Voracek is still an elite playmaking forward in the league. He ranked 13th in the league in assists among NHL forwards.
- MJL

Shiver me tinders 13th in the league in assist.

Mjl ~elite

Yes, very true. At the same time, Provy and TK have had exceptional seasons here. But to your point, he environment has been so unstable over the years it’s hard to have any consistency. Sanheim has been quietly a consistent, solid player.
- ClaudeFather

That's why I want the Flyers to keep some of the older veteran players versus others who want to or wanted players traded. Such as Couturier. At some point, the Flyers have to fix this cycle. Instead of bringing in young player and expecting them to be the savior. Bring them in and play in lesser roles. Let them grow into taking on bigger chunks. The Flyers failure over years to draft and develop defenseman is a big part in why Provorov has struggled in my view. He has had to be the Flyers top defenseman since he was 19-20 years old. Instead of breaking in at a lower role. I'm convinced that has hurt him as a player. If you trade Couturier, yea, you could get some key assets for the future. I don't think anyone who wants to do that is wrong. If you do that, then Hayes is 1C and a player like Frost now has to be the 2C. More responsibility and more pressure.

Other teams such as Carolina bring in players slower and let them grow. They have some young players that are going to be really good. Same in Florida such as Lundell. Wait and see how he grows this year. The Flyers need to end the cycle and start building a foundation and a supportive environment for young players.

Atkinson is not a better player.
- MJL

Overall … yes he is…

Atkinson is not a better player.
- MJL

Here the funny thing and what makes you a fraud.
1) you like to use to defend your position like all these attributes for coots that make him so great. And you list on and on because it fits your narrative

2) but then refuse to use same metric when debating others. You say Jake is elite(he’s not) playmaker and that’s all you got. You list his assist.

3) we’ll go look at stats. Cam has more goals in almost 350 less games. Averages roughly .65 ppg compared to jakes roughly.75 ppg so he’s basically the same offensively one gets more goals one get more assist

Which is more important? Debatable I guess

Maybe slight edge either way depending on which you prefer overall goals or assist. And I guess depending on team player is on and all

Now you add in any intangibles like you love to do with coots and not just use offensive stats.

Cam is a plus player in career jake is a minus player in career

Cam plays pk Jake does not.

Who scored shorties? Cam not Jake

Who actually appears to skate and give a honest effort cam or Jake?

Sorry but overall using your method of all the intangibles like coots cam is CLEARLY the better overall player

That's why I want the Flyers to keep some of the older veteran players versus others who want to or wanted players traded. Such as Couturier. At some point, the Flyers have to fix this cycle. Instead of bringing in young player and expecting them to be the savior. Bring them in and play in lesser roles. Let them grow into taking on bigger chunks. The Flyers failure over years to draft and develop defenseman is a big part in why Provorov has struggled in my view. He has had to be the Flyers top defenseman since he was 19-20 years old. Instead of breaking in at a lower role. I'm convinced that has hurt him as a player. If you trade Couturier, yea, you could get some key assets for the future. I don't think anyone who wants to do that is wrong. If you do that, then Hayes is 1C and a player like Frost now has to be the 2C. More responsibility and more pressure.

Other teams such as Carolina bring in players slower and let them grow. They have some young players that are going to be really good. Same in Florida such as Lundell. Wait and see how he grows this year. The Flyers need to end the cycle and start building a foundation and a supportive environment for young players.
- MJL

As cap expert you are you should know and love coots for next 8 years. Could’ve easily brought older mentor type player for a lot less and less term and maximized coots return. But doesn’t fit your narrative

Here the funny thing and what makes you a fraud.
1) you like to use to defend your position like all these attributes for coots that make him so great. And you list on and on because it fits your narrative

2) but then refuse to use same metric when debating others. You say Jake is elite(he’s not) playmaker and that’s all you got. You list his assist.

3) we’ll go look at stats. Cam has more goals in almost 350 less games. Averages roughly .65 ppg compared to jakes roughly.75 ppg so he’s basically the same offensively one gets more goals one get more assist

Which is more important? Debatable I guess

Maybe slight edge either way depending on which you prefer overall goals or assist. And I guess depending on team player is on and all

Now you add in any intangibles like you love to do with coots and not just use offensive stats.

Cam is a plus player in career jake is a minus player in career

Cam plays pk Jake does not.

Who scored shorties? Cam not Jake

Who actually appears to skate and give a honest effort cam or Jake?

Sorry but overall using your method of all the intangibles like coots cam is CLEARLY the better overall player
- Stayin alive

So the basis of your argument is some absurd claim of what I do. That Atkinson plays on the PK and that Atkinson appears to skate and give an honest effort. How did Voracek wind up top 5 in Flyers franchise history in assists and top 10 in points in franchise history. By not skating and giving an honest effort?

You have failed to make an intelligent argument.

As cap expert you are you should know and love coots for next 8 years. Could’ve easily brought older mentor type player for a lot less and less term and maximized coots return. But doesn’t fit your narrative
- Stayin alive

It seems as though you lack the reading comprehension to recognize the part of my post where I said that I don't think those who wanted to trade Couturier are wrong.

