Overall I agree.
- mickel25

Unfortunately this regime is just delaying it. The only good thing is that when a new group comes in, if that ever happens, some of these contracts will be a couple years less term wise. And Fletcher might not be that bad at drafting either, some decent prospects with a chance to become NHL players.

Risto, Hayes, Deslaurier and Ellis are 100% untradeable without adding significant assets. That is $20mil on the cap for the next four years. You could trade Farabee, TK, Provy and Sanheim but if you are doing a quick turnaround you would probably keep them.

Simple answer is if they get Bedard in the draft than they have a quick way out. If not, you are looking at five years minimum before they consistently compete.
- mickel25

Why keep the same cast of players who are part of the losing? They have trade value. Time to move out the parts after numerous coaches.

Unfortunately this regime is just delaying it. The only good thing is that when a new group comes in, if that ever happens, some of these contracts will be a couple years less term wise. And Fletcher might not be that bad at drafting either, some decent prospects with a chance to become NHL players.
- ClaudeFather

Thought the same thing about Hextall's draft picks at one time

Why would anyone need you to or care if you admitted to the painfully obvious fact that the moves did not work out? That something that is plainly not in dispute. So your comment there doesn't make any sense. What you haven't done and refuse to do is admit how wrong you were. About pretty much everything. Compounded by the fact that you pretend you weren't and are now at the forefront of seeing what needs to be done. When in effect you're just a sheep following along with the masses because your actual rhetoric is not viable in any manner.

You're mistaken that I leap for joy that I was right but I was right. And you argued with me vociferously. Here is he evidence. This was said the day after the Atkinson aquisition

https://hockeybuzz.com/bo...p?thread_id=173820&page=2

"Or are you looking for the team to be on the path to becoming a true Cup contender with a wide open window? More than likely, the recent moves damaged that hope more than they helped it." MJL

You response

https://hockeybuzz.com/bo...p?thread_id=173820&page=3

"Sorry, I 1000% disagree with you on that latter point. CF just created a real window for this team to compete for the cup, similar to what Homer did back in 2007. I don't understand what he gave up that you think would damage their path to being a true contender?? What .. Myers? Hagg? The 13th pick?? Really?

CF just got rid of our worst players and replaced them with really good hockey players that can play for this team at a high level for another 3-5 years. That is the definition of a path to the Cup! jd250


You didn't have the knowledge to know then or now that Fletcher traded the better player in the Atkinson deal. Now a year and change later, you claim that Atkinson is no longer a top 6 forward. LOL


Created a real window for this team to compete for the Cup? A path to the Cup?

- MJL

I liked the moves Fletcher made in the 21' off season and was hopeful they would propel the team to take the next step towards building on the success of the 19' season. I figured that Covid, injuries and some staleness were major factors in why the Flyers had a bad 20' season and the changes would help. They didn't help as it turned out. Injuries were a major reason why as was AV losing the room, both things NO ONE could have foreseen. However it is a results oriented business and thus I was wrong as it turned out, the changes did not help.

However NONE of those changes sunk this franchise or set it back significantly. Yandle, Thompson and Jones were on a 1 year deals, Risto could have been traded at the deadline, Ellis could just be put on LTIR if he cannot play, Atkinson is a better fit for this team than Jake. The problem with this team RIGHT NOW is the moves Fletcher made or didn't make at the 21' trade deadline and this off-season. Those I believe are what has set this franchise back, and that is why I NO LONGER support Fletcher as GM of this team.

You didn't have the knowledge to know then or now that Fletcher traded the better player in the Atkinson deal. Now a year and change later, you claim that Atkinson is no longer a top 6 forward. LOL
- MJL

One player had 6 goals the entire season, the other player had 23 goals, but yet in your mind 6 goals is better than 23 goals

100%, they’ve built something. The Flyers haven’t built anything in a decade. Hextall tried to do something, but the collection of players just wasn’t good enough. The Ottawa core of young guys is very solid.
- ClaudeFather

The Flyers have some good young player to help build with. Unfortunately the environment created by management has lessened the appearance of their value. If you take any one of Provorov, Sanheim, Hart, Konecny, Farabee and potentially even Frost. Place them in a better environment, they would be players that Flyers fans would have a higher view of in my opinion.

