A 5 year complete rebuild to win the cup would be pretty crazy. In the article it shows teams can start competing for the cup by making the playoffs at the 5 year point of the rebuild. A decent percentage of teams are placing top 5 in the standings at the 5 year mark.

So 8-10 years into the Flyers rebuild (if looking at how other teams generally perform 5 years in) the Flyers are significantly behind in this process.
- dubc55

No doubt that a team can be a playoff level team sooner. I believe that TB reached the 100 point level 3 years or so after drafting Stamkos. That's witha generational player. It took them 9 years and the addition of players like Kucherov and Point to break through to win the Cup.

The main point I'm trying to make is that patience is required both from management and the fan base. The Flyers are significantly behind because their process is flawed. As has been pointed out. Until they make major changes. It's not going to happen.

Lol. I really shouldn’t be surprised but the Flyers love to carry a useless punching bag.
- hereticpride

No biggie as they don't have enough internal players to fill the NHL roster.

A
Fletcher has this team positioned as a capped out team that is mediocre. He has made numerous poor moves. Aging the team and giving away assets. Fletcher and the Flyers organization as a whole are completely incompetent. The injuries have bailed him out. You still don't get that.
- MJL

I completely disagree with your assessment here. First the Flyers are NOT capped out. As Fletcher rightly pointed out, if he and his staff did nothing this summer the Flyers are cap compliant and they can ice a team. So this is not a team that is capped out! Secondly, if healthy the Flyers have some very good players and are better than mediocre. Are they a top flight cup contender? Of course not, but they are playoff team that is capable of doing damage, and that by my definition is not mediocre. Finally the Flyers have a good young core of players that could have a very positive impact on this club, and Fletcher has done nothing but add to this group, not subtract! The injuries if anything have bailed you out and your opinions of Fletcher and his staff, a lot more than the injuries have bailed out Fletcher if at all.

No doubt that a team can be a playoff level team sooner. I believe that TB reached the 100 point level 3 years or so after drafting Stamkos. That's witha generational player. It took them 9 years and the addition of players like Kucherov and Point to break through to win the Cup.

The main point I'm trying to make is that patience is required both from management and the fan base. The Flyers are significantly behind because their process is flawed. As has been pointed out. Until they make major changes. It's not going to happen.
- MJL

Agreed. Whatever approach they're taking (I'm still unsure) the process is significantly flawed.

I completely disagree with your assessment here. First the Flyers are NOT capped out. As Fletcher rightly pointed out, if he and his staff did nothing this summer the Flyers are cap compliant and they can ice a team. So this is not a team that is capped out! Secondly, if healthy the Flyers have some very good players and are better than mediocre. Are they a top flight cup contender? Of course not, but they are playoff team that is capable of doing damage, and that by my definition is not mediocre. Finally the Flyers have a good young core of players that could have a very positive impact on this club, and Fletcher has done nothing but add to this group, not subtract! The injuries if anything have bailed you out and your opinions of Fletcher and his staff, a lot more that they have bailed out Fletcher if at all.
- jd250

Every team has good players. So what. They are not a playoff team. Who are the finishing ahead of? You also act like other teams will not improve.

As far as the cap they have very very little wiggle room to add anyone of substance as it stands today.

Good young core. Why do you continue to beat that drum. There is nothing special or exciting about the "young" core. Their core is bottom of the league.

I completely disagree with your assessment here. First the Flyers are NOT capped out. As Fletcher rightly pointed out, if he and his staff did nothing this summer the Flyers are cap compliant and they can ice a team. So this is not a team that is capped out! Secondly, if healthy the Flyers have some very good players and are better than mediocre. Are they a top flight cup contender? Of course not, but they are playoff team that is capable of doing damage, and that by my definition is not mediocre. Finally the Flyers have a good young core of players that could have a very positive impact on this club, and Fletcher has done nothing but add to this group, not subtract! The injuries if anything have bailed you out and your opinions of Fletcher and his staff, a lot more than the injuries have bailed out Fletcher if at all.
- jd250

Let's not get crazy here. If everyone on the current roster gets healthy, including Ellis, and stays reasonably healthy through the season, maybe they get into the playoffs. I don't see "damage doing" going on though.

