The serious World Juniors allegations where Formenton could be involved may be holding things up. Otherwise he'd be a great piece to add to such a trade, but its undertandable that another team wouldn't want him in a trade until it is resolved.
- david22

Still worries me what may become of Batherson. Would be impossible to replace quickly or at all for this team should he not be permitted to play. 5 mil per year cap hit for an elite forward like that is a steal of a contract.

I remember this as well. I'm surprised he hasn't done so already if that is the case. They have the extra 2nd from Washington, I'd say get the deal done right away if they could.

Maybe the deal fell through, because people were saying it could be a first for the Coyotes to take Zaitsev.
- david22

The way I heard it....was that. IF you move Zaitsev then you HAVE to make that deal to get Chycrun (giving AZ more leverage). If you are Dorion and you still have Zaitsev....then you're posturing and saying "well...we are willing to play him and use the kids and see how it goes".
Without Z "you're saying...crap we need to get another NHL body in here"

The way I heard it....was that. IF you move Zaitsev then you HAVE to make that deal to get Chycrun (giving AZ more leverage). If you are Dorion and you still have Zaitsev....then you're posturing and saying "well...we are willing to play him and use the kids and see how it goes".
Without Z "you're saying...crap we need to get another NHL body in here"
- Octavarium

But Ottawa doesn't HAVE to make a deal to get Chychrun if they move Zaitsev.
They got Chabot, Sanderson, Zub, Hamonic, Holden, Thompson, Bernard-Docker and Brannstrom under rights with only Brannstrom needing a contract for this season before they are all ready to go.
Chychrun would just allow another one of the prospects to be sent down to develop or possibly overbake a bit in the AHL, also help with injuries.
Chychrun isn't even the ideal Dman Ottawa needs right now they need more shutdown guys.

To whatever extent Dorion values getting Chychrun that is the extent he does not value Either Thompson or JBD as prospects as they will be who he is directly replacing, with possibly Brannstrom being thrown in as something extra because he doesn't really have big value anymore.

Dorion should just get rid of Zaitsev and sit back until earl-mid November to see what may need tinkering or if DJ just needs to be canned.

Dorion stated he intends to sign Brannstrom and Formenton before training camp. I'll believe it when I see it, they both seem like trade chips at the moment.

Agree that a righty shutdown D-man is likely a savvier move than Chychrun, given what we already have on our roster. Our left side is fast and offensive, our right side commensurate should be made up of responsible, if unspectacular players a la Zub. The asking price for JC is just too high. Find that RD man somewhere - Tanev (we might be on his NTC list) looks like he could be an option given Anderson and now Weegar will slot ahead of him, he's 32 and 4.5M for two more years is a lot to pay for someone who likely lines up as a third string D. Move Zaitsev out with a pick attached and sign a couple still unsigned depth UFA players to one year league mins (like De Haan - Carp boy - and Rask/Connolly for example). This team has made great strides this off-season but has not IMO adequately hedged against the possible outcomes of the WJC situation. You could play the wait and see, I suppose, but a low risk 1.5/one year for Kessel wouldn't have been a bad thing to have on this team, all things considered. The team has 7 open contract spots and precariously shaky forward depth, so I hope they leverage those open spots while keeping several open for possible waiver grabs.

The way I heard it....was that. IF you move Zaitsev then you HAVE to make that deal to get Chycrun (giving AZ more leverage). If you are Dorion and you still have Zaitsev....then you're posturing and saying "well...we are willing to play him and use the kids and see how it goes".
Without Z "you're saying...crap we need to get another NHL body in here"
- Octavarium

You have that backwards. If you make a deal for Chychrun and still have Zaitsev on the team (without a deal already done to move him) then teams will know they have to move him and can raise their price to take him. Zaitsev has no future with this team and that is clear to everyone so if they could have moved him or can move him, they should have done so already. If the Sens try to include him in a deal for Chychrun, that just means they have to add more on top of what they want for Chychrun to take him as a cap dump.

The price to dump Zaitsev is likely a 1st or a good prospect (maybe both) since he has 2 years remaining on his contract. It just cost the Flames a 1st to get rid of 1 year of Monahan. I don't think anyone will take Zaitsev for less than that which probably why he is still a Sens.

