While I have more interest in the Eastern Conference playoffs(let's go Canes) I have to admit that the Western Conference games have been much more exciting! That game last night was riveting! McDavid and Mackinnon going head to head in the WCF would be must see TV. The East has been kind of a snorefest comparatively speaking. That being said, Let's go Canes!!

Tarasenko also was available
- hello it's me 2050

Yep, I mentioned him in my original comment. He would've been a risky addition but I guarantee the Blues would've taken some combination of the assets given up this past summer for him.

What the hell does Patrick have to so with Schenn? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The Flyers invested in Farabee and Frost when they traded away Schenn. You really do have some strange takes on here.
- Phillywhiteout

You have got to be the biggest moron on this page. First of all read back because the entire conversation went completely over your head. On top of this, Schenn was made expectable because of the drafting of Patrick, so you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Yep, I mentioned him in my original comment. He would've been a risky addition but I guarantee the Blues would've taken some combination of the assets given up this past summer for him.
- TobyFlenderson

Must have missed it. Just amazes me some still defend this organization and the GM.

You have got to be the biggest moron on this page. First of all read back because the entire conversation went completely over your head. On top of this, Schenn was made expectable because of the drafting of Patrick, so you don’t know what you’re talking about.
- SuperSchennBros

As long as you are on this page I have no worries whatsoever cause some of your takes are so misguided I think they are musings from a 5 year old that's never seen or played a hockey game in his life.


I just have to ask a serious question. Wasn't Schenn traded well before the drafting of Patrick? Therefore, I don't understand your take at all. Perhaps my time machine is jammed, but this is why I don't understand your take whatsoever.

Sanheim put together some good stretches of hockey but he also had his share of struggles last season. Every player is different. Sanheim has not had the overall responsibility and weight on him that Provorov has had over the last seasons. To not factor that in would be negligent. Instead of looking down on Provorov, adjust expectations. He is not a defenseman that can in a #1 role rise above all of the Flyers issues and carry the team. Not many defenseman could. Instead view him as a top pair defenseman that if playing with another legit top pair partner in a structured team setting can be a pretty good player. What's wrong with that? Beware of moving on.
- MJL

In isolation, there's nothing wrong with that kind of player. You can definitely play a Provy or Phaneuf type as your "#1" and get away with it if the rest of your team is bangin'.

But in practice, it creates problems....

Like you have to invest heavily in their partner (see: Ryan Ellis trade and contract). And that takes resources/cap space away from other needs.

It also affects ice time and opportunity distribution... Provy is clearly not a PP QB, but they'll keep using him there because of status and sunk cost fallacy. They'll keep putting him on the ice in shut down situations when the results just haven't been good. There are other players who might do better in those spots, but we'll never know, because the team will hand those duties to Provy by default.

You also have to think that a false notion of having their "#1 dman" checked off the list has had some impact on their draft strategy. Like how it could tip the balance in Patrick vs Heiskanen. JOB vs K'Andre Miller. Like how it could skew their idea of BAP. That sort of thing.

You really do have some strange takes on here.
- Phillywhiteout

Seriously?

In isolation, there's nothing wrong with that kind of player. You can definitely play a Provy or Phaneuf type as your "#1" and get away with it if the rest of your team is bangin'.

But in practice, it creates problems....

Like you have to invest heavily in their partner (see: Ryan Ellis trade and contract). And that takes resources/cap space away from other needs.

It also affects ice time and opportunity distribution... Provy is clearly not a PP QB, but they'll keep using him there because of status and sunk cost fallacy. They'll keep putting him on the ice in shut down situations when the results just haven't been good. There are other players who might do better in those spots, but we'll never know, because the team will hand those duties to Provy by default.

You also have to think that a false notion of having their "#1 dman" checked off the list has had some impact on their draft strategy. Like how it could tip the balance in Patrick vs Heiskanen. JOB vs K'Andre Miller. Like how it could skew their idea of BAP. That sort of thing.
- Tomahawk

This one is easy. The Saint is/was the smartest man in the room. So he thought anyway.

The crazy/scary thing is the pp usage. It is so clear he is not a PP dman. Yet they wont do anything about it or they don't see it.

