I know you're a big fan of Gibson whereas I am not. So tell me, your best fan guess at what a trade looks like?
- Aaron_85

I'll preface by saying I don't think it will happen, because Gibson came out and said he doesn't want to be traded... If I had to guess, from Anaheim's perspective, I would ask for;

Mrazek, Sandin, Hirvonen and a 1st rd pick

It was an awful trade and I'm blown away people are still going to this length to put some positive fluff on it.

It doesn't matter that Kadri was playing on our 3rd line, he was a 2C locked in at a premium rate for significant term. A one off RHD that never fit the mold and a slightly above average gadget guy they then had to extend doesn't cut it or anything close to cutting it.

If that's how we manage our assets I suppose everyone is content with trading Nylander for equivalent because some can argue they 'need to' for cap purposes? Don't think so.
- joel878

You feel it was an awful trade, that's cool. I don't all things considered and sure one can argue Kadri was a 2C but he wasn't playing 2C in Toronto and wasn't going to so he was a 3C and paying him 5M / year to be a 3C is an overpayment.

I would go out on a limb and say there were more Leaf fans who felt the Kadri trade was a necessity and although they would have perhaps liked to keep Kadri they understood it was needed and as such were ok with it and the return. Barrie didn't work out - it happens but it doesn't mean you don't try and make a good trade that you hope works out.

Tampa let their whole 3rd line go after winning a cup, 99% due to 'cap purposes' and went on to win - making trades due to cap issues is the new norm and teams that refuse to do so will be unlikely to have success long term in my opinion.

Confirmed, Domino's is the worst pizza I've ever had. It's so bad it's not even good in a bad pizza is still good way. It's not even pizza. It was a struggle to eat the whole thing, but I did anyway.
- Zezel

for me it's Papa John's

I'll preface by saying I don't think it will happen, because Gibson came out and said he doesn't want to be traded... If I had to guess, from Anaheim's perspective, I would ask for;

Mrazek, Sandin, Hirvonen and a 1st rd pick
- PatC80

If I'm giving Sandin then to me it's a lesser pick. THat's a lot for a goalie in general. Even more for a goalie who hasn't performed for 3 years.

I think Anaheim would move him at the deadline

Oh well then if that's what you think then sure. No point in discussing it further. I simply disagree on it.
- Aaron_85

To me it boils down to the idea that they took a premium asset locked in at great value and the most valuable part of the return only had a year, the other part was RFA at the time. They did it on July 1st, there was no reason to rush a deal for an asset which didn't come with some security to manage.

Barrie was a poor fit (like many predicted) and walked (like even more predicted). The end result is Kadri for Kerfoot, Kerfoot signed for literally a million less then Kadri was making. Yes, some people were content with the deal at the time. There's very few who can look at that for what it is and consider it an acceptable return for a premium asset.

Jack (frank)ing Johnson is a stanley cup champ?! Get the (frank) out of here!
- Aaron_85

he can sell his ring to make up for his financial short comings

Let's quit pretending that Kadri is the piece that puts us over the top.
Something like there is no other player in the league of his capability.

Maybe but they do one at a time and Lilligren would be first priority. Leafs were vulnerable from offer sheets if both were unsigned. I’d still be surprised if they moved Sandin. They’ve been patient with both of them. Maybe if there’s a big return.
- Canada Cup

Speaking of offer-sheets, pretty sure some Buffalo fan waltzed in here not long ago and said Buffalo was guaranteed to offer-sheet Liljegren.

To me it boils down to the idea that they took a premium asset locked in at great value and the most valuable part of the return only had a year, the other part was RFA at the time. They did it on July 1st, there was no reason to rush a deal for an asset which didn't come with some security to manage.

Barrie was a poor fit (like many predicted) and walked (like even more predicted). The end result is Kadri for Kerfoot, Kerfoot signed for literally a million less then Kadri was making. Yes, some people were content with the deal at the time. There's very few who can look at that for what it is and consider it an acceptable return for a premium asset.
- joel878

You seem to forget that Barrie was a consistent 50+ point top 4 RHD, which the Leafs needed at that time..

Barrie was not a 'throw in'.