You have that backwards. If you make a deal for Chychrun and still have Zaitsev on the team (without a deal already done to move him) then teams will know they have to move him and can raise their price to take him. Zaitsev has no future with this team and that is clear to everyone so if they could have moved him or can move him, they should have done so already. If the Sens try to include him in a deal for Chychrun, that just means they have to add more on top of what they want for Chychrun to take him as a cap dump.

The price to dump Zaitsev is likely a 1st or a good prospect (maybe both) since he has 2 years remaining on his contract. It just cost the Flames a 1st to get rid of 1 year of Monahan. I don't think anyone will take Zaitsev for less than that which probably why he is still a Sens.
- dcz28

OTT does not need to get rid of Zeitsev even if they trade for Chych, they have the cap room for have both and can juts burry him the Belleville, the flames HAD to trade Monohan to get Kadri in, 2 different situations

I'm starting to really question the need for Chychrun. If they're serious about Sanderson being a #2D-quality player in the near future, and have Zub lined up for a $5M/yr extension to play a #3D role, then it just seems like an astronomical price for someone who doesn't even fit the team's ideal design. Plus, it's not like Zaitsev is some kind of dysfunctional pariah... among D-men he was 2nd in hits, 3rd in blocked shots, and 2nd in PK time. And despite the "elite shutdown" comments, over the last 2 seasons his TOI has been reduced from >22min/GP (2nd most) to <19min/GP (5th most). So they were already playing him as a #5/6 D-man with PK time, which is fine.

Meanwhile, Chychrun is coming off of a relatively underwhelming season. Even if you pro-rate his offensive production to 82GP we're talking about 37pts, which is actually the 2nd highest output he's had in 5 years of playing >20min/GP. He also had a catastrophic -20 in just 47GP, which put him on pace for the 3rd worst +/- in the entire NHL. I'm not suggesting he's not a good player but there's nothing elite about that performance, so I'm not convinced he's worth this supposed 3-first round pick equivalent price tag... especially if it includes Thomson vs. Brannstrom.

I would do a trade for Chychrun like this

2023 1st (top 3 protected)
2024 1st (top 10 protected)
Egor Sokolov
2023 2nd + Zeitsev/Brannstrom

I wanna keep JBD and Thomson
Maybe next year it will look like this
Chabot Zub
Chychrun Thomson
Sanderson JBD

Sokolov had his time just can’t cut it
2nd and Brannstrom for taking Zeitsev off our hand he will help them tank lol
- sens4life1971

I like your train of thought a lot, and I agree. My gut tells me Arizona will want 1 of Thomson or Bernard Docker

I'm starting to really question the need for Chychrun. If they're serious about Sanderson being a #2D-quality player in the near future, and have Zub lined up for a $5M/yr extension to play a #3D role, then it just seems like an astronomical price for someone who doesn't even fit the team's ideal design. Plus, it's not like Zaitsev is some kind of dysfunctional pariah... among D-men he was 2nd in hits, 3rd in blocked shots, and 2nd in PK time. And despite the "elite shutdown" comments, over the last 2 seasons his TOI has been reduced from >22min/GP (2nd most) to <19min/GP (5th most). So they were already playing him as a #5/6 D-man with PK time, which is fine.

Meanwhile, Chychrun is coming off of a relatively underwhelming season. Even if you pro-rate his offensive production to 82GP we're talking about 37pts, which is actually the 2nd highest output he's had in 5 years of playing >20min/GP. He also had a catastrophic -20 in just 47GP, which put him on pace for the 3rd worst +/- in the entire NHL. I'm not suggesting he's not a good player but there's nothing elite about that performance, so I'm not convinced he's worth this supposed 3-first round pick equivalent price tag... especially if it includes Thomson vs. Brannstrom.
- khawk

Spot on.

I don't understand why some Sens fans keep suggesting the names of Chris Tanev and Connor Murphy as options for the team on D. Tanev has a modified NTC (10 team no trade list) and likely wont waive it to go to Ottawa (the team hasn't made the playoffs in the last 4 years and isn't as close as Calgary to be a Cup contender). As for Murphy, he also owns a modified NTC and he's always hurt (he's already on the IR of the Hawks and the season hasn't started yet). So, I think the best thing for Dorion is to remain patient and giving opportunities to his young D-men (Sanderson, JBD, Thomson) to show what they can do in the NHL before making a trade.

For the many fans from others teams that say the Yotes are gong to get a haul for Jakob Chychrun, 4 first round pieces, you are dreaming!