In isolation, there's nothing wrong with that kind of player. You can definitely play a Provy or Phaneuf type as your "#1" and get away with it if the rest of your team is bangin'.

But in practice, it creates problems....

Like you have to invest heavily in their partner (see: Ryan Ellis trade and contract). And that takes resources/cap space away from other needs.


- Tomahawk

It's not looking at Provorov as the #1. It's looking at him as a defenseman playing on the top pairing with a similar player at that level. The problems were created by the Flyers lack of judgement and failure over the years to draft and develop enough defenseman.

It also affects ice time and opportunity distribution... Provy is clearly not a PP QB, but they'll keep using him there because of status and sunk cost fallacy. They'll keep putting him on the ice in shut down situations when the results just haven't been good. There are other players who might do better in those spots, but we'll never know, because the team will hand those duties to Provy by default.


- Tomahawk

Again, that's bad coaching and decision making by the Flyers. Not on Provorov as a player. Of course the results haven't been good. On his own in isolation he is not a true shut down defenseman. Combine it with the team's inability as a whole to possess the puck and attack more. Along with awful team defense and what do you get? Don't downgrade Provorov as a player because of bad team planning, coaching. etc.

You also have to think that a false notion of having their "#1 dman" checked off the list has had some impact on their draft strategy. Like how it could tip the balance in Patrick vs Heiskanen. JOB vs K'Andre Miller. Like how it could skew their idea of BAP. That sort of thing.
- Tomahawk

Again, that would be on team management and not Provorov. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

It's not looking at Provorov as the #1. It's looking at him as a defenseman playing on the top pairing with a similar player at that level. The problems were created by the Flyers lack of judgement and failure over the years to draft and develop enough defenseman.


- MJL

That is funny as hell coming from you. Where does the blame lie for that? The prior GM drafted 10 dman in his 5 drafts. So are you saying he didn't do a good enough job drafting? Or he didn't do a good enough job developing at the Pro and AHL level. Did he not prioritize Dman?

It's not looking at Provorov as the #1. It's looking at him as a defenseman playing on the top pairing with a similar player at that level. The problems were created by the Flyers lack of judgement and failure over the years to draft and develop enough defenseman.



Again, that's bad coaching and decision making by the Flyers. Not on Provorov as a player. Of course the results haven't been good. On his own in isolation he is not a true shut down defenseman. Combine it with the team's inability as a whole to possess the puck and attack more. Along with awful team defense and what do you get? Don't downgrade Provorov as a player because of bad team planning, coaching. etc.



Again, that would be on team management and not Provorov. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
- MJL

Do you ever hold ivan accountable in any way? Nothing is his fault.

Do you ever hold ivan accountable in any way? Nothing is his fault.
- hello it's me 2050

It's probably Ristolainen's fault.

It's probably Ristolainen's fault.
- J35Bacher

He will rip RR to shreds which is fine and deserving. Yet not one bad word about Ivan.

Seems like the Flyers have coddled him and he can do no wrong. It has got to the point where Ivan may also believe he can do no wrong. No problem moving on from him except I have zero faith in Chuck making a good or even solid deal.

Yesterday you were all for Trotz.

Chuck is a clown. No faith in him at all. Cant wait to see his first nhl move this off season.
- hello it's me 2050

You already did. It was a doozy.

Provorov plays the left side and Ellis plays the right side.
- MJL

Yes, but beyond this fact, its clear the Provorov is not a true #1 and needs a specific type of defensive partner in order to play well. That was the point of this comment.

You already did. It was a doozy.
- mickel25

What was a doozy?

What was a doozy?
- hello it's me 2050

CF's first move of the offseason.

