Sure, you can look at it like that. Or... Colorado lost a lot of years straight too and then they didn't. The leafs missed the playoffs for 9 years at one point, and then they didn't.

None of that is next year, and if I'm going to let the past consume me and control my every thought about the future, I'm cheering for the wrong team.

I agree, there's work to be done elsewhere too.
- joel878

Yup! I agree man. You guys are not far at all in my opinion. Frankly a couple bounces here or there (including ref) and it’s a different ending. I do hate excuses so bottom line is it was a failure. But no way you need to blow up team and start again. Just a tweak here and there. If you need to move one of the 4 upfront then so be it - of not then great. I think a couple moves can be made to alter the look and play of this team without having to do something crazy…however moving one of the 2 polarizing guys in question would be a huge game changer for the unreal better!

They sucked at the time, big difference.
- Archaic

How is it that our core apparently haven't "sucked" but we still cannnot win?

I think Campbell is better then probably 75% of this list honestly.

Husso to me is on par with Campbell but somehow even less proven. I would call Keumper better but not worlds better. Can see him getting overpaid on the open market too.

Binnington and Gibson have far to much sketch at their sure to be pricetags and cap hits. You would have to (frank) the team up to fit them.

Georgiev hasn't proven a thing and really shouldn't even be in this group, the Rangers are reportedly considering not even qualifying him.

Francouz is older then Campbell and hasn't proven much either, although he did hold the fort with Keumper out.

Varlamov... Meh. Why not just go with what you know at that point. Fleury was dogpoop last year, he sat on the bench when it mattered.

I like Samsonov personally, a former first rounder at his age... I don't even think he's scratched his ceiling. If the caps are willing to give up on him, why not take a swing. I think him and Comrie would make a nice combo with affordable cap hits and plenty of upside, and you wouldn't have to gut the team to land them.
- joel878

I made a post about Gibson but I try to be open to other ideas and your idea of something like Samsonov and Comrie fits the bill too. I'd be fine with a tandem like that as well.

No chance we can afford Campbell plus another goalie equal to him.
- fifty__missions

Ya never know right. Who knows what moves could be made - it depends on what the Dubas moves out and how much he values tenders forwards balance.

Ya never know right. Who knows what moves could be made - it depends on what the Dubas moves out and how much he values tenders forwards balance.
- Big23Questions

Dubas has managed our goaltending position disastrously.

What I'm asking is what is something Dubas can do with the netminding position that actually makes us better? Or other positions as well for that matter?? Nice mind experiment, but he cannot acquire "every goalie in the league". What assets do you think he will part with to secure the goaltending position?

It's clear this team will need to improve to beat Tampa or Colorado.
- fifty__missions

I don’t know what changes he’s going to make. None of us do but of course he has to improve the team just like he did last summer. Look at the two roster and find one player who left who wasn’t replaced by someone better or cheaper. The 21-22 team was much better and it showed.

Dubas has managed our goaltending position disastrously.
- fifty__missions

Who are the goalies next year?

I don’t know what changes he’s going to make. None of us do but of course he has to improve the team just like he did last summer. Look at the two roster and find one player who left who wasn’t replaced by someone better or cheaper. The 21-22 team was much better and it showed.
- Canada Cup

Better or cheaper, huh.

This team is better with Zach Hyman, Zach Bogosian, and Freddie Andersen still on it.

Who are the goalies next year?
- Canada Cup

You tell me.

They have no idea.

Dubas has managed our goaltending position disastrously.
- fifty__missions

Oh I don’t know about that. I think Freddie is a way better goalie and a legit starter but he did also have a bunch of the same (that key) injuries 3 seasons on a row so I can appreciate where Dubas head was with thinking it was as good a time as any to let him go. Those were bad injuries man for a goalie.
The gamble on Mrazek and Campbell wasn’t atrocious at the time to be fair. Mrazek is or at was up to this point so much better than what you guys got to see. Still not a hero on net by any means but better. It was also all taking place during Covid and the cap and half season etc., so again to be fair it was an odd timing thing on top all that.
I would judge him based on this year. Wait and see how he addresses this season. I will be truthful and say I never thought Campbell/Mrazek was good enough with the way the Leafs play and their roster but I wouldn’t say it was a disaster of a decision.

