Provorov and Ghost clicked in 2017-18, at least during the regular season. One of the two best seasons of Provorov's career to date (and he was a 2nd year NHLer at the time) and arguably Gostisbehere's best NHL season even though his rookie year had gaudier offensive stats relative to GP. Ghost struggled in the playoff series against the Penguins and Provorov had the shoulder separation in Game 5 but played through it.

Ghost got off to a terrible start in 2018-19; by his own admission. The pairing was split up. Ghost them dealt with several injuries and only sporadic effectiveness pretty much for the remainder of his career in Philadelphia.

AV/Yeo put Provorov and Ghost back together again for awhile in 2020-21. First couple weeks went fine then the pairing struggled again (along with Ghost again dealing with knee issues).

If DeAngelo is put with Provorov -- that seems to be the default right now -- they'll have to hope for similar chemistry to what Provorov-Ghost had in 2017-18. BTW, while Ghost has intensity about him, DeAngelo is off-the-charts intense and Provorov is also quite demanding on his defense partners. That could be an interesting dynamic.
- bmeltzer

Isn't Ivan best when he is leading the rush. Being more offensive? So to me that pair would not help either one that much and it may neutralize them to an extent.

There are no ideal pairs imo , excluding Ellis. Re-signing RR was such a terrible mistake.

Provorov and Ghost clicked in 2017-18, at least during the regular season. One of the two best seasons of Provorov's career to date (and he was a 2nd year NHLer at the time) and arguably Gostisbehere's best NHL season even though his rookie year had gaudier offensive stats relative to GP. Ghost struggled in the playoff series against the Penguins and Provorov had the shoulder separation in Game 5 but played through it.

Ghost got off to a terrible start in 2018-19; by his own admission. The pairing was split up. Ghost them dealt with several injuries and only sporadic effectiveness pretty much for the remainder of his career in Philadelphia.

AV/Yeo put Provorov and Ghost back together again for awhile in 2020-21. First couple weeks went fine then the pairing struggled again (along with Ghost again dealing with knee issues).

If DeAngelo is put with Provorov -- that seems to be the default right now -- they'll have to hope for similar chemistry to what Provorov-Ghost had in 2017-18. BTW, while Ghost has intensity about him, DeAngelo is off-the-charts intense and Provorov is also quite demanding on his defense partners. That could be an interesting dynamic.
- bmeltzer

The biggest issue to me is how is the pairing used. The pairing could definitely work if used in the right deployment. DeAngelo is a fine offensive defenseman who is aggressive offensively. In my opinion, one of Provorov's best attributes is his ability to attack and fill lanes in the offensive zone. He led all NHL defenseman in goal scoring one season. So how are they going to use them? If Provorov and DeAngelo are heavy in D zone starts, then I think that will limit their effectiveness. The issue if they don't then what pairing will take the bulk of D zone starts? Not an ideal mix not to mention the Flyers in the last few years have been a poor possession team and spend too much time defending.

Not reading back. There are no chants that are even worth while to talk about. Philly is schitt hole. Future is bleak.

Unlike you I hob knob with the lower class. Unlike you I have a much better pulse of the way many areas lean and think these days.

What part of thy will still vote demo did you miss? They are trained and lead like sheep to vote that way. That will be hard pressed to change until many die off.
- hello it's me 2050

No, you hobnob with the lower middle classes, economically speaking. Who romanticize their diminished lot in life as being equivalent to that of the actual lower classes, about whom they really don't have much of a clue.

As far as your thesis goes, if I understand correctly, Philly voters are sheep, who are now opening their eyes and turning the tide, except that they aren't.

I will leave it at that. I was talking about the Flyers really, not politics. If people were shouting a bunch of anarchist slogans at games, I would have said the same thing.

No, you hobnob with the lower middle classes, economically speaking. Who romanticize their diminished lot in life as being equivalent to that of the actual lower classes, about whom they really don't have much of a clue.

As far as your thesis goes, if I understand correctly, Philly voters are sheep, who are now opening their eyes and turning the tide, except that they aren't.

I will leave it at that. I was talking about the Flyers really, not politics. If people were shouting a bunch of anarchist slogans at games, I would have said the same thing.
- PT21

entertaining post. Yes I romanticize my diminished lot in life being equal to the lower class.

Also what are people like myself? Can you describe those people? 

except they are holmes. You are not out in any of the neighborhoods. You do not hang out in diff parts of the city. I will also guess you have very little contact with the unions or people who have high roles within the unions. You have very little clue on how the people feel about the dems in this city in 2022. Wont happen over night.

