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Forums :: Blog World :: Kevin Francis: Sens/Yotes talking trade options - Chychrun/Crouse/Formenton/Zaitsev
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CooCooKaChoo
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 01.15.2008

Aug 17 @ 3:20 PM ET
The Sens need to hold onto those first round picks because they're going to need them to get rid of DeBrincat who will be much harder to move than Zaitsev. If you can't see that now don't worry; the light should start to come on around trade deadline time.

Some of course will never see it. They're already starting to talk about playing hardball with Stutzle and Sanderson and Pinto. If Sanderson and his ELC and top D potential need to go because you've brought in a good top 4D like Chychrun and so can't afford to keep what will probably be the much better D, Sanderson, because you're stuck with the cap hit of the wee little person, who no other team will touch, than so be it they'll proudly say. You made your team better for one year so who gives a damn what happens after that.

Same goes with Stutzle they'll say, if he wants to be paid what he'll more than likely be worth when the time comes round for his contract and they can't do it because no one will take the wee little person and his cap hit off their hands. Begone, Timmy, they'll say.

Maybe the Sens get lucky and really good players agree to play for peanuts for a year or two until the Sens can have walked away from the wee little person for nothing while the salary cap gets a bump, but I'm not optimistic. Getting DsBrincat will inevitably cost the Sens greatly in the not too distant future. Hopefully it doesn't get turned into a complete debacle that ruins any hope for a Cup down the road.

On the bright side I was listening to the boys at TSN yesterday and some of them are saying they wouldn't even consider trading Greig straight up for Chychrun because they think he's that good. Some are saying that not only will he be a top 6 player but that three years down the road he'll be one of the best players on the team. They're saying that the first round draft of Stutzle, Sanderso and Greig will go down as the best draft by a team in NHL history. Gotta love it. Kind of boggles the mind that there are those who think it's perfectly reasonable to sacrifice a couple of those guys for Chychrun and a wee little person and his pot of gold.

- Whatisavailable


I feel like you define a player based solely on their height. Certainly a factor, but not the only one.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 17 @ 4:33 PM ET
Plain and simple: Ottawa Senators need a Top 4 right shot D-man that can be excellent in his own end and play with Chabot and or Sanderson. Thoughts on who that can be?

I though Brent Burns was an EXCELLENT option. Why didn't we get him? I know he's old but he's got 2-3 years still and was top with Chabot and Seth Jones in ice time
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Aug 17 @ 4:54 PM ET
Plain and simple: Ottawa Senators need a Top 4 right shot D-man that can be excellent in his own end and play with Chabot and or Sanderson. Thoughts on who that can be?

I though Brent Burns was an EXCELLENT option. Why didn't we get him? I know he's old but he's got 2-3 years still and was top with Chabot and Seth Jones in ice time

- AlfieisKing

I remember thinking the same thing but maybe Burns wouldn't have wanted to go to Ottawa. No way to know. I don't think Chychrun would mesh well with Chabot who needs to play with a solid stay at home type like Zub. The same may end up being true of Sanderson.

I don't have any desperate need for the Sens to make the playoffs this year. Too many unknowns starting with the coach, new guys coming into the lineup and maybe a couple of rookies on the blue line. I think they'll do well but I am ready for another crack at the lottery.
AlfieisKing
Ottawa Senators
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 11.05.2007

Aug 17 @ 5:50 PM ET
I remember thinking the same thing but maybe Burns wouldn't have wanted to go to Ottawa. No way to know. I don't think Chychrun would mesh well with Chabot who needs to play with a solid stay at home type like Zub. The same may end up being true of Sanderson.

I don't have any desperate need for the Sens to make the playoffs this year. Too many unknowns starting with the coach, new guys coming into the lineup and maybe a couple of rookies on the blue line. I think they'll do well but I am ready for another crack at the lottery.

- Whatisavailable


whoa whoa whoa

I was with you but to think they will be a lottery team after adding Claude Giroux, Alex DeBrincat, Cam Talbot and moving out all that dead cap - that's not right at all man. This team WILL NOT solve their D-man problem with a lottery pick, they need to make a trade or develop the crap out of Thomson and/or JBD
david22
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 04.15.2008

Aug 17 @ 6:00 PM ET
Plain and simple: Ottawa Senators need a Top 4 right shot D-man that can be excellent in his own end and play with Chabot and or Sanderson. Thoughts on who that can be?