One player had 6 goals the entire season, the other player had 23 goals, but yet in your mind 6 goals is better than 23 goals
- jd250

Well we only look at goals though right? Never mind anything else.



If you did look at anything else, you would see that Voracek's assist totals and playmaking still has him among the elite playmaking forwards in the league. Despite Voracek's poor shooting year, he still makes a bigger impact on the game than Atkinson does. That being said, I still view Atkinson as a top 6 forward and with he right player, can still score at the 25-30 goal level. Unlike you who now a year later, after slobbering over the move, now sees him as a 3rd line line player.

Are you that uninformed and lacking in knowledge to only look at one aspect? Why am I asking that question. Of course you are.

I liked the moves Fletcher made in the 21' off season and was hopeful they would propel the team to take the next step towards building on the success of the 19' season. I figured that Covid, injuries and some staleness were major factors in why the Flyers had a bad 20' season and the changes would help. They didn't help as it turned out. Injuries were a major reason why as was AV losing the room, both things NO ONE could have foreseen. However it is a results oriented business and thus I was wrong as it turned out, the changes did not help.



- jd250

No, you weren't hopeful. You declared that Fletcher put them on a path to the Cup. You stated that it was the definition of a path to the Cup. I foresaw that they weren't the the right moves and I provided to you the evidence. You still can't admit it. LOL

However NONE of those changes sunk this franchise or set it back significantly. Yandle, Thompson and Jones were on a 1 year deals, Risto could have been traded at the deadline, Ellis could just be put on LTIR if he cannot play, Atkinson is a better fit for this team than Jake. The problem with this team RIGHT NOW is the moves Fletcher made or didn't make at the 21' trade deadline and this off-season. Those I believe are what has set this franchise back, and that is why I NO LONGER support Fletcher as GM of this team.
- jd250

It's completely embarrassing for you that you still can't see the damage that Fletcher has done. Do I really have to explain to you why Ristolainen wasn't traded at the deadline? If Ellis is put on LTIR, what does that mean? It means that a bottom feeder team is over the cap! That doesn't set it back significantly? Atkinson is not a better fit than Voracek. Never was. You still don't get it. You still can't understand the 21 deadline. I feel sorry for you for how clueless you are.


Other posters ask me why I waste my time refuting a poster who is essentially "dead" in terms of credibility. I guess I just find it entertaining.

Numerous, too many to mention fan bases will and already have.
- MJL

Oh fraud there you go. I guess you forget how for years I said it takes 10 years to do a full cleanse and rebuild with multiple layers of turnover and gave kings cup teams as example and you roasted me along with some others saying NO FAN BASE WOULD ACCEPT A 10 year rebuild.

Well we only look at goals though right? Never mind anything else.



If you did look at anything else, you would see that Voracek's assist totals and playmaking still has him among the elite playmaking forwards in the league. Despite Voracek's poor shooting year, he still makes a bigger impact on the game than Atkinson does. That being said, I still view Atkinson as a top 6 forward and with he right player, can still score at the 25-30 goal level. Unlike you who now a year later, after slobbering over the move, now sees him as a 3rd line line player.

Are you that uninformed and lacking in knowledge to only look at one aspect? Why am I asking that question. Of course you are.
- MJL

Ok, lets look at other things. Atkinson has a shoot first mentality, kills penalties, is better on the forecheck and is a better locker room guy. Jake skates around and passes the puck. I'll take Cam thank you very much!

No, you weren't hopeful. You declared that Fletcher put them on a path to the Cup. You stated that it was the definition of a path to the Cup. I foresaw that they weren't the the right moves and I provided to you the evidence. You still can't admit it. LOL


It's completely embarrassing for you that you still can't see the damage that Fletcher has done. Do I really have to explain to you why Ristolainen wasn't traded at the deadline? If Ellis is put on LTIR, what does that mean? It means that a bottom feeder team is over the cap! That doesn't set it back significantly? Atkinson is not a better fit than Voracek. Never was. You still don't get it. You still can't understand the 21 deadline. I feel sorry for you for how clueless you are.