Lets take a look back at the Erki Karlsson trade in which at the time he was a 2 time Norris Trophy, was one year off from being a top 3 player in the NHL and also almost single handedly led his team to the Cup Final. Chychrun isn't anywhere near close to Karlsson now.....plus the Sharks had a handshake agreement in place for a contract extension when the deal was made.

Ottawa got Josh Norris who at the time wasn't a big prospect, the Sens also got a unprotected 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, plus Balcers/Tierney and DeMelo. DeMelo was the only player that did anything of substance for the Sens on the ice, Tierney to a point I guess....but Ottawa needed cheap NHL bodies at the time to fill out their roster. Regardless, there's NO way AZ is getting the equivalent or four 1st round pieces.

I figured it would be easier to reply once to the many who have stated the Yotes are going to get a haul for a player that has accomplished very little in comparison to Karlsson.

For the many fans from others teams that say the Yotes are gong to get a haul for Jakob Chychrun, 4 first round pieces, you are dreaming!

Lets take a look back at the Erki Karlsson trade in which at the time he was a 2 time Norris Trophy, was one year off from being a top 3 player in the NHL and also almost single handedly led his team to the Cup Final. Chychrun isn't anywhere near close to Karlsson now.....plus the Sharks had a handshake agreement in place for a contract extension when the deal was made.

Ottawa got Josh Norris who at the time wasn't a big prospect, the Sens also got a unprotected 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, plus Balcers/Tierney and DeMelo. DeMelo was the only player that did anything of substance for the Sens on the ice, Tierney to a point I guess....but Ottawa needed cheap NHL bodies at the time to fill out their roster. Regardless, there's NO way AZ is getting the equivalent or four 1st round pieces.

I figured it would be easier to reply once to the many who have stated the Yotes are going to get a haul for a player that has accomplished very little in comparison to Karlsson.
- Kevin Francis

I think you are right.

I hope the Sens are able to acquire him for a fair price.

The team that I think may be lurking in the weeds is the Rangers.

They have some really good young players needing new contracts over the next couple of years and the Chychrun cap hit must be very appealing to them.

OTT does not need to get rid of Zeitsev even if they trade for Chych, they have the cap room for have both and can juts burry him the Belleville, the flames HAD to trade Monohan to get Kadri in, 2 different situations
- Mithos

They might be able to send him to the AHL for this season but i doubt they would want to do that for the next two seasons given they need to give raises to Zub, Stutzle, DeBrincat and maybe Pinto. Teams trying to compete for the playoffs don't want close to 4 million in dead cap space especially when they already have close to 5 million in dead cap space with buyouts and retained salary for next season.

The main point still stands. Having Zaitsev does not give the Sens more leverage in negotiations for another defenseman. They would lose leverage unless they can move Zaitsev at the same time as trading for that defenseman. Zaitsev is a cap dump and no team needs him and his contract. Very few teams can actually fit him in without giving salary back so they can set any price they want and stick to it.

I think Montreal caved with the deal with the Flames. They did get a 1st round pick but with so many restrictions on it. They should have asked for the 2023 1st unprotected and stuck to it. I doubt the other teams would have done it for less and Calgary would have had to pay it to some team to dump him. The Jackets ended up trading Bjorkstrand because teams all wanted a 1st for Nyquist and a 1st and top prospect to take Voracek. If Montreal held on they might have gotten it (unprotected) or Calgary might have had to trade someone they didn't want to trade (at a discount) to make room.

I think you are right.

I hope the Sens are able to acquire him for a fair price.

The team that I think may be lurking in the weeds is the Rangers.

They have some really good young players needing new contracts over the next couple of years and the Chychrun cap hit must be very appealing to them.
- spatso

At 245pm on trade deadline day they thought they had a deal in place....then they pivotted and picked up players from the Jets and Canucks last second. Lafreniere was the key piece in the deal going the other way, but cap issues for the Rangers is a big issue!

But like I said, no way these Yotes fans saying they will get a haul for him will EVER happen. Take a look at what Eichel and Seth Jones got.....

They might be able to send him to the AHL for this season but i doubt they would want to do that for the next two seasons given they need to give raises to Zub, Stutzle, DeBrincat and maybe Pinto. Teams trying to compete for the playoffs don't want close to 4 million in dead cap space especially when they already have close to 5 million in dead cap space with buyouts and retained salary for next season.