I though Brent Burns was an EXCELLENT option. Why didn't we get him? I know he's old but he's got 2-3 years still and was top with Chabot and Seth Jones in ice time

- AlfieisKing


Good question. Who is left that is available for trade?
david22
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 04.15.2008

Aug 17 @ 6:34 PM ET
whoa whoa whoa

I was with you but to think they will be a lottery team after adding Claude Giroux, Alex DeBrincat, Cam Talbot and moving out all that dead cap - that's not right at all man. This team WILL NOT solve their D-man problem with a lottery pick, they need to make a trade or develop the crap out of Thomson and/or JBD

- AlfieisKing



Speaking of developing D-men, are we at the point where we write off Brannstrom completely?

He's "only" 23 but we are getting to that stage where players are exactly who they show you they are.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Aug 17 @ 6:40 PM ET
whoa whoa whoa

I was with you but to think they will be a lottery team after adding Claude Giroux, Alex DeBrincat, Cam Talbot and moving out all that dead cap - that's not right at all man. This team WILL NOT solve their D-man problem with a lottery pick, they need to make a trade or develop the crap out of Thomson and/or JBD

- AlfieisKing

I never said they would solve their D through the lottery. I said there are too many unknowns to be certain that they would be a playoff team this year. Even if they bring in Chychrun he may not work well with either Chabot or Sanderson . No one can know this. Will Sanderson step right in and be able to handle top 4 minutes? How is his hand? How will Pinto do? What's going to happen with Formenton and potentially Batherson as well? Will Zaitsev be gone or will he be playing top 4 minutes? Will Giroux and DeBrincat click immediately with their new line mates or will it take a little time? Then there's the elephant in the room. How will Smith handle this team? No one knows of course but I don't think anyone could fault me for having my doubts about his ability as a head coach in the NHL. You see there are plenty of unknowns so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they miss the playoffs. If they do they should at least have top five protected their first for next year and we better know what we have in Thomson and JBD.
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Aug 17 @ 6:45 PM ET
I never said they would solve their D through the lottery. I said there are too many unknowns to be certain that they would be a playoff team this year. Even if they bring in Chychrun he may not work well with either Chabot or Sanderson . No one can know this. Will Sanderson step right in and be able to handle top 4 minutes? How is his hand? How will Pinto do? What's going to happen with Formenton and potentially Batherson as well? Will Zaitsev be gone or will he be playing top 4 minutes? Will Giroux and DeBrincat click immediately with their new line mates or will it take a little time? Then there's the elephant in the room. How will Smith handle this team? No one knows of course but I don't think anyone could fault me for having my doubts about his ability as a head coach in the NHL. You see there are plenty of unknowns so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they miss the playoffs. If they do they should at least have top five protected their first for next year and we better know what we have in Thomson and JBD.
- Whatisavailable


If the Sens followed your plan Chabot would need another contract before they are ready to compete. You can't rebuild forever.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 17 @ 7:14 PM ET
If the Sens followed your plan Chabot would need another contract before they are ready to compete. You can't rebuild forever.
- HoweHatrick



I think you have it right. You need to try and build your contending team around your young players. Two factors that have significantly changed the way teams set up to compete:

Top 6 players on contending teams earn upwards of 65% of the team's total cap.

Teams are locking in their elite players to long term deals upon the completion of their entry level contracts. Older guys becoming UFAs will not get big dollar long term deals (31 year old Kadri struggling to get a big payday is the future).

Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

Aug 17 @ 8:01 PM ET
I never said they would solve their D through the lottery. I said there are too many unknowns to be certain that they would be a playoff team this year. Even if they bring in Chychrun he may not work well with either Chabot or Sanderson . No one can know this. Will Sanderson step right in and be able to handle top 4 minutes? How is his hand? How will Pinto do? What's going to happen with Formenton and potentially Batherson as well? Will Zaitsev be gone or will he be playing top 4 minutes? Will Giroux and DeBrincat click immediately with their new line mates or will it take a little time? Then there's the elephant in the room. How will Smith handle this team? No one knows of course but I don't think anyone could fault me for having my doubts about his ability as a head coach in the NHL. You see there are plenty of unknowns so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they miss the playoffs. If they do they should at least have top five protected their first for next year and we better know what we have in Thomson and JBD.
- Whatisavailable

There are no guarantees in the NHL. All your questions are warranted. However, to prefer the option that has the word "lottery" in it, isn't exactly a guarantee or preferable option.

It's not hard to assume that teams like Chicago, Montreal, Arizona, Buffalo, and Seattle may have the bottom 5 locked up. Then you have teams like New Jersey, Long Island, Detroit, Anaheim, Columbus, and Philadelphia. Teams that could either dive or be middling in the standings but likely not make the playoffs. I'd argue right now that Ottawa is better off than these teams, even with a rough season and some injuries came into play. Those are tough lottery odds to score a guy like Bedard.