Other posters ask me why I waste my time refuting a poster who is essentially "dead" in terms of credibility. I guess I just find it entertaining.
- MJL

You are such a joke its truly astonishing! If I had no credibility you wouldn't be wasting 1 second of your time responding to my posts. You demonstrate this by never responding to some posters on this forum, even after they take shot after shot at you. Instead you seem to spend oodles of time trying to discredit me, so I will take your repeated accusations as just more evidence that I have a lot more credibility than you do! If you want to feel sorry for someone, look in the mirror.

Oh fraud there you go. I guess you forget how for years I said it takes 10 years to do a full cleanse and rebuild with multiple layers of turnover and gave kings cup teams as example and you roasted me along with some others saying NO FAN BASE WOULD ACCEPT A 10 year rebuild.
- Stayin alive

You apparently can't figure out that I'm not talking about what a fan base would accept. Nor am I stating that a fan base would or wouldn't accept it. Try again.

Soo, you think there is a quick way out of this?
- ClaudeFather

Absolutely not. Honestly like I said years and years ago that this team wouldn’t win with g/Jake/coots (because they needed lots more) this team will never win with this young core now (hart/bee/provy/etc.

Because if they actually were to rebuild and purge the older players (Ellis/Jvr/coots/Hayes etc it would require time for contracts to expire or buyouts or trades most likely adding assets to rid contract or some mixture. By the time that occurs the younger core now would be hitting that prime age and contracts

At best it would be like when g/Jake hit prime and got huge contracts without enough talent to truly contend for cup

That’s when you have to turn roster over again.

But this team doesn’t get it. They’d roll with it like they did g /Jake etc and other players too with false believe they could pull off some cup miracle.

I mean I guess it could and does happen about every 25 years or so (lightning in a bottle ) but not really something that should be the plan.

This poop team can’t even take the first step.
Admit they need rebuild. Instead they sign turning 30 year old coots to 8 year deal. Trade for 30 year old sidekick Ellis with long term left. Trade for nhl borderline player risto and extend. List goes on and on.

Until whole front office purged of these tools this team will not win cup again.

Ok, lets look at other things. Atkinson has a shoot first mentality, kills penalties, is better on the forecheck and is a better locker room guy. Jake skates around and passes the puck. I'll take Cam thank you very much!
- jd250

There is nothing special about Atkinson's PK ability. Voracek is better on the PP. Atkinson is not better on the forecheck. You bought into the silly narratve that Voracek is a bad locker room guy. I guess that plays into your foolish belief that the moves changed the culture of the team. One player has an elite skill. The other does not. Voracek is the better player.

You are such a joke its truly astonishing! If I had no credibility you wouldn't be wasting 1 second of your time responding to my posts. You demonstrate this by never responding to some posters on this forum, even after they take shot after shot at you. Instead you seem to spend oodles of time trying to discredit me, so I will take your repeated accusations as just more evidence that I have a lot more credibility than you do! If you want to feel sorry for someone, look in the mirror.
- jd250

I respond to your posts because I find it entertaining watching you continue to destroy yourself. I should ignore you but I find it just too funny. I don't try to discredit you. You do that yourself with every post you make. The evidence is clear. They aren't accusations. They are simply facts.

Ok, lets look at other things. Atkinson has a shoot first mentality, kills penalties, is better on the forecheck and is a better locker room guy. Jake skates around and passes the puck. I'll take Cam thank you very much!
- jd250

Neither player matters in the grand scheme of things of your trying to win cup with this team. While I like cam the extra year on contract compared to Jake just delays the inevitable. Although his contract probably easier to move at some point but could have to retain or add assets to move. Maybe not. Either way it’s a moot point with these players.

You apparently can't figure out that I'm not talking about what a fan base would accept. Nor am I stating that a fan base would or wouldn't accept it. Try again.
- MJL

Ummmm ok fraud. Mjl~” 100%no fan base would accept a 10 year rebuild” stated by you the fraud many times over the YEARS I used kings as blueprint of what flyers needed to do


But I guess that’s you the fraud NOT stating what a fan base would or wouldn’t accept.

