JR and Alvin have both said free agents walking for nothing isn’t happening anymore, either Miller signs or he’s traded at some point before TDL or at the TDL, I’ll take their word for it. No worries here about him walking for nothing.

I only gave Neem examples of what PA may be thinking. Not how I feel. You are probably right. PA is mishandling the situation if he won't let teams talk with Miller's agent. It's also an eye opener to the state of negotiations.
- boonerbuck

Not really. If he lets other teams negotiate that could close the market if the asking price for the next contract is too high. It doesn't make any sense to let other teams negotiate until they are definitely buyers. Part of what they're trading for is that control.

JR and Alvin have both said free agents walking for nothing isn’t happening anymore, either Miller signs or he’s traded at some point before TDL or at the TDL, I’ll take their word for it. No worries here about him walking for nothing.
- Bettmanhatesus

Sure, instead of trading Miller for a haul now and setting us up for years, we get maybe an extra 3rd at TDL after he either is injured or has the down year that is coming.

Not really. If he lets other teams negotiate that could close the market if the asking price for the next contract is too high. It doesn't make any sense to let other teams negotiate until they are definitely buyers. Part of what they're trading for is that control.
- Load Management

Canucks just have to decide if they’re going to make an extension happen, or a trade. If you are going to trade, then you have to let teams talk to the agent.

Not really. If he lets other teams negotiate that could close the market if the asking price for the next contract is too high. It doesn't make any sense to let other teams negotiate until they are definitely buyers. Part of what they're trading for is that control.
- Load Management

Weed out the tire kickers.

Canucks just have to decide if they’re going to make an extension happen, or a trade. If you are going to trade, then you have to let teams talk to the agent.
- 1970vintage

Like I said, no you don't. It doesn't make sense to hand over negotiation rights to a contract you're trying to move until you reach an agreement to move it.

Like I said, no you don't. It doesn't make sense to hand over negotiation rights to a contract you're trying to move until you reach an agreement to move it.
- Load Management

Teams aren’t going to agree to the deal you want unless they are getting the deal they want.

It would be like trying to buy a used car, but the seller won’t let you get it checked by a mechanic.

IF you have determined that you are making the trade, you lose nothing by allowing teams to negotiate with the agent, unless you have something to hide.

Teams aren’t going to agree to the deal you want unless they are getting the deal they want.

It would be like trying to buy a used car, but the seller won’t let you get it checked by a mechanic.

IF you have determined that you are making the trade, you lose nothing by allowing teams to negotiate with the agent, unless you have something to hide.
- 1970vintage

I disagree. Your analogy is more in line with a doctor’s medical clearance. If he doesn’t want to go to the inquiring destination, he just has to make an outrageous demand and the deal is dead.

Teams aren’t going to agree to the deal you want unless they are getting the deal they want.

It would be like trying to buy a used car, but the seller won’t let you get it checked by a mechanic.

IF you have determined that you are making the trade, you lose nothing by allowing teams to negotiate with the agent, unless you have something to hide.
- 1970vintage

It's not even close to buying a used car. Players have to pass physicals all the time. Teams are responsible for their own due diligence in that regard.

What we are talking about here, I think anyways, is allowing another team to negotiate a contract with Miller before terms of a trade are agreed upon. And I think that is foolish.

Not really. If he lets other teams negotiate that could close the market if the asking price for the next contract is too high. It doesn't make any sense to let other teams negotiate until they are definitely buyers. Part of what they're trading for is that control.
- Load Management

I wasn't suggesting leaving discussions wide open for the whole league. If you have your best trade in principle worked out and it hinges on Miller's willingness to negotiate a new contact with that trade partner, you need to open up the communication to get that trade complete or miss out. You are not very likely going to get a better return by denying that to every trade partner.

Like I said, no you don't. It doesn't make sense to hand over negotiation rights to a contract you're trying to move until you reach an agreement to move it.
- Load Management

You obviously misunderstood the discussions on this.

If PA knows Miller isn't holding out for UFA status, then it only backfires if he won't let a trade partner get confirmation of this from his agent. Expect the return to be much smaller than it could potentially be.

If it indeed looks like Miller is going to UFA, then by all means... keep that under wraps as best you can.... but I doubt you'll be fooling anyone and the market will sour on Miller. This might be happening now in fact.

Weed out the tire kickers.
- VanHockeyGuy

Don't give permission to tire kickers is all...