You're forgetting that Dubas let go of one of the best backups at the time - Curtis Mcilhenny in place of Garret Sparks who was a disaster. Since then the backup has been a poopshow no matter who is starting. We've had the Hutchinson debacle, etc. Then, he gets a guy he thinks could be their #1...and they sign a different (frank)ing backup to a 3 yr, 3.8 million dollar contract. Which turns out to be another albatross. What in the blue (frank) he was thinking there I'll never know. And now he can't afford the guy he thought would be the #1.....

Royally (frank)ed up the goaltending.

Better or cheaper, huh.

This team is better with Zach Hyman, Zach Bogosian, and Freddie Andersen still on it.
- fifty__missions

But the team was worse with them on it. Freddie hasn’t played a playoff game in two years. Hyman wanted big money but Bunting outscores him at a fraction of the price and I’ll take Gio over Bogosian for less money.

Better or cheaper, huh.

This team is better with Zach Hyman, Zach Bogosian, and Freddie Andersen still on it.
- fifty__missions

Double

You tell me.

They have no idea.
- fifty__missions

You’re right, they probably haven’t thought about it yet.

You're forgetting that Dubas let go of one of the best backups at the time - Curtis Mcilhenny in place of Garret Sparks who was a disaster. Since then the backup has been a poopshow no matter who is starting. We've had the Hutchinson debacle, etc. Then, he gets a guy he thinks could be their #1...and they sign a different (frank)ing backup to a 3 yr, 3.8 million dollar contract. Which turns out to be another albatross. What in the blue (frank) he was thinking there I'll never know. And now he can't afford the guy he thought would be the #1.....

Royally (frank)ed up the goaltending.
- fifty__missions

No I never forgot that - I just think of backups as a dime a dozen. Sparks, Mcilhenny, Hutchinson - sure all different levels of talent but not moving the needle all that much at all. It matters but again between those guys not so much maybe a few regular season points here or there but matters not in post season.
The Mrazek thing was a part of the Freddie thing. He knew Freddie was a legit starter stand-alone and Campbell was certainly not so he needed to get another goalie to 1a 1b that net with Campbell. Mrazek was either injured or played poorly. I agree. But a disaster or atrocious Roy wasn’t. It was seemingly logical at the time and 20/20 vision is easy after the race is over.

But the team was worse with them on it. Freddie hasn’t played a playoff game in two years. Hyman wants big money but Bunting outscores him at a fraction of the price and I’ll take Gio over Bogosian for less money.
- Canada Cup

For cost I agree. I’d take Bunting (plus the left over cash used to help get other players he got) over 1 Hyman any day.

Gio 100% over Bogo

Freddie - as I mentioned with fifty was a decision Dubas had to make cause I injuries and contracts. He is no doubt a far better tender than Campbell but more than that went into the decision. Way more had to go into making it. But point taken with no playoff games as Freddie was I tied again…same area of body might I add…but no doubt he is a way better goalie healthy.

No I never forgot that - I just think of backups as a dime a dozen. Sparks, Mcilhenny, Hutchinson - sure all different levels of talent but not moving the needle all that much at all. It matters but again between those guys not so much maybe a few regular season points here or there but matters not in post season.
The Mrazek thing was a part of the Freddie thing. He knew Freddie was a legit starter stand-alone and Campbell was certainly not so he needed to get another goalie to 1a 1b that net with Campbell. Mrazek was either injured or played poorly. I agree. But a disaster or atrocious Roy wasn’t. It was seemingly logical at the time and 20/20 vision is easy after the race is over.
- Big23Questions

Not buying this.

There was no logic to giving a backup a 3 year 3.8 million dollar contract.

