Hextall was given 5 years. Regardless of what people believe about the Patrick drafting (which everyone had Patrick being taken 1 or 2 except our incredible scouts and Bobby Clarke), Hextall in my opinion is the only GM that at least tried to give the franchise a complete overhaul.
- SuperSchennBros

But he didn't. If your overhauling you overhaul. He had a prime Wayne Simmonds on a cushy deal and held onto him instead of moving him at his highest value when they weren't making the playoffs.

You move Schenn but sign JVR.

I think that is my issues. If you want to do it then do it. but it seemed to be a half ass overhaul.

But he didn't. If your overhauling you overhaul. He had a prime Wayne Simmonds on a cushy deal and held onto him instead of moving him at his highest value when they weren't making the playoffs.

You move Schenn but sign JVR.

I think that is my issues. If you want to do it then do it. but it seemed to be a half ass overhaul.
- J35Bacher

The fired Hextall and wouldn't accept the patient approach that he was using. What do you think they would've done if he had completely gutted the team and traded Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek etc?

The fired Hextall and wouldn't accept the patient approach that he was using. What do you think they would've done if he had completely gutted the team and traded Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek etc?
- MJL

Well Giroux had a NMC so he probably would be around. Simmonds was a 30 goal scorer who would have one year left and was only making 4.5mil i believe. That's not maximizing the value if your doing a rebuild.

But you sign a stop gap vet, find a reclamation project on a one year deal and see if it hits. You can fill those roles cheap.

You start to slowly integrate the youth.

They didn't fire him for the approach. i am pretty sure Snider was still alive and knew what was going on. I believe he was fired because they weren't seeing progress.

Well Giroux had a NMC so he probably would be around. Simmonds was a 30 goal scorer who would have one year left and was only making 4.5mil i believe. That's not maximizing the value if your doing a rebuild.

But you sign a stop gap vet, find a reclamation project on a one year deal and see if it hits. You can fill those roles cheap.

You start to slowly integrate the youth.
- J35Bacher

You didn't answer the question. The Flyers organization wouldn't have accepted a complete tear down.

You didn't answer the question. The Flyers organization wouldn't have accepted a complete tear down.
- MJL

Isn't this where you would tell someone "you don't know that".

They hired a college coach and they were rebuilding. But you still need to show progress as in gaining loads of draft capital, players developing, team showing steps that it will eventually get better.

Hockey News article in 2015. I get the sense that if your rebuilding then do it. If your not then you better put a product that can win. To me it seems Hextall tried to have it both ways.

In early October, Philadelphia Flyers owner Ed Snider told THN he was more than happy to allow GM Ron Hextall to build the team slowly and not engage in blockbuster trades, as has been the franchise's custom as often as not under his stewardship.

“Ron Hextall has come in and preached patience,” Snider said at the time. “Ron said, ‘We’re not going to rush guys along. We’re going to develop our kids and really work on that phase of the game.’ That was my philosophy when I started the team.”

That was five months ago. Now, talking to Philly.com, Snider sounds as if he's not quite so certain about the whole patience thing.

"I don't like to give the impression that, 'Hey, we aren't going to win.' " Snider said. "It's Ron's job to analyze why. Why did this same team that made the playoffs (last season) fall?"

Snider's team is already saddled with a number of onerous contracts (including veteran Vincent Lecavalier's $4.5 million cap hit lasting through the next three seasons, and R.J. Umberger's two remaining seasons left at a $4.6 million average annual value) born of what some would say is an overeagerness to succeed sooner than later. And although Snider reiterated his support for Hextall's game plan in his latest interview, the Flyers' relatively close proximity to a playoff spot earlier this season has apparently whetted his appetite to continue pushing for results now.

"You don't say when you've got (star center Claude) Giroux, and you've got (Jake) Voracek, and you've got (Steve) Mason and you've got the kind of pieces like (Wayne) Simmonds that we have, that, 'Hey, you've got to be patient, we might make the playoffs in 2 or 3 years,' " he said. "[Bleep] that...We've got to make sure our message gets through properly. Patience is great with the kids. But patience isn't great with the team we have on the ice."

It just might be another and notable off-season in Philadelphia after all.

Hockey News article in 2015. I get the sense that if your rebuilding then do it. If your not then you better put a product that can win. To me it seems Hextall tried to have it both ways.

In early October, Philadelphia Flyers owner Ed Snider told THN he was more than happy to allow GM Ron Hextall to build the team slowly and not engage in blockbuster trades, as has been the franchise's custom as often as not under his stewardship.

“Ron Hextall has come in and preached patience,” Snider said at the time. “Ron said, ‘We’re not going to rush guys along. We’re going to develop our kids and really work on that phase of the game.’ That was my philosophy when I started the team.”

That was five months ago. Now, talking to Philly.com, Snider sounds as if he's not quite so certain about the whole patience thing.

