- THE BLACK HAND

That's the most intelligent thing you've ever said on here. Perhaps there is hope for you after all, but nah. You're still a strapperhead and always will be in my eyes. Thanks!

Flyers are drawing disproportionately from the riff raff section (does not mean everyone is riff raff, ofc not saying that). This is surely correlated with the on ice product. But I don't know what leads to what. Their fan base is aging.

Put lack of sporting success + stagnation + aging fan base + drawing higher fraction of riff raff = growing marginalization as a sporting entity.

You may disagree, but you have to admit I provide a reason for my pov.
- PT21

Well the riff raff section really dont spend that kind of money to go to hockey games.

Disagree 100% they are drawing from that "section". Total opposite imo.

Gostisbehere was not a disaster on the Flyers top pairing. He and Provorov actually played well together. Again, you don't seem to understand that DeAngelo is not superior to Gostisbehere on the PP.
- MJL

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You will never admit that Ghost sucks and that Hexy was an average GM at best. Gotta give ya credit though. You will stick to those agendas no matter what! Congrats! And thanks again!

That's the most intelligent thing you've ever said on here. Perhaps there is hope for you after all, but nah. You're still a strapperhead and always will be in my eyes. Thanks!

- Phillywhiteout

Yet you ignore the post on jiricek. I wonder what idiot wrote that about him

Youre a fraud, knownothing moron

confronted

Andy was/is a workaholic. Many football coaches are. I remember when Jon Gruden would come to work a little after 3 in the morning, leading to him being called John 3:16.

So he probably neglected his family. But Andy is known to be very compassionate guy as a coach. I am digressing on your digression but since you bought it up...
- PT21

I agree with everything you just said but does that make it right? Do his responsibilities as a parent disappear because he's a workaholic and famous coach? Does he bear any responsibility for his son, who was only a member of the chiefs staff because of his father, was driving home from the chiefs facility, drunk (with previous dui, road rage on his record) at 84 mi/hr and slammed into a car carrying 2 young kids?

Yet you ignore the post on jiricek. I wonder what idiot wrote that about him

Youre a fraud, knownothing moron

confronted
- THE BLACK HAND

Gee, if I had a dime for every time you called me that I could retire tomorrow. Why don't you try to get some originality to your game? You are actually quite boring with your repeated dumbass comebacks.

I didn't respond to your post about the defenseman that you wanted cause it had absolutely no impact on how I felt. I wanted a splash and dash forward out of this draft cause the Flyers need some pizazz added to their vanilla team! I wanted Nazar before the draft and I wanted him even more after I saw his interview. I really had no interest in a stay at home defender that had a bad knee injury this season. Oh, and for the record I am okay with the Gauthier pick. At least he brings some size and talent to a team that needs some size at the forward position, and apparently he can skate a la Jeff Carter or Chris Kreider. Thanks again!

I do agree there are fans that take it to far, how you frame it suggest it sizable portion of the fan base that will continue to grow, what data do you have to support your opinion? Any data that shows it is any different than what other franchises experience when their teams are shxting the bed? How is this being measured? Who determines what is being said fits into this category?
- wcorvette

No, I did not say that fraction will grow. It does not need to.

Philly is an overwhelmingly Democrat, and overwhelmingly multiracial town. Most fans who come to Flyers games are white, and now apparently, persistently vocal in expressing opinions that are minority opinions in the city. Neither the composition nor the opinions are ones you see/hear in other sporting events. In other words, they are already a small segment of the fan base in the city. Which is aging.

Then there is the fact that those 'opinions' are being chanted at events which have nothing to do with politics, and not just once. If the reputation comes up that Flyers games are places where you encounter such boorish behavior, it will start to be seen as a place where some families will not go, irrespective of which way they lean. Just like many families didn't take their kids to the Vet.

I am putting together a hypothesis. There have been many losing streaks in the city of teams, and many tough times. I am not aware of such behavior.

I pretty much said the same thing I did last time. I am not sure what 'data' you need, but I tried.

I agree with everything you just said but does that make it right? Do his responsibilities as a parent disappear because he's a workaholic and famous coach? Does he bear any responsibility for his son, who was only a member of the chiefs staff because of his father, was driving home from the chiefs facility, drunk (with previous dui, road rage on his record) at 84 mi/hr and slammed into a car carrying 2 young kids?
- Flyers_01

Good god. Give the guy a break. His kids grew up suburban and privileged and became adults. What can he do?