For cost I agree. I’d take Bunting (plus the left over cash used to help get other players he got) over 1 Hyman any day.

Gio 100% over Bogo

Freddie - as I mentioned with fifty was a decision Dubas had to make cause I injuries and contracts. He is no doubt a far better tender than Campbell but more than that went into the decision. Way more had to go into making it. But point taken with no playoff games as Freddie was I tied again…same area of body might I add…but no doubt he is a way better goalie healthy.
- Big23Questions

Yes, Freddie is a better goalie but everyone here wanted him run out of town and earlier this year were ready to give Campbell $6 or 7M/year.

You're forgetting that Dubas let go of one of the best backups at the time - Curtis Mcilhenny in place of Garret Sparks who was a disaster. Since then the backup has been a poopshow no matter who is starting. We've had the Hutchinson debacle, etc. Then, he gets a guy he thinks could be their #1...and they sign a different (frank)ing backup to a 3 yr, 3.8 million dollar contract. Which turns out to be another albatross. What in the blue (frank) he was thinking there I'll never know. And now he can't afford the guy he thought would be the #1.....

Royally (frank)ed up the goaltending.
- fifty__missions

Garret was coming off a AHL goalie of the year performance with the Marlies.
He Dubas, went with yutes over age. I agree that Garret was a disaster after the fact.
But you know, it could've gone the other way if he did criticize some of the play in front of him.
that's in the past and now, we have Mrázek and Källgren to look forward to

Not buying this.

There was no logic to giving a backup a 3 year 3.8 million dollar contract.
- fifty__missions

K

Garret was coming off a AHL goalie of the year performance with the Marlies.
He Dubas, went with yutes over age. I agree that Garret was a disaster after the fact.
But you know, it could've gone the other way if he did criticize some of the play in front of him.
that's in the past and now, we have Mrázek and Källgren to look forward to
- dmnted

4.55
Let it ride
Pick up scraps at deadline
🏆

Garret was coming off a AHL goalie of the year performance with the Marlies.
He Dubas, went with yutes over age. I agree that Garret was a disaster after the fact.
But you know, it could've gone the other way if he did criticize some of the play in front of him.
that's in the past and now, we have Mrázek and Källgren to look forward to
- dmnted

I'll only say buy out window isn't open yet, draft hasn't passed nor has free agency. I am expecting two new goalies.

Not buying this.

There was no logic to giving a backup a 3 year 3.8 million dollar contract.
- fifty__missions

Ok man. At the time the logic was that Mrazek wasn’t a backup though. He was going to split with Campbell. Maybe not 3.8 but not far off. He was never as bad as he was when he did get into the net. Had the plan been to only utilize Mrazek as a back up then yes it’s not a good idea. But that wasn’t the plan.

Ok man. At the time the logic was that Mrazek wasn’t a backup though. He was going to split with Campbell. Maybe not 3.8 but not far off. He was never as bad as he was when he did get into the net. Had the plan been to only utilize Mrazek as a back up then yes it’s not a good idea. But that wasn’t the plan.
- Big23Questions

You're wasting your time. No amount of logic, reasoning or common sense will sway fifty from his view point. He hates Dubas and his view of high skill over goons and won't be satisfied until it's the broadstreet bullies. No matter the fact Sakic let their starter go and then traded a 1st and top prospect for Keumper, who lost the net to Francouz a bit this year, or that tom wilson didn't play for Colorado and they don't really have a player like him, which begs the question of why fifty is still adamant that you need him or a guy like him to win. (to him there's no other option)

Not buying this.

There was no logic to giving a backup a 3 year 3.8 million dollar contract.
- fifty__missions

Mrazek wasn't a backup, he wasn't signed to be a backup. This is misrepresenting the facts to push your viewpoint.

A lot of teams with workhorses who actually have a backup found one on waivers, a cheap trade, or drafted with a mid round pick. Tampa had a legit backup and it was literally 37 year old Brian Elliot. It's not a difficult situation to fill, it's moot to the leafs cause they clearly don't plan on riding a starter to death.