"I don't like to give the impression that, 'Hey, we aren't going to win.' " Snider said. "It's Ron's job to analyze why. Why did this same team that made the playoffs (last season) fall?"

Snider's team is already saddled with a number of onerous contracts (including veteran Vincent Lecavalier's $4.5 million cap hit lasting through the next three seasons, and R.J. Umberger's two remaining seasons left at a $4.6 million average annual value) born of what some would say is an overeagerness to succeed sooner than later. And although Snider reiterated his support for Hextall's game plan in his latest interview, the Flyers' relatively close proximity to a playoff spot earlier this season has apparently whetted his appetite to continue pushing for results now.

"You don't say when you've got (star center Claude) Giroux, and you've got (Jake) Voracek, and you've got (Steve) Mason and you've got the kind of pieces like (Wayne) Simmonds that we have, that, 'Hey, you've got to be patient, we might make the playoffs in 2 or 3 years,' " he said. "
- J35Bacher[Bleep] that...We've got to make sure our message gets through properly. Patience is great with the kids. But patience isn't great with the team we have on the ice."

It just might be another and notable off-season in Philadelphia after all.

And that right there seems to indicate that "The Flyers organization would not accept a complete tear down"

The fired Hextall and wouldn't accept the patient approach that he was using. What do you think they would've done if he had completely gutted the team and traded Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek etc?
- MJL

He was 100% in charge. He failed. Accept it Cliff.

Then why not build around those players if he was under such pressure to win? He had no idea how to build a team or how to rebuild.

Isn't this where you would tell someone "you don't know that".

They hired a college coach and they were rebuilding. But you still need to show progress as in gaining loads of draft capital, players developing, team showing steps that it will eventually get better.
- J35Bacher

Ha!!!!

And that right there seems to indicate that "The Flyers organization would not accept a complete tear down"
- MBFlyerfan

Disagree. He said:
"Patience is great with the kids. But patience isn't great with the team we have on the ice."

Well if you tear down the team on the ice he will have patience. That is my opinion. You either build around those guys or move them. Ronald wanted the best of both worlds

And that right there seems to indicate that "The Flyers organization would not accept a complete tear down"
- MBFlyerfan

See and I read it the other way.

If your going to rebuild then do it. Rip the band aid off and do it. but if your keeping some of these guys then you need to figure out how to win with them.

Hextall went on to move Lecavallier then. That was a good move. Also Schenn was moved too. Mason became a UFA after the 2016-17 season. Brayden Schenn was traded.

People who repeatedly claim that Hextall was given 5 years still to this day can't grasp that it took 3 plus years just to clear up the cap situation and rebuild the prospect system. He had to clean up the mess before he could truly start trying to build the team up.
- MJL

You misunderstood. I pointed out he was given 5 years in comparison to Sakic was given 10 years as the Aves stayed the course of their direction.

Disagree. He said:
"Patience is great with the kids. But patience isn't great with the team we have on the ice."

Well if you tear down the team on the ice he will have patience. That is my opinion. You either build around those guys or move them. Ronald wanted the best of both worlds
- hello it's me 2050

And that is how I read it.

But he didn't. If your overhauling you overhaul. He had a prime Wayne Simmonds on a cushy deal and held onto him instead of moving him at his highest value when they weren't making the playoffs.

You move Schenn but sign JVR.

I think that is my issues. If you want to do it then do it. but it seemed to be a half ass overhaul.
- J35Bacher

I agree that Hextall took too long in improving the on ice product. It wasn’t as if he had nothing on the ice he was gifted Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier.

I never liked the Schenn deal it was announced. Schenn was traded an hour after we drafted Patrick. Patrick hadn’t even breath NHL air yet but Hextall felt like Schenn was expendable. I didn’t have an issue with the JvR signing and still don’t. We were weak on the left side at the time and JvR had earned his money at this point by coming off a 36 goal season having two 60 plus seasons under his belt. My issue comes from Schenn being traded and signing with St Louis at 6.5 million but we felt like we needed to bring Hayes at 7.14 million. I get that Hayes isn’t a Hextall signing but it does show just how much of a mistake trading Schenn really was.

I agree that Hextall took too long in improving the on ice product. It wasn’t as if he had nothing on the ice he was gifted Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn and Couturier.

I never liked the Schenn deal it was announced. Schenn was traded an hour after we drafted Patrick. Patrick hadn’t even breath NHL air yet but Hextall felt like Schenn was expendable. I didn’t have an issue with the JvR signing and still don’t. We were weak on the left side at the time and JvR had earned his money at this point by coming off a 36 goal season having two 60 plus seasons under his belt. My issue comes from Schenn being traded and signing with St Louis at 6.5 million but we felt like we needed to bring Hayes at 7.14 million. I get that Hayes isn’t a Hextall signing but it does show just how much of a mistake trading Schenn really was.
- SuperSchennBros

Hayes was only signed because Patrick wasn't showing he could handle those 2nd line duties and also I had a feeling they new Patrick would be missing time.