Shiver me tinders 13th in the league in assist.

Mjl ~elite
- Stayin alive

The elite only had 12 more points, playing a few more games than Cam last year. Guessing seeing more PP time as well. Add the cap savings.

It seems as though you lack the reading comprehension to recognize the part of my post where I said that I don't think those who wanted to trade Couturier are wrong.
- MJL

So you agree they should’ve traded coots.

That's why I want the Flyers to keep some of the older veteran players versus others who want to or wanted players traded. Such as Couturier. At some point, the Flyers have to fix this cycle. Instead of bringing in young player and expecting them to be the savior. Bring them in and play in lesser roles. Let them grow into taking on bigger chunks. The Flyers failure over years to draft and develop defenseman is a big part in why Provorov has struggled in my view. He has had to be the Flyers top defenseman since he was 19-20 years old. Instead of breaking in at a lower role. I'm convinced that has hurt him as a player. If you trade Couturier, yea, you could get some key assets for the future. I don't think anyone who wants to do that is wrong. If you do that, then Hayes is 1C and a player like Frost now has to be the 2C. More responsibility and more pressure.

Other teams such as Carolina bring in players slower and let them grow. They have some young players that are going to be really good. Same in Florida such as Lundell. Wait and see how he grows this year. The Flyers need to end the cycle and start building a foundation and a supportive environment for young players.
- MJL

Agreed. Before Provorov earned a job here, our defense was terrible even with Ghost on the roster. Provorov steps in as a 20 year old and automatically was expected to be the savior by playing 25 minutes a night. Fast forward to today as his play tips a little without the support of a reliable defensive partner, suddenly in the minds of fans he’s not the player we expected. A disappointment. This was never fair to the player himself.

I’m also one of two minds when it comes to Couturier. A healthy Couturier could help any contending team and give us a return we should all be satisfied with but we also need players with experience and can play within a suited role, as Couturier has his entire career. Couturier is a vet but he’s not old. He’ll be 30 late this year.

There are players I would move that we’re doing no favors by keeping and likely won’t have success here because they’re supporting players. Scott Laughton, Cam Atkinson and Travis Konency in my opinion can help another team and will do very little to help us.

So the basis of your argument is some absurd claim of what I do. That Atkinson plays on the PK and that Atkinson appears to skate and give an honest effort. How did Voracek wind up top 5 in Flyers franchise history in assists and top 10 in points in franchise history. By not skating and giving an honest effort?

You have failed to make an intelligent argument.
- MJL

Newsflash where does cam rate on Columbus team history? Means nada
Also relatively speaking philly team leaders aren’t really that impressive. I mean team leader 1200 points. What made clarke great? His points? His assist? Or his overall play? Who resembles clarke more Jake or cam?

Sorry but gotta add my favorite player was brindy. And it wasn’t because he could score or set up a goal alone. Give me the try hard gives a (frank) player all day long

Agreed. Before Provorov earned a job here, our defense was terrible even with Ghost on the roster. Provorov steps in as a 20 year old and automatically was expected to be the savior by playing 25 minutes a night. Fast forward to today as his play tips a little without the support of a reliable defensive partner, suddenly in the minds of fans he’s not the player we expected. A disappointment. This was never fair to the player himself.

I’m also one of two minds when it comes to Couturier. A healthy Couturier could help any contending team and give us a return we should all be satisfied with but we also need players with experience and can play within a suited role, as Couturier has his entire career. Couturier is a vet but he’s not old. He’ll be 30 late this year.

There are players I would move that we’re doing no favors by keeping and likely won’t have success here because they’re supporting players. Scott Laughton, Cam Atkinson and Travis Konency in my opinion can help another team and will do very little to help us.
- SuperSchennBros

Sorry but 30 going into 8 year contract is as bad as it gets.

Unless that’s for bonafide superstar surefire hall of fame player.

Which coots isn’t

In cap world you just can’t do it. The negatives almost always will outweigh the positives.


As far as provy goes they put themselves in that position. They had no flexibility to make a move really even if they wanted too.

Unfortunately this team continues on same path. Those that have followed team for decades see this. At some point you just have to call a spade a spade.

Purge needed.

Retire all the past.

The funny thing is they hang on to past to try to sell and profit when so much more could be made by turning new leaf.

Rebrand this damn team already.

That's why I want the Flyers to keep some of the older veteran players versus others who want to or wanted players traded. Such as Couturier. At some point, the Flyers have to fix this cycle. Instead of bringing in young player and expecting them to be the savior. Bring them in and play in lesser roles. Let them grow into taking on bigger chunks. The Flyers failure over years to draft and develop defenseman is a big part in why Provorov has struggled in my view. He has had to be the Flyers top defenseman since he was 19-20 years old. Instead of breaking in at a lower role. I'm convinced that has hurt him as a player. If you trade Couturier, yea, you could get some key assets for the future. I don't think anyone who wants to do that is wrong. If you do that, then Hayes is 1C and a player like Frost now has to be the 2C. More responsibility and more pressure.

Other teams such as Carolina bring in players slower and let them grow. They have some young players that are going to be really good. Same in Florida such as Lundell. Wait and see how he grows this year. The Flyers need to end the cycle and start building a foundation and a supportive environment for young players.
- MJL

Who's fault was that?