It's not Dubas' fault that Babcock tried to turn Barrie into a defensive d-man with limited PP time

If I'm giving Sandin then to me it's a lesser pick. THat's a lot for a goalie in general. Even more for a goalie who hasn't performed for 3 years.

I think Anaheim would move him at the deadline
- Aaron_85

I would as well, just thinking that the Ducks would aim for at least a 1st rd pick included in a package for Gibson.

As a Leafs fan, I would trade Mrazek and Simmonds for him and tell Anaheim to enjoy them both

You feel it was an awful trade, that's cool. I don't all things considered and sure one can argue Kadri was a 2C but he wasn't playing 2C in Toronto and wasn't going to so he was a 3C and paying him 5M / year to be a 3C is an overpayment.

I would go out on a limb and say there were more Leaf fans who felt the Kadri trade was a necessity and although they would have perhaps liked to keep Kadri they understood it was needed and as such were ok with it and the return. Barrie didn't work out - it happens but it doesn't mean you don't try and make a good trade that you hope works out.

Tampa let their whole 3rd line go after winning a cup, 99% due to 'cap purposes' and went on to win - making trades due to cap issues is the new norm and teams that refuse to do so will be unlikely to have success long term in my opinion.
- Cush29

Kadri was a 2C on probably 95% of the other teams in the NHL. They were trading a 2C.

If we are to label the benefit of that deal as being a 'cap deal', I can't help but feel there were better ways to take a million dollars off the books long term.

I mean come on, even if that was the deal they loved with Barrie basically a slam dunk to walk it should have come with a high pick or real good prospect. At the very least.

This is amplified by the idea there was zero necessity to trade naz on July 1st. You have 3.5 months before you even start playing hockey and teams were only going to become more desperate for a 2C making 4.5 mil as their cap situations tightened over the summer.

Kadri was a 2C on probably 95% of the other teams in the NHL. They were trading a 2C.

If we are to label the benefit of that deal as being a 'cap deal', I can't help but feel there were better ways to take a million dollars off the books long term.

I mean come on, even if that was the deal they loved with Barrie basically a slam dunk to walk it should have come with a high pick or real good prospect. At the very least.

This is amplified by the idea there was zero necessity to trade naz on July 1st. You have 3.5 months before you even start playing hockey and teams were only going to become more desperate for a 2C making 4.5 mil as their cap situations tightened over the summer.
- joel878

hey 'member when Kadri vetoed the trade to Calgary that Dubas had worked out before the deal was made with Colorado?

You seem to forget that Barrie was a consistent 50+ point top 4 RHD, which the Leafs needed at that time..

Barrie was not a 'throw in'.

It's not Dubas' fault that Babcock tried to turn Barrie into a defensive d-man with limited PP time
- PatC80

He was absolutely not what the leafs needed at the time. They already had that an offence first defender who was very suspect defensively in Rielly, they needed a top 4 RHD that could play defence.

Also, they knew that. It's why Brodie was the first target.

See my other post, it was a bad trade the day it was made. Kerfoot has about 25 games as a leaf he was anything above vanilla, 7 of them were during the playoffs but they weren't during these playoffs.
- joel878

it was IMO an ok trade at the time

looking back it now, yeah it doesn't look good for the Leafs.

time to move the frecken on , I don't get why people are crying over spilled milk.

get over it.

Confirmed, Domino's is the worst pizza I've ever had. It's so bad it's not even good in a bad pizza is still good way. It's not even pizza. It was a struggle to eat the whole thing, but I did anyway.
- Zezel

Agreed - the worst.

Of the poopty cheap quick fill pizza's I think a walk-in pep from pizza pizza is the way to go.

hey 'member when Kadri vetoed the trade to Calgary that Dubas had worked out before the deal was made with Colorado?
- PatC80

Oh damn there were only 2 deals available for Naz in the entire NHL over the entire duration of his incredibly tradeable contract and he said no to one of them.

So I guess the argument just became that Dubas had no option but to take a suspect below value deal at a point there was no need to do so because of necessity?

Avs are champs .. but I'm pretty sure they're one and done.

No 1st or 2nd this yr - no 2nd in 23 or 24 and no 3rd in 24 ... Ouch..