So much for trying to rebuild the Flyer’s culture.
So much for bringing together the locker room.

This is Chuck Fletcher destroying the Flyer’s by making mistakes to cover up his previous mistakes.

I used to hope that players like Couts and Provy wouldn’t leave because of how poorly the Flyer’s are run.

Now I hope they do leave so that they can have a decent career without being asked to carry the weight of incompetent arrogance on display by Flyer’s management since 2012 and the refusal to fire Lavy in the off-season. Holmgren wouldn’t get him the right type of players for his system an Lavy didn’t adapt to the type of players he had.

Bill, would it be career suicide for you to seek an interview with a Comcast corporate officer about how they view what is going on with the Flyer’s?

Being able to ensure that the vendors have enough drinking cups is about as far as I’d be willing to trust Dave Scott with anything.

How much do any of you wanna bet that if Ed Snider were alive that Dave Scott would have been fired by now?

Chuck Fletcher is a joke.

There is no one who can save this franchise. Bobby Clarke is a bitter man who is out of touch with the modern game and arrogant. Paul Holmgren wants nothing to do with the Flyers anymore. Dave Scott is a glorified Fast food store manager. Chuck Fletcher is living off his father’s accomplishments and the favors of his fathers friends.

No, I did not say that fraction will grow. It does not need to.

Philly is an overwhelmingly Democrat, and overwhelmingly multiracial town. Most fans who come to Flyers games are white, and now apparently, persistently vocal in expressing opinions that are minority opinions in the city. Neither the composition nor the opinions are ones you see/hear in other sporting events. In other words, they are already a small segment of the fan base in the city. Which is aging.

Then there is the fact that those 'opinions' are being chanted at events which have nothing to do with politics, and not just once. If the reputation comes up that Flyers games are places where you encounter such boorish behavior, it will start to be seen as a place where some families will not go, irrespective of which way they lean. Just like many families didn't take their kids to the Vet.

I am putting together a hypothesis. There have been many losing streaks in the city of teams, and many tough times. I am not aware of such behavior.

I pretty much said the same thing I did last time. I am not sure what 'data' you need, but I tried.

- PT21

Disagree. The tide has turned. Now you will still have democrats elected as most who vote that way are trained to sadly. Doesn't mean they hold demo views. Many do not. Even the unions are shying away. The demo party from 30 years ago is dead. Not the same party I grew up with.

Just curious as what chants are you hearing. I do not recall anything even news worthy being said

Gee, if I had a dime for every time you called me that I could retire tomorrow. Why don't you try to get some originality to your game? You are actually quite boring with your repeated dumbass comebacks.

I didn't respond to your post about the defenseman that you wanted cause it had absolutely no impact on how I felt. I wanted a splash and dash forward out of this draft cause the Flyers need some pizazz added to their vanilla team! I wanted Nazar before the draft and I wanted him even more after I saw his interview. I really had no interest in a stay at home defender that had a bad knee injury this season. Oh, and for the record I am okay with the Gauthier pick. At least he brings some size and talent to a team that needs some size at the forward position, and apparently he can skate a la Jeff Carter or Chris Kreider. Thanks again!
- Phillywhiteout

thats not the reason you delusional, transparent, disingenuous lying scumbag

So much for trying to rebuild the Flyer’s culture.
So much for bringing together the locker room.

This is Chuck Fletcher destroying the Flyer’s by making mistakes to cover up his previous mistakes.

I used to hope that players like Couts and Provy wouldn’t leave because of how poorly the Flyer’s are run.

Now I hope they do leave so that they can have a decent career without being asked to carry the weight of incompetent arrogance on display by Flyer’s management since 2012 and the refusal to fire Lavy in the off-season. Holmgren wouldn’t get him the right type of players for his system an Lavy didn’t adapt to the type of players he had.

Bill, would it be career suicide for you to seek an interview with a Comcast corporate officer about how they view what is going on with the Flyer’s?

Being able to ensure that the vendors have enough drinking cups is about as far as I’d be willing to trust Dave Scott with anything.

How much do any of you wanna bet that if Ed Snider were alive that Dave Scott would have been fired by now?

Chuck Fletcher is a joke.