So you agree they should’ve traded coots.
- Stayin alive

Not what I said.

You can't even figure out that the post in question had nothing to do with praising Hextall. It had to do with the Flyers abandoning a patient draft and develop process and going back to a try and win every year process and trying to trade and sign their way to contention. Which only set them back.

You just continually embarrass yourself.
- MJL

The flyers would have stuck Hextall if the draft and develop was working under him, but seeing his draft picks I'm sure they thought we cant have this guy in control anymore

Newsflash where does cam rate on Columbus team history? Means nada
Also relatively speaking philly team leaders aren’t really that impressive. I mean team leader 1200 points. What made clarke great? His points? His assist? Or his overall play? Who resembles clarke more Jake or cam?
- Stayin alive

Voracek's rankings in franchise history dispels any myth that he did not skate hard or play hard. Any comparison attempt with Clarke is idiotic.

Here the funny thing and what makes you a fraud.
1) you like to use to defend your position like all these attributes for coots that make him so great. And you list on and on because it fits your narrative

2) but then refuse to use same metric when debating others. You say Jake is elite(he’s not) playmaker and that’s all you got. You list his assist.

3) we’ll go look at stats. Cam has more goals in almost 350 less games. Averages roughly .65 ppg compared to jakes roughly.75 ppg so he’s basically the same offensively one gets more goals one get more assist

Which is more important? Debatable I guess

Maybe slight edge either way depending on which you prefer overall goals or assist. And I guess depending on team player is on and all

Now you add in any intangibles like you love to do with coots and not just use offensive stats.

Cam is a plus player in career jake is a minus player in career

Cam plays pk Jake does not.

Who scored shorties? Cam not Jake

Who actually appears to skate and give a honest effort cam or Jake?

Sorry but overall using your method of all the intangibles like coots cam is CLEARLY the better overall player
- Stayin alive

Thats his MO, he just wants to constantly argue. He saves past quote that someone says...like who does that? And who isnt entitled to change their mind?
He is the grumpy old get off my lawn guy.

Sorry but 30 going into 8 year contract is as bad as it gets.

Unless that’s for bonafide superstar surefire hall of fame player.

Which coots isn’t

In cap world you just can’t do it. The negatives almost always will outweigh the positives.


As far as provy goes they put themselves in that position. They had no flexibility to make a move really even if they wanted too.

Unfortunately this team continues on same path. Those that have followed team for decades see this. At some point you just have to call a spade a spade.

Purge needed.

Retire all the past.

The funny thing is they hang on to past to try to sell and profit when so much more could be made by turning new leaf.

Rebrand this damn team already.
- Stayin alive

It truly is amazing the power that be can not see what this organization has become.

Getting bad press everywhere. They are fully aware of this bad press yet in their eyes they are still doing it the right way. Seeing Briere's comments tells me this will still be a very long process before any real change is made.

The sooner they crash and burn the better in the long term.

The flyers would have stuck Hextall if the draft and develop was working under him, but seeing his draft picks I'm sure they thought we cant have this guy in control anymore
- bradster

His firing had nothing to do with his picks development. He was fired 4 years ago. Those players were babies.

It truly is amazing the power that be can not see what this organization has become.

Getting bad press everywhere. They are fully aware of this bad press yet in their eyes they are still doing it the right way. Seeing Briere's comments tells me this will still be a very long process before any real change is made.

The sooner they crash and burn the better in the long term.
- furio16

Lol they’ll find another hole to dig. It’s the flyers way

There is nothing special about Atkinson's PK ability. Voracek is better on the PP. Atkinson is not better on the forecheck. You bought into the silly narratve that Voracek is a bad locker room guy. I guess that plays into your foolish belief that the moves changed the culture of the team. One player has an elite skill. The other does not. Voracek is the better player.
- MJL

Jake didn't want to play here any longer, that is a FACT. He needed to be moved and he was. Fletcher in this instance did a nice job in getting a good player back with less overall cap hit. And I would still rather have Atkinson on my team than Jake, the only way I get a shot on goal is when I pass the puck to the opposing goalie, Voracek!

I respond to your posts because I find it entertaining watching you continue to destroy yourself. I should ignore you but I find it just too funny. I don't try to discredit you. You do that yourself with every post you make. The evidence is clear. They aren't accusations. They are simply facts.
- MJL

And yet here you are still responding to my posts Just more proof to what I said!

The funniest thing is mjl will die on that “playmaker” hill it’s all he has. He acts like Jake is one of the best in the league. He’s not. At his best he’s a nice playmaker and any team would want him contract pending but he’s far from elite or really top end player.
- Stayin alive

You know what, I would be a top assist guy too if I all I had to do is pass the puck to Laine on the power-play! He talks about Jake being better than Atkinson on the PP, yet last season who did Atkinson have to work with on the PP?? If he wants to die on the Jake Voracek hill, I am happy to watch him do so

What does Jake bring besides “playmaker”

Nothing.

Cam overall everyday of the week
- Stayin alive

All of Jake's deficiencies more than trump his play making abilities.