So basically the Flyers now have almost 30 million in cap space invested into their defensive corp and they have the same, if not more, question marks.



Why do I hate the TDA trade?

Now I have to read this rehashed running around in circles arguing discussing from the same people for months or maybe years now about DeAngelo.

No, I did not say that fraction will grow. It does not need to.

Philly is an overwhelmingly Democrat, and overwhelmingly multiracial town. Most fans who come to Flyers games are white, and now apparently, persistently vocal in expressing opinions that are minority opinions in the city. Neither the composition nor the opinions are ones you see/hear in other sporting events. In other words, they are already a small segment of the fan base in the city. Which is aging.

Then there is the fact that those 'opinions' are being chanted at events which have nothing to do with politics, and not just once. If the reputation comes up that Flyers games are places where you encounter such boorish behavior, it will start to be seen as a place where some families will not go, irrespective of which way they lean. Just like many families didn't take their kids to the Vet.

I am putting together a hypothesis. There have been many losing streaks in the city of teams, and many tough times. I am not aware of such behavior.

I pretty much said the same thing I did last time. I am not sure what 'data' you need, but I tried.

- PT21

So most fans coming are expressing opinions not shared by the locals, you reference Democrats, you infer the fans attending are not by and large Democrats or independents or center Republicans? Any data to back this up, news stories, breakdown of fans issues as it relates to fan attendance? Any verifiable trend? Putting political aside, can you provide some detail on how you have collected/made assumptions what views the households hold, in the area around the rink and how you collected/assumed the views from the folks attending the games?

I think the vast majority are coming to watch a sporting event, root or complain about their team, sure some go over the line and some have views that are not acceptable. Who and what determines that line is another story. You are welcome to your opinion as all are, but my opinion is the folks going to games, the vast majority are very similar to this board. They want to watch the game, they don't want to listen to few individuals who want to express their political/personal opinion, most don't want to listen to people who think they are smarter than everyone else and lack the intelligence to know when and what to share in the proper setting. I am all for the Flyers rooting out those individuals.

The NHL is making a big push for diversity, you can see it in the adds they have out, that is a good thing. From an international standpoint the league is diverse already, encouraging all cultures from North America to love hockey is awesome, it will take time but all well run business knows, if you have a plan and stick with it, you will attract what you intended...

Unless they ask for the political affiliation card at the door




Unfortunately they also attract a small portion of Knuckleheads.

So basically the Flyers now have almost 30 million in cap space invested into their defensive corp and they have the same, if not more, question marks.



Why do I hate the TDA trade?

Now I have to read this rehashed running around in circles arguing discussing from the same people for months or maybe years now about DeAngelo.


- Glak18

How do they have more question marks on D?

No, I did not say that fraction will grow. It does not need to.

Philly is an overwhelmingly Democrat, and overwhelmingly multiracial town. Most fans who come to Flyers games are white, and now apparently, persistently vocal in expressing opinions that are minority opinions in the city. Neither the composition nor the opinions are ones you see/hear in other sporting events. In other words, they are already a small segment of the fan base in the city. Which is aging.

Then there is the fact that those 'opinions' are being chanted at events which have nothing to do with politics, and not just once. If the reputation comes up that Flyers games are places where you encounter such boorish behavior, it will start to be seen as a place where some families will not go, irrespective of which way they lean. Just like many families didn't take their kids to the Vet.

I am putting together a hypothesis. There have been many losing streaks in the city of teams, and many tough times. I am not aware of such behavior.

I pretty much said the same thing I did last time. I am not sure what 'data' you need, but I tried.

- PT21

As are the fans who attend the sixers, eagles, and phils games as well. What is your point?

The biggest issue to me is how is the pairing used. The pairing could definitely work if used in the right deployment. DeAngelo is a fine offensive defenseman who is aggressive offensively. In my opinion, one of Provorov's best attributes is his ability to attack and fill lanes in the offensive zone. He led all NHL defenseman in goal scoring one season. So how are they going to use them? If Provorov and DeAngelo are heavy in D zone starts, then I think that will limit their effectiveness. The issue if they don't then what pairing will take the bulk of D zone starts? Not an ideal mix not to mention the Flyers in the last few years have been a poor possession team and spend too much time defending.
- MJL

I agree with a lot both of you are saying, it also matters who they are playing against and what 3 O are with them. Assume tough starts in the D zone will be accompanied by the Coots line, then you probably have AD is the closest scenario that resembles Carolina. Matchups and coaching will be a big ingredient in how this all works out.