You obviously misunderstood the discussions on this.
- boonerbuck

I was expanding on your statement that PA wasn't doing his job if he didn't let other teams talk with Miller's agent. I don't agree with that narrative especially with the variables you presented is all. I fully comprehended the discussions.

Don't give permission to tire kickers is all...
- boonerbuck

Why not? Give permission to anyone interested. It won’t have any effect on the outcome except if it’s positive. If they don’t like what they hear they walk away. Which is what they do anyway if you don’t let them talk. Literally zero downside to letting anyone discuss prior to a trade.

If PA knows Miller isn't holding out for UFA status, then it only backfires if he won't let a trade partner get confirmation of this from his agent. Expect the return to be much smaller than it could potentially be.

If it indeed looks like Miller is going to UFA, then by all means... keep that under wraps as best you can.... but I doubt you'll be fooling anyone and the market will sour on Miller. This might be happening now in fact.
- boonerbuck

Honestly, this is what I see happening, it's clear Miller wants the moon and knows he won't get it if he gets traded and negotiates an extension now. He wants the big dollars and that'll only come if he holds out until UFA next year. It's why we'll be lucky to unload him by TDL for a 3rd if he's not willing to negotiate with teams that might be willing to do a deal with us.

I was expanding on your statement that PA wasn't doing his job if he didn't let other teams talk with Miller's agent. I don't agree with that narrative especially with the variables you presented is all. I fully comprehended the discussions.
- Load Management

Like I've shown, there are scenarios where he shouldn't open communications but I doubt that will improve his position still.

If there is a big trade offer, it would be a mistake to walk away from it to prevent that team from getting confirmation from Miller that he's willing to negotiate instead of going for UFA. Keep in mind hat this discussion stems from the Islander rumor. Context.

Honestly, this is what I see happening, it's clear Miller wants the moon and knows he won't get it if he gets traded and negotiates an extension now. He wants the big dollars and that'll only come if he holds out until UFA next year. It's why we'll be lucky to unload him by TDL for a 3rd if he's not willing to negotiate with teams that might be willing to do a deal with us.
- DariusKnight

You are probably right. I get the feeling management knows Miller is holding out for a UFA contract and having as much control on where he goes as possible. PA blocking communication is revealing like I said in the beginning of this discussion. Hoping a team takes a shot anyways. Unfortunately, this scenario kills a bidding war.

In hind sight, the TDL was probably their best opportunity.

Like I've shown, there are scenarios where he shouldn't open communications but I doubt that will improve his position still.

If there is a big trade offer, it would be a mistake to walk away from it to prevent that team from getting confirmation from Miller that he's willing to negotiate instead of going for UFA. Keep in mind hat this discussion stems from the Islander rumor. Context.
- boonerbuck

I see it this way, if you let teams negotiate with your players during trade talks it's actually giving up control of the bargaining process. There's a big difference between an offer and an agreement. Opening a contract to outside negotiations based on an offer is flat out foolish regardless of the scenario.

I see it this way, if you let teams negotiate with your players during trade talks it's actually giving up control of the bargaining process. There's a big difference between an offer and an agreement. Opening a contract to outside negotiations based on an offer is flat out foolish regardless of the scenario.
- Load Management

I guess it depends... A team presents you with an excellent offer on the condition that the player is open to negotiating an extension. You say no to them gaining that confirmation, they walk. You just kissed your best return goodbye. Where does it give up control of the bargaining process? In fact, it's the last step in the bargaining process...

Unless you know before hand that your player is heading for UFA, then there is no risk. If this is the case, then you are trying to fleece your trade partner in a bad way.... which will seriously sour the markets in future trades on a trust level.

It’s it just me or does the new Elias look like Dolf Lungern?

I see it this way, if you let teams negotiate with your players during trade talks it's actually giving up control of the bargaining process. There's a big difference between an offer and an agreement. Opening a contract to outside negotiations based on an offer is flat out foolish regardless of the scenario.
- Load Management

I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure though, that when you have a deal in place, the team trading for the player gets a chance to talk to the player and work out a deal for an extension, before the deal goes through.

I'm pretty sure it's standard procedure though, that when you have a deal in place, the team trading for the player gets a chance to talk to the player and work out a deal for an extension, before the deal goes through.
- DariusKnight

It has in the past and when it's been denied, its been a deal breaker. Of course somethings up if you say no...

It has in the past and when it's been denied, its been a deal breaker. Of course somethings up if you say no...
- boonerbuck

If he doesn’t want to go to the Islanders he can make an outrageous extension demand.
Free agents don’t exactly flock to go there.