All of the speculation, pontification, re-evaluations aside....
We are winning cup next year:
Carter Hart will become the blending of Brodeur-Dryden-Roy-Pelle-Parent.
Provy wins Norris and is plus 20 in playoffs.
TK scores 30 goals and 3 playoff ot winners
Frosty has an 20 point season.
Ellis plays some games
Hayes becomes Playoff Primeau
Our first round pick wins rookie of the year and MVP of playoffs
Tippett double G's production of this year.
Power play top five
Pk top 10

Lets continue all summer long looking backwards so SARGENT-MJL can be right!!

I completely disagree with your assessment here. First the Flyers are NOT capped out. As Fletcher rightly pointed out, if he and his staff did nothing this summer the Flyers are cap compliant and they can ice a team. So this is not a team that is capped out! Secondly, if healthy the Flyers have some very good players and are better than mediocre. Are they a top flight cup contender? Of course not, but they are playoff team that is capable of doing damage, and that by my definition is not mediocre. Finally the Flyers have a good young core of players that could have a very positive impact on this club, and Fletcher has done nothing but add to this group, not subtract! The injuries if anything have bailed you out and your opinions of Fletcher and his staff, a lot more than the injuries have bailed out Fletcher if at all.
- jd250

Do I really have to explain the cap to you again? You can be capped out and even over the upper limit and be cap compliant. Every time there is a cap discussion, I have to explain the basics to you. The Flyers have about 5M in cap space and still need to sign some players. They will be a cap team or pretty close to it. If Fletcher makes some moves to clear cap space, such as JVR. Do you think he will bank that cap space or will he spend it?

Capable of doing damage? lol To whom? TB, Carolina, Rangers?

You don't even realize that you contradict yourself with your own post. If it wasn't for the injuries, the Flyers would be a playoff team or on the bubble. Picking middle of the pack as a middle of the pack team. That is the definition of being a team that is not good enough while being capped out. That is the worst position a team can be in and that is where Fletcher and the incompetent organization have the team. Ready to double down and continue their flawed approach.

Fletcher has traded a 1st round pick, multiple 2nd round picks and later as well as some young player to bring in older players such as Braun, Ellis, Ristolainen etc.

I completely disagree with your assessment here. First the Flyers are NOT capped out. As Fletcher rightly pointed out, if he and his staff did nothing this summer the Flyers are cap compliant and they can ice a team. So this is not a team that is capped out! Secondly, if healthy the Flyers have some very good players and are better than mediocre. Are they a top flight cup contender? Of course not, but they are playoff team that is capable of doing damage, and that by my definition is not mediocre. Finally the Flyers have a good young core of players that could have a very positive impact on this club, and Fletcher has done nothing but add to this group, not subtract! The injuries if anything have bailed you out and your opinions of Fletcher and his staff, a lot more than the injuries have bailed out Fletcher if at all.
- jd250

How youve made it to this point in youre life is astounding

Let's not get crazy here. If everyone on the current roster gets healthy, including Ellis, and stays reasonably healthy through the season, maybe they get into the playoffs. I don't see "damage doing" going on though.
- Scoob

His comments are delusional without an understanding of the salary cap.

Do I really have to explain the cap to you again? You can be capped out and even over the upper limit and be cap compliant. Every time there is a cap discussion, I have to explain the basics to you. The Flyers have about 5M in cap space and still need to sign some players. They will be a cap team or pretty close to it. If Fletcher makes some moves to clear cap space, such as JVR. Do you think he will bank that cap space or will he spend it?

Capable of doing damage? lol To whom? TB, Carolina, Rangers?

You don't even realize that you contradict yourself with your own post. If it wasn't for the injuries, the Flyers would be a playoff team or on the bubble. Picking middle of the pack as a middle of the pack team. That is the definition of being a team that is not good enough while being capped out. That is the worst position a team can be in and that is where Fletcher and the incompetent organization have the team. Ready to double down and continue their flawed approach.

Fletcher has traded a 1st round pick, multiple 2nd round picks and later as well as some young player to bring in older players such as Braun, Ellis, Ristolainen etc.
- MJL

I want to be a smart as you someday...
How did you not land a job in NHL?
That shocks me, Sargent!!

Do I really have to explain the cap to you again? You can be capped out and even over the upper limit and be cap compliant. Every time there is a cap discussion, I have to explain the basics to you. The Flyers have about 5M in cap space and still need to sign some players. They will be a cap team or pretty close to it. If Fletcher makes some moves to clear cap space, such as JVR. Do you think he will bank that cap space or will he spend it?

Capable of doing damage? lol To whom? TB, Carolina, Rangers?