Did the Flyers have any control or way to effect what the Islanders did there by firing Trotz and hiring Lane Lambert, who was under contract and control by the Islanders? Did the NHL. So how was he one step ahead of anyone? LOL

Lane Lambert is not exactly young. He's 57. The Flyers are in a tough spot here. They are one of the worst coached and worst run organizations in hockey. They can't afford to take on a coach to learn on the job. On the other hand, a guy like Tortorell likely won't be a long term solution. They need to get this decision correct and they really need an experienced coach.
- MJL

The Flyers are in a tough spot and they do need to get this right. I agree that Fletcher cannot afford to hire an inexperienced coach because whether he states it or not, its clear Fletcher's job is on the line. However as I stated I don't believe it makes sense to hire a coach like Torts who has demonstrated he is not patient and at this stage in his life is not a coach that grow with the young group of players. Torts would be better suited for a veteran team that is looking to get over the hump, maybe a team like Toronto for example. What this means is there is a very specific subset of coaches that are potential coaches for the Flyers, experienced but patient and can grow with the team. This will make it harder for Fletcher IMO.

CF's first move of the offseason.
- mickel25

must have missed it. Dont see any doozy moves as of yet.

Yes, but beyond this fact, its clear the Provorov is not a true #1 and needs a specific type of defensive partner in order to play well. That was the point on of this comment.
- jd250

The reason why Fletcher took a chance on Ellis was not because Provorov is not a #1. It is mostly because Fletcher was desperate and the Flyers needed a top pairing RH defenseman. This would've been the case even if Provorov was playing at a #1 level.

The Flyers are in a tough spot and they do need to get this right. I agree that Fletcher cannot afford to hire an inexperienced coach because whether he states it or not, its clear Fletcher's job is on the line. However as I stated I don't believe it makes sense to hire a coach like Torts who has demonstrated he is not patient and at this stage in his life is not a coach that grow with the young group of players. Torts would be better suited for a veteran team that is looking to get over the hump, maybe a team like Toronto for example. What this means is there is a very specific subset of coaches that are potential coaches for the Flyers, experienced but patient and can grow with the team. This will make it harder for Fletcher IMO.
- jd250

Chuck has made it hard on himself.

Remember when you said he shouldn't let Trotz leave the building? He is the perfect fit for this team? What has changed in 24 hours?

Holy poop

the other day you just cried about trotz being your first choice and Torts your second


- THE BLACK HAND

What does Torts have to do with Trotz? I love Trotz and I do believe he is a good choice for the Flyers, because unlike Torts, Trotz has proven he can stick with a team and grow with a young core of players. He has done it in the past. Torts has demonstrated the opposite IMO.

So I know you continually try to be a forum clown and try to throw words against me and others, and its sad because you seem like a smart guy. I wish you would spend your energy contributing to the discussion instead of just trying to zing people all the time.

Sanheim put together some good stretches of hockey but he also had his share of struggles last season. Every player is different. Sanheim has not had the overall responsibility and weight on him that Provorov has had over the last seasons. To not factor that in would be negligent. Instead of looking down on Provorov, adjust expectations. He is not a defenseman that can in a #1 role rise above all of the Flyers issues and carry the team. Not many defenseman could. Instead view him as a top pair defenseman that if playing with another legit top pair partner in a structured team setting can be a pretty good player. What's wrong with that? Beware of moving on.
- MJL

I thought Sanheim and Risto made a good pair, and playing with Risto allowed Sanheim to really come into his own this past season. I think the Flyers should extend Sanheim and leave this 2nd pairing alone, its the least of their problems right now.

How about Buchnevich and Tarasenko last year? Or Dumba who's seemingly available every offseason. The Rangers gave up Buchnevich for a 2nd rounder and a bottom 6 forward and he scored 30 goals this season and is a PPG scorer in the playoffs this year. It's possible the Rangers never would've traded him in division but man, I hope Fletcher at least checked. Pains me what was given up for Ristolainen and with Ghost.
- TobyFlenderson

This is really true. The difference is having leverage versus not having leverage. The Flyers were desperate in their own minds to jettison Ghost and obtain Risto and thus overpaid on both deals. The Rangers were desperate to get tougher and thus gave up a very good offensive player for much less. That is why Fletcher needs to turn the tables now and be patient until the point where he has the leverage versus acting in desperation.

I thought Sanheim and Risto made a good pair, and playing with Risto allowed Sanheim to really come into his own this past season. I think the Flyers should extend Sanheim and leave this 2nd pairing alone, its the least of their problems right now.
- jd250

Yet that is sad isn't it?