Wrong as usual

More rope for you

Embarrassing yourself

They will be in cap hell for 3 seasons. After this season, they will have 14 million less to spend on their 7 free agents (one of them being Dumba) in the 23-24 season and 14 million less again on free agents in the 24-25 season.

They are hoping their 37 year old goalie does not break down.
- WhiskeyMan

Yes you’re right they for sure are taking a hit on cap now with those buyouts. But it also allowed them the ability to resign Kaprizov (elite player) and make moves to compete now and future.
Not making the moves would’ve left them cap problems anyways and probably having to lose more assets to sign Kaprizov and others. Probably effecting them longer term than the buyouts. Maybe not. At least they are doing something and having results that have a chance to work or give way to another path relatively quickly.


While team like flyers are laughingstock and timeline pushed so for out into future they’ve made organization irrelevant.

Minny is good example of purge. Bring in guy that clearly sees those contracts and willing to do anything to rid them instead of doubling down on past mistakes. Will it work? Probably not. But at least they have a shot. Or at least a chance at a better shot pretty shortly you can honestly say if they play cards right in a couple years look out for the wild.

You can honestly say for the long future look out for the flyers ….
Maybe winning draft lottery

I’d trade flyers with any other team in league

The flyers are the worst by far.

Well we only look at goals though right? Never mind anything else.



If you did look at anything else, you would see that Voracek's assist totals and playmaking still has him among the elite playmaking forwards in the league. Despite Voracek's poor shooting year, he still makes a bigger impact on the game than Atkinson does. That being said, I still view Atkinson as a top 6 forward and with he right player, can still score at the 25-30 goal level. Unlike you who now a year later, after slobbering over the move, now sees him as a 3rd line line player.

Are you that uninformed and lacking in knowledge to only look at one aspect? Why am I asking that question. Of course you are.
- MJL

What does Jake bring besides “playmaker”

Nothing.

Cam overall everyday of the week

Ok, lets look at other things. Atkinson has a shoot first mentality, kills penalties, is better on the forecheck and is a better locker room guy. Jake skates around and passes the puck. I'll take Cam thank you very much!
- jd250

The funniest thing is mjl will die on that “playmaker” hill it’s all he has. He acts like Jake is one of the best in the league. He’s not. At his best he’s a nice playmaker and any team would want him contract pending but he’s far from elite or really top end player.

Ummmm ok fraud. Mjl~” 100%no fan base would accept a 10 year rebuild” stated by you the fraud many times over the YEARS I used kings as blueprint of what flyers needed to do


But I guess that’s you the fraud NOT stating what a fan base would or wouldn’t accept.

Wrong as usual

More rope for you

Embarrassing yourself
- Stayin alive

I have not denied at any point that I may have made that statement in the past. What are you talking about fool? Try again.

What does Jake bring besides “playmaker”

Nothing.

Cam overall everyday of the week
- Stayin alive

Atkinson is not a better player.

The funniest thing is mjl will die on that “playmaker” hill it’s all he has. He acts like Jake is one of the best in the league. He’s not. At his best he’s a nice playmaker and any team would want him contract pending but he’s far from elite or really top end player.
- Stayin alive

Voracek is still an elite playmaking forward in the league. He ranked 13th in the league in assists among NHL forwards.

The Flyers have some good young player to help build with. Unfortunately the environment created by management has lessened the appearance of their value. If you take any one of Provorov, Sanheim, Hart, Konecny, Farabee and potentially even Frost. Place them in a better environment, they would be players that Flyers fans would have a higher view of in my opinion.
- MJL

Yes, very true. At the same time, Provy and TK have had exceptional seasons here. But to your point, he environment has been so unstable over the years it’s hard to have any consistency. Sanheim has been quietly a consistent, solid player.

Voracek is still an elite playmaking forward in the league. He ranked 13th in the league in assists among NHL forwards.
- MJL

Too bad other GM's didn't feel this way as look at what the return turned out to be for an elite playmaking forward. I know you will talk about his high cap hit. If he is elite than that cap hit isn't that high.