There is no one who can save this franchise. Bobby Clarke is a bitter man who is out of touch with the modern game and arrogant. Paul Holmgren wants nothing to do with the Flyers anymore. Dave Scott is a glorified Fast food store manager. Chuck Fletcher is living off his father’s accomplishments and the favors of his fathers friends.
- Shrike

Tony D will be a breath of fresh air in that boring vanilla accept losing mentality locker room.

I also hope they leave as they are not part of the solution going forward.

You have me there. Fifth NHL team, not Fifth chance. I could argue that every off-ice incident or publicized on ice incidents that the teams looked the other way consist of a chance but I am not going to get drawn into a marathon session.

Let's leave it as he's had chances and as recently as his 3rd team, 2 years ago, he was radioactive but talented.
- Flyers_01

What has to happen is that in the context of the conversation and his past actions. How many of the teams that moved him, moved him because of those actions. Carolina surely didn't.

Good god. Give the guy a break. His kids grew up suburban and privileged and became adults. What can he do?
- PT21

Reid and Tony Dungy are terrible parents. They put their career ahead of their family.

I have seen Tony D play a lot of games. He has a ton of offensive talent and competes very hard something the Flyers truly dont have and need. He will give you 100% and for a guy who is not so big wont take any crap on the ice. He will do some dumb things and take some dumb penalties as he gets easily frustrated and you can easily get under his skin. As a hockey player he will help the Flyers but likely will be out of here in 2 yrs as he will rub too many people the wrong way. I have no problem with the Flyers bringing him in but I have a big problem with the hypocrisy of the Flyers organization. Flyers ban Kate Smith for life for words in a song from 80 yrs ago that a black man also song at a time when it wasnt deemed an issue but are willing to bring in a player who has said worse in a time when it is clearly inappropriate and unacceptable. I guess if Kate could skate and run the PP her words in the song wouldnt have mattered

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You will never admit that Ghost sucks and that Hexy was an average GM at best. Gotta give ya credit though. You will stick to those agendas no matter what! Congrats! And thanks again!
- Phillywhiteout

You got me. Who could form a rebuttal to this? Just too much logic and facts to disagree with.

What has to happen is that in the context of the conversation and his past actions. How many of the teams that moved him, moved him because of those actions. Carolina surely didn't.
- MJL

Neither did Arizona I do not believe.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. You will never admit that Ghost sucks and that Hexy was an average GM at best. Gotta give ya credit though. You will stick to those agendas no matter what! Congrats! And thanks again!
- Phillywhiteout

I'm gonna knock it down
Any way that I can
I'm gonna scream, I'm gonna yell
I don't wanna have to use my hands

It's like screaming at a wall
It's like screaming at a wall
It's like screaming at a wall
It's like screaming at a wall
Someday it's gonna fall

I have seen Tony D play a lot of games. He has a ton of offensive talent and competes very hard something the Flyers truly dont have and need. He will give you 100% and for a guy who is not so big wont take any crap on the ice. He will do some dumb things and take some dumb penalties as he gets easily frustrated and you can easily get under his skin. As a hockey player he will help the Flyers but likely will be out of here in 2 yrs as he will rub too many people the wrong way. I have no problem with the Flyers bringing him in but I have a big problem with the hypocrisy of the Flyers organization. Flyers ban Kate Smith for life for words in a song from 80 yrs ago that a black man also song at a time when it wasnt deemed an issue but are willing to bring in a player who has said worse in a time when it is clearly inappropriate and unacceptable. I guess if Kate could skate and run the PP her words in the song wouldnt have mattered
- hfc355

A lot is going to depend on DeAngelo's deployment and usage. He's definitely a good offensive defenseman who will add to the Flyers in a few areas. However there is a reason why Carolina declined to pay him what his market value is. That's because he is only effective on one side of the puck. Carolina was able to hide his deficiencies with their team play. Can the Flyers? As Tomahawk pointed out, if the right side of the Flyers defense is DeAngelo, Ristolainen, and Attard. That spells big trouble defensively. I don't care about the past incidents. It seems as though he has moved past that and matured. We'll see about that. I care more about the blatant mis-management and continually giving away future assets in an attempt to win now.