Preds ink Forsberg 8 X ?

entertaining post. Yes I romanticize my diminished lot in life being equal to the lower class.

Also what are people like myself? Can you describe those people? 

except they are holmes. You are not out in any of the neighborhoods. You do not hang out in diff parts of the city. I will also guess you have very little contact with the unions or people who have high roles within the unions. You have very little clue on how the people feel about the dems in this city in 2022. Wont happen over night.
- hello it's me 2050

And you would be wrong Holmes. As you are about pretty much everything outside of hockey.

At 17th and Johnson there is a rec center. Ever been there, Holmes? The name of the guy who runs it is Anthony.

You know what Anthony is thinking of doing, Holmes? He is thinking of taking his beaten tennis courts and adding Pickleball lines. Pickleball, in that neighborhood! And do you know why the city is putting so much money into FDR park, right across from where the Flyers play?

Why do I bring these two things up? Because they are related to what I was saying. Am I gonna explain? Nah.

Now go find someone else to fight with about things they haven't said but which you think they imply. I myself am off to the Union League to enjoy my Saturday foie gras, Holmes.

A lot is going to depend on DeAngelo's deployment and usage. He's definitely a good offensive defenseman who will add to the Flyers in a few areas. However there is a reason why Carolina declined to pay him what his market value is. That's because he is only effective on one side of the puck. Carolina was able to hide his deficiencies with their team play. Can the Flyers? As Tomahawk pointed out, if the right side of the Flyers defense is DeAngelo, Ristolainen, and Attard. That spells big trouble defensively. I don't care about the past incidents. It seems as though he has moved past that and matured. We'll see about that. I care more about the blatant mis-management and continually giving away future assets in an attempt to win now.
- MJL

He is not good defensively and never will be. He is better than Ghost though and competes 100% harder...If thats the right side of their D its about the worst in the NHL...Attard is nowhere close to an NHL defenseman at this point

Provorov and Ghost clicked in 2017-18, at least during the regular season. One of the two best seasons of Provorov's career to date (and he was a 2nd year NHLer at the time) and arguably Gostisbehere's best NHL season even though his rookie year had gaudier offensive stats relative to GP. Ghost struggled in the playoff series against the Penguins and Provorov had the shoulder separation in Game 5 but played through it.

Ghost got off to a terrible start in 2018-19; by his own admission. The pairing was split up. Ghost them dealt with several injuries and only sporadic effectiveness pretty much for the remainder of his career in Philadelphia.

AV/Yeo put Provorov and Ghost back together again for awhile in 2020-21. First couple weeks went fine then the pairing struggled again (along with Ghost again dealing with knee issues).

If DeAngelo is put with Provorov -- that seems to be the default right now -- they'll have to hope for similar chemistry to what Provorov-Ghost had in 2017-18. BTW, while Ghost has intensity about him, DeAngelo is off-the-charts intense and Provorov is also quite demanding on his defense partners. That could be an interesting dynamic.
- bmeltzer

In No world is Tony D a 1st pairing guy. All the talk about Provy needing a guy to lien on in order to be effective well Tony D isnt that type of guy. It really isnt going to matter as this team will be a bottom 10 team easily next year and Tony was brought in here for his entertainment value . Tony will bring some must needed life to the locker room and on the ice but he will explode when this team continues to lose

So most fans coming are expressing opinions not shared by the locals, you reference Democrats, you infer the fans attending are not by and large Democrats or independents or center Republicans? Any data to back this up, news stories, breakdown of fans issues as it relates to fan attendance? Any verifiable trend? Putting political aside, can you provide some detail on how you have collected/made assumptions what views the households hold, in the area around the rink and how you collected/assumed the views from the folks attending the games?

I think the vast majority are coming to watch a sporting event, root or complain about their team, sure some go over the line and some have views that are not acceptable. Who and what determines that line is another story. You are welcome to your opinion as all are, but my opinion is the folks going to games, the vast majority are very similar to this board. They want to watch the game, they don't want to listen to few individuals who want to express their political/personal opinion, most don't want to listen to people who think they are smarter than everyone else and lack the intelligence to know when and what to share in the proper setting. I am all for the Flyers rooting out those individuals.

The NHL is making a big push for diversity, you can see it in the adds they have out, that is a good thing. From an international standpoint the league is diverse already, encouraging all cultures from North America to love hockey is awesome, it will take time but all well run business knows, if you have a plan and stick with it, you will attract what you intended...