Then you have the argument of just embracing a losing culture rather than transitioning to try and win which is just as problematic. When you have guys like Chabot, Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson, and Giroux locked in with big contracts and young players like Stu and Sanderson coming down the pike, being a rebuilding team is a pretty tough sell.
HoweHatrick
Joined: 01.02.2014

Aug 17 @ 8:37 PM ET
Those are tough lottery odds to score a guy like Bedard.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0


Bedard? We can't have a "little fellow" like Bedard on the Sens. Whatisavailable would blow a gasket with two "little guys" on the team.
RyeDog13
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 05.03.2018

Aug 17 @ 9:15 PM ET
Well f*** just tuned into the world juniors game and Ridley Greig has an apparant shoulder injury from a hit in the first, havent seen the hit but he didnt come back......
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Aug 17 @ 10:38 PM ET
Greig was chasing the puck along the boards coming out of his zone into the neutral zone and got hit. I don't know if he expected to be hit because he was nowhere near the puck. Should have been an interference penalty. He reacted immediately and left the ice. Didn't look good.

Canada was not prepared for this game or at least didn't look it. Maybe they needed a little humility before moving on. Johnson looks good again and has been one of Canada's best players. Zellweger has also been very good every game.

Very satisfying to see US knocked off by the Czechs. Those US teams are like the American version of Toronto when in comes to arrogance.
Octavarium
New York Islanders
Joined: 01.03.2007

Aug 18 @ 8:01 AM ET
Looks like a blown shoulder.
Not that big of a deal. He would have gotten one eventually with this coach.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 18 @ 8:44 AM ET
If Vegas offered Mark Stone for Erik Brannstrom....would you be interested?
TDBSenatoR
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 09.28.2018

Aug 18 @ 10:36 AM ET
If Vegas offered Mark Stone for Erik Brannstrom....would you be interested?
- spatso


If we did that and got Vegas to retain 1 mil in salary would that be an even bigger troll than the Max Pacioretty deal?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 18 @ 11:07 AM ET
If we did that and got Vegas to retain 1 mil in salary would that be an even bigger troll than the Max Pacioretty deal?
- TDBSenatoR


Funny, I was just looking at some of the teams that were in cap trouble and Vegas was the worst. Wondered how they are going to be able to get beyond this mess.

How quickly things change. I don't think Ottawa would have any interest in Mark Stone at this time due to the remaining years left on his contract.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 18 @ 12:10 PM ET
TSN this morning.

“No update. Got banged up there and we kept him out, so I’ll talk to the doctors here after we get a day off [Thursday], and we’ll go from there,” Cameron said on Wednesday, while also referring to Greig as the team’s best player.
“Any time to you take your best player out of the lineup, it affects you in all situations … but some other guys came in there and stepped up and hopefully we get Ridly back,” said Cameron.
spazzbot
Location: Maple Zombie
Joined: 02.14.2013

Aug 18 @ 12:32 PM ET
Now is the time to cash in another 1st or 2 if. Need be and get a top 4D. The sens are in a position where they can afford to soften that cost, with the current pipeline. It would be easier manageable now then later spending those 1st's
Plus you dont get guys like debrincat and giroux to not make a serious run at the playoffs.
Chychrun seems like a good choice currently capwise,good player,local guy , but who knows who could be made available if there is multiple 1st picks on the table.

Better to get this done now and have the roster settled for training camp
david22
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 04.15.2008

Aug 18 @ 12:54 PM ET
Kadri to Calgary. Looks like we can cross off Weegar from our list of potential RHD.

Calgary will look very different this year. That team can do some damage.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Aug 18 @ 1:37 PM ET
Kadri to Calgary. Looks like we can cross off Weegar from our list of potential RHD.

Calgary will look very different this year. That team can do some damage.

- david22


Kadri and Huberdeau vs Tkachuk and Gaudreau. Interesting.

Add in Weeger and Calgary is probably a better team than last year and they were a very good team last year.
Gord_Wilson_2.0
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 10.11.2011

Aug 18 @ 1:40 PM ET
Funny, I was just looking at some of the teams that were in cap trouble and Vegas was the worst. Wondered how they are going to be able to get beyond this mess.

How quickly things change. I don't think Ottawa would have any interest in Mark Stone at this time due to the remaining years left on his contract.

- spatso

Still having Stone would likely have prevented any Giroux signings. However, things are hindsight considerations. Stone, Karlsson, Duchene, etc primes were while in Ottawa and its too bad it didn’t work out and they were not insulated more to make more legitimate runs after 2017 which was not expected.