A lot is going to depend on DeAngelo's deployment and usage. He's definitely a good offensive defenseman who will add to the Flyers in a few areas. However there is a reason why Carolina declined to pay him what his market value is. That's because he is only effective on one side of the puck. Carolina was able to hide his deficiencies with their team play. Can the Flyers? As Tomahawk pointed out, if the right side of the Flyers defense is DeAngelo, Ristolainen, and Attard. That spells big trouble defensively. I don't care about the past incidents. It seems as though he has moved past that and matured. We'll see about that. I care more about the blatant mis-management and continually giving away future assets in an attempt to win now.
- MJL

That isnt going to change. They are foolish going in the direction they want to take.

So start looking at the moves they make in a diff light Cliff. The move itself to help the team is good.

There are likely several factors they didn't want to pay him Cliff. Stop acting like the expert you think you are when you really do not know.

Flyers are drawing disproportionately from the riff raff section (does not mean everyone is riff raff, ofc not saying that). This is surely correlated with the on ice product. But I don't know what leads to what. Their fan base is aging.

Put lack of sporting success + stagnation + aging fan base + drawing higher fraction of riff raff = growing marginalization as a sporting entity.

You may disagree, but you have to admit I provide a reason for my pov.
- PT21

Actually you don't. You don't have a single legitimate reason for labeling a group of people as riff raff. It's complete elitist arrogance.

Disagree. The tide has turned. Now you will still have democrats elected as most who vote that way are trained to sadly. Doesn't mean they hold demo views. Many do not. Even the unions are shying away. The demo party from 30 years ago is dead. Not the same party I grew up with.

Just curious as what chants are you hearing. I do not recall anything even news worthy being said
- hello it's me 2050

Te reason you think "the tide has turned" is because you only hobnob with people like yourself. Philly voted 81-18 D in 2020.

More to the point, if a franchise is located in a city where its fan base does not reflect it ethnically, politically and it also starts to lose the bougie crowd, all I can say is good luck with the future in the city.

As for bold, read back.

Te reason you think "the tide has turned" is because you only hobnob with people like yourself. Philly voted 81-18 D in 2020.

More to the point, if a franchise is located in a city where its fan base does not reflect it ethnically, politically and it also starts to lose the bougie crowd, all I can say is good luck with the future in the city.

As for bold, read back.
- PT21

Not reading back. There are no chants that are even worth while to talk about. Philly is schitt hole. Future is bleak.

Unlike you I hob knob with the lower class. Unlike you I have a much better pulse of the way many areas lean and think these days.

What part of thy will still vote demo did you miss? They are trained and lead like sheep to vote that way. That will be hard pressed to change until many die off.

thats not the reason you delusional, transparent, disingenuous lying scumbag
- THE BLACK HAND

Awwww, is the little boy's panties in a bunch again. Please answer me one question before I depart for the day(yeah, I have a life). Why do you keep engaging me on here? I don't like you and you don't like me. The problem for you is that I end up eating you alive cause you have the wit of a Jane Whither's chaser. I've talked to cadavers that are more interesting than you. Buh Bye loser. You have to be the dumbest phuck that I've ever had the displeasure to talk to on social media and that absolutely boggles the mind. Oh, thanks again!

Gostisbehere was not a disaster on the Flyers top pairing. He and Provorov actually played well together. Again, you don't seem to understand that DeAngelo is not superior to Gostisbehere on the PP.
- MJL

Provorov and Ghost clicked in 2017-18, at least during the regular season. One of the two best seasons of Provorov's career to date (and he was a 2nd year NHLer at the time) and arguably Gostisbehere's best NHL season even though his rookie year had gaudier offensive stats relative to GP. Ghost struggled in the playoff series against the Penguins and Provorov had the shoulder separation in Game 5 but played through it.

Ghost got off to a terrible start in 2018-19; by his own admission. The pairing was split up. Ghost them dealt with several injuries and only sporadic effectiveness pretty much for the remainder of his career in Philadelphia.

AV/Yeo put Provorov and Ghost back together again for awhile in 2020-21. First couple weeks went fine then the pairing struggled again (along with Ghost again dealing with knee issues).

If DeAngelo is put with Provorov -- that seems to be the default right now -- they'll have to hope for similar chemistry to what Provorov-Ghost had in 2017-18. BTW, while Ghost has intensity about him, DeAngelo is off-the-charts intense and Provorov is also quite demanding on his defense partners. That could be an interesting dynamic.