The main point still stands. Having Zaitsev does not give the Sens more leverage in negotiations for another defenseman. They would lose leverage unless they can move Zaitsev at the same time as trading for that defenseman. Zaitsev is a cap dump and no team needs him and his contract. Very few teams can actually fit him in without giving salary back so they can set any price they want and stick to it.

I think Montreal caved with the deal with the Flames. They did get a 1st round pick but with so many restrictions on it. They should have asked for the 2023 1st unprotected and stuck to it. I doubt the other teams would have done it for less and Calgary would have had to pay it to some team to dump him. The Jackets ended up trading Bjorkstrand because teams all wanted a 1st for Nyquist and a 1st and top prospect to take Voracek. If Montreal held on they might have gotten it (unprotected) or Calgary might have had to trade someone they didn't want to trade (at a discount) to make room.
- dcz28

zeitsev has 2 years left not 3, and MTL got a 1st round pick to take monohan, the speculations are which one they would get not whether they get one. Stu, Pinto and Sanderson are getting bridge, that is the only way to keep Cat, with or without Zeitsev

zeitsev has 2 years left not 3, and MTL got a 1st round pick to take monohan, the speculations are which one they would get not whether they get one. Stu, Pinto and Sanderson are getting bridge, that is the only way to keep Cat, with or without Zeitsev
- Mithos

The biggest team for teams that need stay at or get to the cap floor is that Zaitsev counts as 4.5M but only 2.5M out in cash with that 2M bonus being paid on July 1st. So really.....Ottawa doesn't need to add much to the deal with Zaitsev as only having to put out 2.5M for a capable bottom pairing D guy if placed in the right situation, he isn't too bad....just that he cant be going out there against the oppositions top 2 lines....then he gets exposed badly!

I don't understand why some Sens fans keep suggesting the names of Chris Tanev and Connor Murphy as options for the team on D. Tanev has a modified NTC (10 team no trade list) and likely wont waive it to go to Ottawa (the team hasn't made the playoffs in the last 4 years and isn't as close as Calgary to be a Cup contender). As for Murphy, he also owns a modified NTC and he's always hurt (he's already on the IR of the Hawks and the season hasn't started yet). So, I think the best thing for Dorion is to remain patient and giving opportunities to his young D-men (Sanderson, JBD, Thomson) to show what they can do in the NHL before making a trade.
- batman8990

The problem is that Smith will refuse to play the young D. He just won't. I said at the end of last season that the most important move for the Sens to make was to get rid of Smith but that wasn't going to happen because Dorion was going to need someone to fire if the team was not performing.

I said that even if they added McDavid up front they still weren't making the playoffs because their D is too weak and they needed to play their young D to find out what they've got before running around trading for stuff they won't need.

The same as last year when everyone was going on and on about getting a top C. A few of us were saying play Stutzle at C and the injuries forced Smith to do that and what do you know.

Patience is the key word for now but I'm afraid Dorion and Smith are going to screw things up badly.

zeitsev has 2 years left not 3, and MTL got a 1st round pick to take monohan, the speculations are which one they would get not whether they get one. Stu, Pinto and Sanderson are getting bridge, that is the only way to keep Cat, with or without Zeitsev
- Mithos

I never said Zaitsev had 3 years left. Again i said Montreal got a 1st but there are so many clauses on which and when they will get it. They should have said a 2023 or 2024 unprotected and stuck to that imo.

I'm not sure DeBrincat is going to get as much as people seem to think he will cost. Personally i think his numbers will dip this season when he isn't playing with Patrick Kane. Kane is still an elite playmaker and has a knack for inflating his linemates numbers. I don't think there is a player on the Sens that can do the same. I think DeBrincat ends up with 20 to 30 goals, 50 to 60 points this season. Not bad but not 8 or 9 million a year type of numbers.

I never said Zaitsev had 3 years left. Again i said Montreal got a 1st but there are so many clauses on which and when they will get it. They should have said a 2023 or 2024 unprotected and stuck to that imo.

