

Price went through a 4 year stretch where he was a .900 goalie for 3 of them. Goalies can have their stats skewed for many reasons beyond their own skill.

What was wrong with Freddy the last few years? me, the fans, everyone called him not good enough and look what he did after leaving his situation.

Good goalies are good goalies. Rough seasons happen for many factors but I am all about putting the goalie who can give you the best chance at elite results. And a few seasons of .900 level goaltending playing on a poop young team isnt going to change my mind about an elite goalie.

I was burned about thinking that way about Price and now Freddy. It is a poor argument and its one I am leaving in the past and changing my perspective on.

Hayley Wickenheiser has won a few times
- Canada Cup

Was she a part of those Penguins teams?

Assistant to the Manager of winning
- senstroll

I figured it would be an 80's guy so they would have some coke to give them.

The shots were like 28-9 at one point; in no way was that a collapse. I don't think you could find a single person that agrees with you either.
- gravyface

Talking to non-Leaf fans once in a while about this team can help. Especially ones beyond this corner of this website. You might get a different take on the Leafs.

Sure he was better but let’s not find an easy way out to explain away how the Leafs vastly outperformed the Panthers in a playoff series. Both teams lost but the two series were completely different - 23 goals vs 3 goals for in a nail biter of a series vs a sweep. Leafs need to and presumably will make improvements in the off-season but it’s too easy to lump this in as just another first round loss.

I was embarrassed last year. This year’s team performed well but fell short.
- Canada Cup

I believe most would agree with that for sure.
The team did seem to turn over a new leaf for few games, fought back, show some character. But not in enough games.
So another first round lost.
Onto the off season

Like the Nazem Kadri deal??
- fifty__missions

I sure do miss that 2018 roster

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/roster/2018

Yep. Changes during the off-season are inevitable as they are every year, but going back into next season with the core of this team is obvious. I'm looking forward to it.
- Zezel

Add in Gio for the full season as well.

I sure do miss that 2018 roster

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/roster/2018
- Canada Cup

I absolutely do miss Nazem Kadri on the team. Brutal kneejerk reaction move. And you're deflecting by talking about the rest of the roster.

I absolutely do miss Nazem Kadri on the roster. You're deflecting by talking about the rest of the roster.
- fifty__missions

No, I’m making a broader point that even with trading away Kadri, Dubas has managed to significantly improve this team since he got here. He improved it this year and I expect him to improve it next year. I miss Kadri too and have an unrealistic hope that he’s back as 2C next year with JT as his winger.

I absolutely do miss Nazem Kadri on the roster. You're deflecting by talking about the rest of the roster.
- fifty__missions

You're a funny guy. You reminisce about the positive and forget about the negative, and your recency biases are all about the negative and you forget about the positive. I'm guessing it's how you achieve some balance!

Naz was great when he was great and just awful when he was bad. He fell down too much, took too many poor penalties and of course got himself suspended twice when we really needed him.

He was a solid checker, a passionate player, a good passer and had a good shot.

There was lots to love, but there was a legitimate reason he was traded.

Assistant to the Manager of winning
- senstroll

Outstanding achievement in the field of excellence

I think if the NHL didnt have a salary cap, the Leafs would also outspend the rest of the teams by 100million and win a lot also.

but the never accept losing yankees haven't won in 12 seasons
- senstroll

No guarantees they would win....its still the leafs.

I absolutely do miss Nazem Kadri on the team. Brutal kneejerk reaction move. And you're deflecting by talking about the rest of the roster.
- fifty__missions

I agree knee jerk reactions by trading good players would be bad

I agree knee jerk reactions by trading good players would be bad
- senstroll

👍 I'm not advocating that.

You're a funny guy. You reminisce about the positive and forget about the negative, and your recency biases are all about the negative and you forget about the positive. I'm guessing it's how you achieve some balance!

Naz was great when he was great and just awful when he was bad. He fell down too much, took too many poor penalties and of course got himself suspended twice when we really needed him.

He was a solid checker, a passionate player, a good passer and had a good shot.

There was lots to love, but there was a legitimate reason he was traded.
- Monkeypunk

I like Kadri but his trade wasn't a kneejerk reaction move by the Leafs management.

I believe most would agree with that for sure.
The team did seem to turn over a new leaf for few games, fought back, show some character. But not in enough games.
So another first round lost.
Onto the off season
- Fakepartofme

Win 3, lost 4. I remember. The round is of secondary importance to me than how the team played. Beating Pittsburgh and their AHL goalie would have felt great but might not have been as much of a test as this round. All hypothetical.

Like the Nazem Kadri deal??
- fifty__missions

I'll still defend that trade.
The leafs needed a top 4 dman and had a tight cap.
Kadri cost them too much in the post season too often.
They traded Kadri (a 3rd line center on the leafs) for a 3rd line center and a top 4 Dman who recently had a 59pt season...while getting the avs to keep 2.5m in salary (or something close to that).
When the trade occurred, many on here thought Tyson was gonna score 70pts.
Now it didnt work out that way....maybe it was babs system. Had Keefe been the coach all year would Barrie have scored more points? I believe so.
It didnt work out as planned....but I thought it was a good trade at the time.

Talking to non-Leaf fans once in a while about this team can help. Especially ones beyond this corner of this website. You might get a different take on the Leafs.
- fifty__missions

Most of the Non-Leaf fans I know and most of the media coverage or insight from markets other than Toronto seems to be saying the same thing - don't blow it up, tweak it if needed due to cap considerations, minor adjustments but that they are really really close and patience is what is needed.

Even the friends I have who passionately hate the Leafs have said the same.

Win 3, lost 4. I remember. The round is of secondary importance to me than how the team played. Beating Pittsburgh and their AHL goalie would have felt great but might not have been as much of a test as this round. All hypothetical.
- Canada Cup

Whos to say pitts wouldnt have taking the leafs to 7?
That could have easily occurred.
Anywho, another first round loss and I have my nights free again. I appreciate that about the leafs.

You're a funny guy. You reminisce about the positive and forget about the negative, and your recency biases are all about the negative and you forget about the positive. I'm guessing it's how you achieve some balance!

Naz was great when he was great and just awful when he was bad. He fell down too much, took too many poor penalties and of course got himself suspended twice when we really needed him.

He was a solid checker, a passionate player, a good passer and had a good shot.

There was lots to love, but there was a legitimate reason he was traded.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think Kadri would have matured to what he was last night if he had stayed in Toronto, at least not this quickly. The fact he had to do a full reset when he was traded helped him to mature (in my opinion), and even at that he was still the Kadri who overreacted in the playoffs and got himself suspended before he had this amazing season he has had.

I loved Kadri as a Leaf and think he's a great player but I hated the position he put the Leafs in by being suspended 2 playoffs in a row and was in agreement that he had to be moved.

I'd take him back now that he appears to have learned how to not do the dumb thing at the dumb time but no shot the Leafs can afford him and he will (rightfully so) want to cash in on his big season. I kinda' dislike the Av's but I would like to see him and McKinnon win a cup.

Most of the Non-Leaf fans I know and most of the media coverage or insight from markets other than Toronto seems to be saying the same thing - don't blow it up, tweak it if needed due to cap considerations, minor adjustments but that they are really really close and patience is what is needed.

Even the friends I have who passionately hate the Leafs have said the same.
- Cush29

I havent heard anyone (outside of on here) say it needs to be blown up.
But I have heard most say, a shake up is needed (something along the lines of a new coach a willie trade or a big move for a star goaile...something more significant that changes with the supporting cast).
But they arent blowing it up.
Specially after Gio signed...that move helps them out so much