This does prove as an example to not make similar mistakes with the current roster. Should the defense not get the insolation it needs, it might be a bumpy ride. The organization will also need to get creative in cap management rather than trading players in their prime.
Bartacus
Ottawa Senators
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 01.08.2019

Aug 18 @ 2:00 PM ET
Good question. Who is left that is available for trade?
- david22


Calgary has 9 D men signed to 1 way deals, you have to imagine when Tre signed Meloche to a one way in July that the intent was to use him in the big league. They could make a move but the Monahan trade I believes puts them in the clear, so maybe not. Our coach likes his handedness sorted on the blue line, so the prospect of picking up Chychrun in the hopes he gets played offside is dubious, especially with Zaitsev still floating around. Still think the logical landing spot for NZ is Chicago - they are very weak on RD after Jones and are clearly trying to tank, which makes Zaitsev a valuable asset.
Whatisavailable
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 08.20.2021

Aug 18 @ 3:48 PM ET
There seems to be a consensus among hockey people that Chabot needs a solid, stay at home defensive partner to play the right side. So what a good idea it would be to go out and spend valuable assets on a left shot LD offensive defenseman who is weak defensively to partner with Chabot.

Who cares about these silly details? If Chychrun doesn't pan out with Chabot then just play Chychrun with Sanderson like that will work out well. Or just bump Sanderson to the 3rd pairing and play Chychrun as your number 2 LD. This would be an immediate short term improvement at LD but it makes Sanderson your 3rd pairing LD for 3 years unless he's good enough to play the right side as a number 1 or 2 RD and turns into a solid, stay at home defenseman.

Then a solid, stay at home RD like JBD just becomes a trading chip after drafting and developing him for years. Thomson becomes a trading chip after drafting and developing him for years. No no no! Chychrun is better right now and if we don't get Chychrun the world will end. The famous window will close. Ever since people learned the word "WINDOW" there's been no end to it.

And all of this passes for a winning strategy for some people! Un friggin believable.

Play your young D for god's sake. Even with Chychrun the Sens are not making the playoffs. DeBrincat is not leading them to the promised land. Giroux was a good signing. All this other stuff is just pissing away assets and hurting the team's chances in the future. I don't care if they get Chychrun. Get the friggin guy so I don't have to listen to that nonsense anymore. Two firsts with the 2023 top ten protected is way more than enough but they better be unloading Zaitsev into the bargain. Chychrun and his great contract is still available because Arizona has a fish on the hook called Dorion who just might pay their ridiculous ask. I know a bunch of people on this thread would.

Play those young D.
Zuuuuuuuuuuuuuub
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 10.28.2021

Aug 18 @ 4:05 PM ET
I never said they would solve their D through the lottery. I said there are too many unknowns to be certain that they would be a playoff team this year. Even if they bring in Chychrun he may not work well with either Chabot or Sanderson . No one can know this. Will Sanderson step right in and be able to handle top 4 minutes? How is his hand? How will Pinto do? What's going to happen with Formenton and potentially Batherson as well? Will Zaitsev be gone or will he be playing top 4 minutes? Will Giroux and DeBrincat click immediately with their new line mates or will it take a little time? Then there's the elephant in the room. How will Smith handle this team? No one knows of course but I don't think anyone could fault me for having my doubts about his ability as a head coach in the NHL. You see there are plenty of unknowns so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they miss the playoffs. If they do they should at least have top five protected their first for next year and we better know what we have in Thomson and JBD.
- Whatisavailable



I'm just asking questions, here. Asking questions with implied answers by you (in order of your lines of inquiry: No, Likely not fully healed, Badder than we are assuming, contracts terminated, top 4 minutes, No, and not up to my expectations) is leading and just as speculative as anyone else's half butted guesses on this forum for how things will go. Maybe they also start the season 10-1. Maybe Chabot gets Norris consideration, maybe Brannstrom turns out to be a 55 pt defenceman finally. Maybe Sanderson is a Calder finalist. Maybe Stutzle playing with actually talented wingers makes him an Art Ross candidate. Maybe Pinto gets nominated for Selke and Forsberg the Vezina. Maybe we eliminate the Maple Leafs from playoff contention in the last game of the regular season blowing 7 goals past Murray and Marner throwing a temper tamtrum as he quits on the team. Maybe Norris scores 50. Maybe we convince CGY to give us Rasmus Andersson to get back under the cap. Maybe we also sign PK Subban and go in with one of the better D corps in the Eastern conference. See???? positive thinking can be just as interesting too!

Dorion better be scoping out the D prices in CGY right now, then need to move more and only risk is Treliving is now gained yardage on the GM of the year discussion. Right now it would have to be (top 5):

1. Trellving
2. Dorion
3. Yzerman
4. Waddell
5. Kekelainen
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