I'm not sure DeBrincat is going to get as much as people seem to think he will cost. Personally i think his numbers will dip this season when he isn't playing with Patrick Kane. Kane is still an elite playmaker and has a knack for inflating his linemates numbers. I don't think there is a player on the Sens that can do the same. I think DeBrincat ends up with 20 to 30 goals, 50 to 60 points this season. Not bad but not 8 or 9 million a year type of numbers.
- dcz28

I would agree with you..... if the Sens didn't have a young stud in Stutzle AND a guy with over 600 assists in his career coming in. While I agree he may dip, I don't think 20-25 goals is possible if he plays over 80gp. This isn't Bobby Ryan

Other options..... from NSH, Dante Fabbro and Alexandre Carrier. Both can block shots and limit turnovers. These guys are both right hand shot D-men and with McDonagh coming in, Josi, Ekhom - they can afford to make a trade from a position of strength

A 3-team trade between Calgary, Ottawa, and Arizona might be an ideal situation. With the Flames having an exuberant amount of depth on defense, they could easily move a player out for some top-six help. We look pretty weak from a right-handed winger standpoint. If Chychrun, Hanifin, and a solid player from the Sens is in play, it could be exactly what everyone needs.

Calgary receives:
- Batherson/Stutzle
Ottawa receives:
Hanifin/Chychrun
Arizona receives:
High picks to make everything happen lol

In all seriousness, I think Ottawa will make an aggressive push for a young, contract friendly - with term , top 4 defenseman, and Hanifin/Chychrun could be the best options.

I never said Zaitsev had 3 years left. Again i said Montreal got a 1st but there are so many clauses on which and when they will get it. They should have said a 2023 or 2024 unprotected and stuck to that imo.

I'm not sure DeBrincat is going to get as much as people seem to think he will cost. Personally i think his numbers will dip this season when he isn't playing with Patrick Kane. Kane is still an elite playmaker and has a knack for inflating his linemates numbers. I don't think there is a player on the Sens that can do the same. I think DeBrincat ends up with 20 to 30 goals, 50 to 60 points this season. Not bad but not 8 or 9 million a year type of numbers.
- dcz28

This might be true.

But there is also the other end of possible outcomes. DeBrincat playing with Giroux and Stutzle should be exciting. It is possible DeBrincat has his best goal scoring year ever (+41) but will still trail Stutzle in overall points (+100).

I believe Stutzle, not DeBrincat will be the Sens top payed player after next year.

A 3-team trade between Calgary, Ottawa, and Arizona might be an ideal situation. With the Flames having an exuberant amount of depth on defense, they could easily move a player out for some top-six help. We look pretty weak from a right-handed winger standpoint. If Chychrun, Hanifin, and a solid player from the Sens is in play, it could be exactly what everyone needs.

Calgary receives:
- Batherson/Stutzle
Ottawa receives:
Hanifin/Chychrun
Arizona receives:
High picks to make everything happen lol

In all seriousness, I think Ottawa will make an aggressive push for a young, contract friendly - with term , top 4 defenseman, and Hanifin/Chychrun could be the best options.
- FlamesfaninLA

This has to be a HaHa right
Bath/Stutzle for Chychrun Hanifin 😂🤦‍♂️

This might be true.

But there is also the other end of possible outcomes. DeBrincat playing with Giroux and Stutzle should be exciting. It is possible DeBrincat has his best goal scoring year ever (+41) but will still trail Stutzle in overall points (+100).

I believe Stutzle, not DeBrincat will be the Sens top payed player after next year.
- spatso

How was the rest of Chicago's offense outside of Debrinicat / Kane? I admit I haven't followed them as closely in recent years.

Sure, you can't replace Kane, but as you said, Giroux and Stuzle are now slouches, and we're just scratching the surface of Stuzle's talent.

Teams's will also have to decide how to pair their defence vs Ottawa. Do you throw your top pairing against Stuzle / Cat, knowing on the next shift Ottawa will be sending out Tkachuk Norris Batherson?

This has to be a HaHa right
Bath/Stutzle for Chychrun Hanifin 😂🤦‍♂️
- sens4life1971

Read a twitter post this morning saying the final package coming back to the Sens from the Karlsson trade includes: Norris, Stutzle, Sogaard, Ostapchuck and Merilainen.

I don't have a lot of patience with people who put too much emphasis on what the immediate return needs to be on a trade. When the deal was done folks were distraught.

Ottawa (or another team) will pay a fair price for Chychrun. But, it will take a few years to discover if both sides made a good deal.

So many of us hated the Tkachuk pick at #4.