Unless they ask for the political affiliation card at the door




Unfortunately they also attract a small portion of Knuckleheads.
- wcorvette

1. No, I do not infer that. I infer they are less politically representative of the city than the random sample of other sports fans in the city.

2. I have already mentioned this 'data' 3 times. I am not claiming to have enough data to put money on it. Hence my explicit earlier use of the word "hypothesis"

3. True, and that is part of the problem for the longevity and sustenance of this franchise in the city.

Now, if you don't mind, I can only repeat the exact same answer to the exact same set of questions only a finite # of times, so I will exit this sub-thread.

He is not good defensively and never will be. He is better than Ghost though and competes 100% harder...If thats the right side of their D its about the worst in the NHL...Attard is nowhere close to an NHL defenseman at this point
- hfc355

I am kind of looking forward to this season in the same way I used to look forward to the Wing Bowl when I was young.

Any chance TAD and Provy get into a fight over Ukraine?

1. No, I do not infer that. I infer they are less politically representative of the city than the random sample of other sports fans in the city.

2. I have already mentioned this 'data' 3 times. I am not claiming to have enough data to put money on it. Hence my explicit earlier use of the word "hypothesis"

3. True, and that is part of the problem for the longevity and sustenance of this franchise in the city.

Now, if you don't mind, I can only repeat the exact same answer to the exact same set of questions only a finite # of times, so I will exit this sub-thread.
- PT21

agree, pretty much a waste of time from the initial post, enjoy the weekend.

And you would be wrong Holmes. As you are about pretty much everything outside of hockey.

At 17th and Johnson there is a rec center. Ever been there, Holmes? The name of the guy who runs it is Anthony.

You know what Anthony is thinking of doing, Holmes? He is thinking of taking his beaten tennis courts and adding Pickleball lines. Pickleball, in that neighborhood! And do you know why the city is putting so much money into FDR park, right across from where the Flyers play?

Why do I bring these two things up? Because they are related to what I was saying. Am I gonna explain? Nah.

Now go find someone else to fight with about things they haven't said but which you think they imply. I myself am off to the Union League to enjoy my Saturday foie gras, Holmes.
- PT21

Who is fighting? You wearing your new balance sneaks and khakis to the game.

Pickleball not surprised.

Also what are people like myself? Can you describe those people? Please answer.

In No world is Tony D a 1st pairing guy. All the talk about Provy needing a guy to lien on in order to be effective well Tony D isnt that type of guy. It really isnt going to matter as this team will be a bottom 10 team easily next year and Tony was brought in here for his entertainment value . Tony will bring some must needed life to the locker room and on the ice but he will explode when this team continues to lose
- hfc355

Did I miss the part where the NHL put a ban on making moves for the rest of the off-season?!?!?

1. No, I do not infer that. I infer they are less politically representative of the city than the random sample of other sports fans in the city.

2. I have already mentioned this 'data' 3 times. I am not claiming to have enough data to put money on it. Hence my explicit earlier use of the word "hypothesis"

3. True, and that is part of the problem for the longevity and sustenance of this franchise in the city.

Now, if you don't mind, I can only repeat the exact same answer to the exact same set of questions only a finite # of times, so I will exit this sub-thread.
- PT21

1. That is total crock of schitt.

He is not good defensively and never will be. He is better than Ghost though and competes 100% harder...If thats the right side of their D its about the worst in the NHL...Attard is nowhere close to an NHL defenseman at this point
- hfc355

DeAngelo is not better defensively than Gostisbehere in my opinion. I
Give the edge to Gostisbehere there. Although I have seen a lot more of the latter player. They are extremely similar as players.

Some of the best posts are the ones you don’t make, just saying

DeAngelo is not better defensively than Gostisbehere in my opinion. I
Give the edge to Gostisbehere there. Although I have seen a lot more of the latter player. They are extremely similar as players.
- MJL

DeAngelo is not better defensively than Gostisbehere in my opinion. I
Give the edge.to Gostisbehere there. Although I have seen a lot more of the latter player. They are extremely similar as players.
- MJL

I will take the attitude and compete level TOny D brings to the game over Ghost every day.

Now, if you don't mind, I can only repeat the exact same answer to the exact same set of questions only a finite # of times, so I will exit this sub-thread.
- PT21

In other words, it is beneath you to converse with the riff raff and sub standard humans.

Some of the best posts are the ones you don’t make, just saying
- wcorvette

Kudos to you for doing an excellent job and clandestinely bringing out the truth and exposing. If you give enough rope............