UFA's out the wazoo...
Cogs
Burakovsky
Helm
Kads
Nichusken
Sturm...

All big contributors and UFA's ... most all getting substantial raises.. and not in Colorado...

Manson on the backend. Along with Kuemper...

They maybe can keep 3 out of all these guys.. Sakic work is just starting..


Going into next yr with 32 yr old Francouz in net...

Even with the cap going up... they got big issues.
- dozerD10

You do know that by theoretically losing those players they...gain...that cap space and that there is this thing called "free agency" where teams can bid on players to join their team in exchange for monetary contracts?

I only say it because I get "the lecture" fairly regularly around here. People do the same stuff or worse responding to me....crickets.

But yes, more Keefe, more Dubas. It's gonna be different this year....!?
- fifty__missions

I'm trying man ...

I invited a conversation about the team and changes and you reply with the suggestion that b/c Dubas is there nothing else matters.

You do know that by theoretically losing those players they...gain...that cap space and that there is this thing called "free agency" where teams can bid on players to join their team in exchange for monetary contracts?
- AdamFrench

Nichuskin will be an interesting case.

Really had great playoffs but how much do you pay for a useful middle six player who had everyone fooled in his draft year that he was gonna be a star?

Oh damn there were only 2 deals available for Naz in the entire NHL over the entire duration of his incredibly tradeable contract and he said no to one of them.

So I guess the argument just became that Dubas had no option but to take a suspect below value deal at a point there was no need to do so because of necessity?
- joel878

If Babs wasn't a douche and used Barrie properly, we're not having this discussion.. Barrie was needed at the time, he's a PP specialist with a good point shot.

Kerfoot could play C/LW, which is a nice player to have. Now, unfortunately, he's in the same boat as Kadri was at that time.. making too much money for a 3rd line player..

If Kerfoot gets traded and wins the Cup in three years, you gonna be mad then too?

it was IMO an ok trade at the time

looking back it now, yeah it doesn't look good for the Leafs.

time to move the frecken on , I don't get why people are crying over spilled milk.

get over it.
- dmnted

I was responding to a comment that the deal was just fine. I'm pretty sure you can be over it and acknowledge that the deal wasn't fine. It's one of the very few moves I've faulted Dubas on through his tenure.

Also, this was Richardy enough I feel like I could have validated why I just told you to (frank) off. The above seemed a better route but I'd still prefer if you enjoyed the smallest dose of that sentiment. 👍

I think Sandin is an easy contract after the Lil deal. Either the same or a tad less.

For as long as he is not signed I would think he is available for a trade, which makes sense to keep their options open but he is not untouchable in the least.
- Santo_44

I think Sandin is a little more boom/bust so I wonder if they settle on a 1 yr deal smaller than Lilly's. Multiple years might get trickier to agree on with him.

God ...Gio's 800k looks really really good.

Lightning winger Corey Perry became the first player since 1970 to lose in the Stanley Cup Final three years in a row. He’s the first in NHL history to do it with three different teams after losing to Tampa Bay each of the previous two seasons, first with the Dallas Stars and then the Montreal Canadiens.
- Aaron_85

I'd love to lose in the finals next year ...sign Perry!!!

If Babs wasn't a douche and used Barrie properly, we're not having this discussion.. Barrie was needed at the time, he's a PP specialist with a good point shot.

Kerfoot could play C/LW, which is a nice player to have. Now, unfortunately, he's in the same boat as Kadri was at that time.. making too much money for a 3rd line player..

If Kerfoot gets traded and wins the Cup in three years, you gonna be mad then too?
- PatC80

I think you're reading me wrong, I'm not mad.

I could care less what Kerfoot goes on to do, he's not a premium trade asset like Kadri was. If we trade him for a subpar return it's water under the bridge.

If we trade Nylander for a top 4D who doesn't fit the mold with zero term and a 3rd liner who needs extending, yeah I probably won't be doing backflips over that one.

I have said it multiple times now to everyone to stop, you being singled out is perhaps because you do this exact thing, multiple times daily. As long as that continues you can continue to expect to be singled out.
- Cush29

You need to check your records. I'm not here "multiple times" daily. I'm not even here daily.

It might also be because you don't agree with my opinions.