You don't even realize that you contradict yourself with your own post. If it wasn't for the injuries, the Flyers would be a playoff team or on the bubble. Picking middle of the pack as a middle of the pack team. That is the definition of being a team that is not good enough while being capped out. That is the worst position a team can be in and that is where Fletcher and the incompetent organization have the team. Ready to double down and continue their flawed approach.

Fletcher has traded a 1st round pick, multiple 2nd round picks and later as well as some young player to bring in older players such as Braun, Ellis, Ristolainen etc.
- MJL

Braun was a good trade Cliff.

just cant have nice things, apparently our Russian goalie is a draft dodger per Putin. All Russian picks just dropped like a rock, 7th round gems baby

Every team has good players. So what. They are not a playoff team. Who are the finishing ahead of? You also act like other teams will not improve.

As far as the cap they have very very little wiggle room to add anyone of substance as it stands today.

Good young core. Why do you continue to beat that drum. There is nothing special or exciting about the "young" core. Their core is bottom of the league.
- hello it's me 2050

If you want to believe this you are entitled, but I simply disagree with you that everything that is Flyers is doom and gloom! This team's veteran core has been decimated by injuries, there is no getting around that. They also have several good players in the mid 20s and several younger players like York, Cates, Tippet, Frost and Brink that I for am looking forward to seeing them develop. So you can continue the narrative that the Flyers are cooked as long as Fletcher is involved, but I simply don't believe that. We'll see how this off season goes and how the team responds next year.

If you want to believe this you are entitled, but I simply disagree with you that everything that is Flyers is doom and gloom! This team's veteran core has been decimated by injuries, there is no getting around that. They also have several good players in the mid 20s and several younger players like York, Cates, Tippet, Frost and Brink that I for am looking forward to seeing them develop. So you can continue the narrative that the Flyers are cooked as long as Fletcher is involved, but I simply don't believe that. We'll see how this off season goes and how the team responds next year.
- jd250

BATTERED WOMEN SYNDROME

Braun was a good trade Cliff.
- hello it's me 2050

If trading a second round and a third round pick for a 32 year old defenseman is a good trade, why would everyone be so up in arms for trading for Ristolainen using a first and a roster player?

If you want to believe this you are entitled, but I simply disagree with you that everything that is Flyers is doom and gloom! This team's veteran core has been decimated by injuries, there is no getting around that. They also have several good players in the mid 20s and several younger players like York, Cates, Tippet, Frost and Brink that I for am looking forward to seeing them develop. So you can continue the narrative that the Flyers are cooked as long as Fletcher is involved, but I simply don't believe that. We'll see how this off season goes and how the team responds next year.
- jd250

as a fan you deserve your optimism, I am usually team positive, I hold some of the hope and ideas you do but I am not nearly as optimistic as you. I think "do some damage" is where you lost. That would take a perfect draft, perfect FA season, perfect CAP management, perfect trades (Lindblom, JVR) and a perfect come back season from all young NHL talent and Vets, but hey, as a fan I am all in for it to happen. I will say that the Flyers being a middle of the pack could have been the same scenario if Hextall was still here, they would still be picking middle of the pack based upon the team he constructed, the more it changes the more it stays the same.

Do I really have to explain the cap to you again? You can be capped out and even over the upper limit and be cap compliant. Every time there is a cap discussion, I have to explain the basics to you. The Flyers have about 5M in cap space and still need to sign some players. They will be a cap team or pretty close to it. If Fletcher makes some moves to clear cap space, such as JVR. Do you think he will bank that cap space or will he spend it?

Capable of doing damage? lol To whom? TB, Carolina, Rangers?

You don't even realize that you contradict yourself with your own post. If it wasn't for the injuries, the Flyers would be a playoff team or on the bubble. Picking middle of the pack as a middle of the pack team. That is the definition of being a team that is not good enough while being capped out. That is the worst position a team can be in and that is where Fletcher and the incompetent organization have the team. Ready to double down and continue their flawed approach.

Fletcher has traded a 1st round pick, multiple 2nd round picks and later as well as some young player to bring in older players such as Braun, Ellis, Ristolainen etc.
- MJL

Ok, so your the GM, what would you do? Would you stock pile every single pick you can? Never make a trade to try to improve the team? Waste the prime years of Couturier just like Hextall wasted the prime years of G and Jake? Would you trade almost every veteran you have so you pick in the top 5 of the draft for successive years in a row, because again that is not what Hextall did? If anyone contradicts themselves it is YOU!