My thing is if your rebuilding then you don't spend 7 million on JVR. Weak or not. You find a one year rental then to fill that and save the money to maybe make deals that help your team in the future.

I was fine with them moving Schenn.

But they held onto Simmonds too long if your plan was to rebuild. They lost all value they had and probably would have got a 1st rounder for him and a prospect. H had back to back 30 goal seasons.

Also if your rebuilding do you sign a 27 year old Voracek to over 8 million a year or do you let that go since you know it will take time for your youth to get there.

It's true. Hextall's cardinal sin was not tearing the whole thing down to begin with. I've said that since the beginning.

But even so, Hextall had the correct approach/vision on how to build a contender. He was prepared to be patient and finally set the franchise on the right course after being held hostage by the country club's mentality of going all in every year with King / Ten off suit.

We know what happened. Feckless management lacked the testicular fortitude. Dave Scott put his tail between his legs and ran away home to his mama the second it got a little tough. It really makes me question how he managed to rise so high in business. I'm sure there is an element of nepotism there as well.

It's true. Hextall's cardinal sin was not tearing the whole thing down to begin with. I've said that since the beginning.

But even so, Hextall had the correct approach/vision on how to build a contender. He was prepared to be patient and finally set the franchise on the right course after being held hostage by the country club's mentality of going all in every year with King / Ten off suit.

We know what happened. Feckless management lacked the testicular fortitude. Dave Scott put his tail between his legs and ran away home to his mama.
- StepfordSam

The same vision pretty much every NHL GM has, he wasn't some genius with a new idea/approach.

Ronald was in complete charge just like Chuck is today. Just 2 not good GM's at all.

King / Ten off suit
- StepfordSam

What hand are they holding now?

And that right there seems to indicate that "The Flyers organization would not accept a complete tear down"
- MBFlyerfan

Lol, just the Flyers being the Flyers.

It's true. Hextall's cardinal sin was not tearing the whole thing down to begin with. I've said that since the beginning.

But even so, Hextall had the correct approach/vision on how to build a contender. He was prepared to be patient and finally set the franchise on the right course after being held hostage by the country club's mentality of going all in every year with King / Ten off suit.

We know what happened. Feckless management lacked the testicular fortitude. Dave Scott put his tail between his legs and ran away home to his mama the second it got a little tough. It really makes me question how he managed to rise so high in business. I'm sure there is an element of nepotism there as well.
- StepfordSam

Don't these statements contradict each other? So he had the right approach but started it as a cardinal sin?

The same vision pretty much every NHL GM has, he wasn't some genius with a new idea/approach.

Ronald was in complete charge just like Chuck is today. Just 2 not good GM's at all.
- hello it's me 2050

You say this all of the time. Chuck is absolutely not taking the draft and develop approach. He traded away three draft (1st, two 2nd) picks last offseason alone. He has made moves every year since getting the job and the team has gotten worse every year.

So this baseline philosophy that pretty much every GM has is lost on Fletcher. I would 100% take Hextall and his approach over Chuck Fletcher.

You say this all of the time. Chuck is absolutely not taking the draft and develop approach. He traded away three draft (1st, two 2nd) picks last offseason alone. He has made moves every year since getting the job and the team has gotten worse every year.

So this baseline philosophy that pretty much every GM has is lost on Fletcher. I would 100% take Hextall and his approach over Chuck Fletcher.
- mickel25

Just curious but what would you say Hextalls Signature move was? I know he moved some money out. Got out from the Vinny deal. But what move helped start the transition to get this team on the right foot moving forward you can point to. Like what can you look at and say " Ok, I see what your doing here"

You say this all of the time. Chuck is absolutely not taking the draft and develop approach. He traded away three draft (1st, two 2nd) picks last offseason alone. He has made moves every year since getting the job and the team has gotten worse every year.

So this baseline philosophy that pretty much every GM has is lost on Fletcher. I would 100% take Hextall and his approach over Chuck Fletcher.
- mickel25

I didnt say all NHL teams take that approach. Chuck sucks.

Just curious but what would you say Hextalls Signature move was? I know he moved some money out. Got out from the Vinny deal. But what move helped start the transition to get this team on the right foot moving forward you can point to. Like what can you look at and say " Ok, I see what your doing here"
- J35Bacher

He also gets way to much credit for the Vinny deal. Vinny held all the cards. He could have sat in the press box and collected his money. He made that trade happen more than the GM imo.

Just curious but what would you say Hextalls Signature move was? I know he moved some money out. Got out from the Vinny deal. But what move helped start the transition to get this team on the right foot moving forward you can point to. Like what can you look at and say " Ok, I see what your doing here"
- J35Bacher

Look at the number of draft picks made each year under Hextall vs. Fletcher. Debate the selections all you want, but Hextall made drafting a priority. With the exception of the first year, they were making 8-10 picks each year.