If you want to believe this you are entitled, but I simply disagree with you that everything that is Flyers is doom and gloom! This team's veteran core has been decimated by injuries, there is no getting around that. They also have several good players in the mid 20s and several younger players like York, Cates, Tippet, Frost and Brink that I for am looking forward to seeing them develop. So you can continue the narrative that the Flyers are cooked as long as Fletcher is involved, but I simply don't believe that. We'll see how this off season goes and how the team responds next year.
- jd250

Believe what? I laid out all facts.

Lets play forget the injuries. Their vet core is a core that is nowhere near good enough to this team anywhere. Dems the facts.

Every team has players who are good in their mid 20's. Again so what. The Flyers ones are vanilla as can be. The core as you put it is also nothing to brag about. Every team more or less has the same types.

Frost and Tippet are more suspect than anything at this point. I do not have much faith in them being any type if diff maker. If they can carve out an NHL career that would be a bonus.

There is no narrative. Any objective hockey fan with a shred of knowledge can see what kind of shape this team is in currently. Open up your eyes.

as a fan you deserve your optimism, I am usually team positive, I hold some of the hope and ideas you do but I am not nearly as optimistic as you. I thing "do some damage" is where you lost. That would take a perfect draft, perfect FA season, perfect CAP management, perfect trades (Lindblom, JVR) and a perfect come back season from all young NHL talent and Vets, but hey, as a fan I am all in for it to happen. I will say that the Flyers being a middle of the pack could have been the same scenario if Hextall was still here, they would still be picking middle of the pack based upon the team he constructed, the more it changes the more it stays the same.
- wcorvette

I think if healthy this team right now could win a playoff series, I really do. The problem is they are not healthy and there is really no light at the end of the tunnel right now in that regard. This team and franchise as a whole has had the worst injury luck I have ever witnessed, its really crazy. Now Farabee gets Eichel like disc replacement as a consequence of doing a light workout? You can't begin to even make this up!

I'm sure that played into it some but healthy, Ellis is a legit RH top pair defenseman. Teams don't normally look to give them away. Top pair RH defenseman are much tougher to come by than LH 2nd pair defenseman like Ekholm.
- MJL

Ekholm is not a 2nd pair dman. He played 23:29 a game for the Preds, 18:40 at ES. Both 2nd on the team.

Ok, so your the GM, what would you do? Would you stock pile every single pick you can? Never make a trade to try to improve the team? Waste the prime years of Couturier just like Hextall wasted the prime years of G and Jake? Would you trade almost every veteran you have so you pick in the top 5 of the draft for successive years in a row, because again that is not what Hextall did? If anyone contradicts themselves it is YOU!
- jd250

Right now, yes I would waste the prime years of Couturier. I would focus on drafting and developing. I would not be averse to moving picks for young quality players. I would not be averse to adding short term low cost to acquire vets to help now. I would not be making moves for older players in an attempt to win now.


Now if you can show me where I have ever stated that the Flyers should trade almost every veteran or that I stated that's what Hextalll did, so I am now contradicting myself. I'd be happy to read that.

Again, you are inventing your own fantasy reality.

If trading a second round and a third round pick for a 32 year old defenseman is a good trade, why would everyone be so up in arms for trading for Ristolainen using a first and a roster player?
- SuperSchennBros

Once again you show your intelligence. I will lay it out for you holmes.

The prior GM let Ivan and Sanheim hung out to dry. He did nothing to help them along. Thrown to the wolves. One thing Chuck recognized that this needed to be addressed. Therefore he went out and traded for a top 4 dman to help on and off the ice with the "young" Dman. Braun filled that rile just fine

Are you with me so far?

As far as the RR trade. The fact you see nothing wrong with it doesn't warrant any response.

If trading a second round and a third round pick for a 32 year old defenseman is a good trade, why would everyone be so up in arms for trading for Ristolainen using a first and a roster player?
- SuperSchennBros

Braun was good defensively and had a cheap cap hit, while Risto is bad defensively and doesn't.

Risto cost a 2nd as well as the first and Hagg. And another 2nd to move Ghost to make room for him.

Ekholm is not a 2nd pair dman. He played 23:29 a game for the Preds, 18:40 at ES. Both 2nd on the team.
- Feanor

He was a 2nd pair defenseman when Ellis was there.